A Realistic View at 2019: Part I

[BillyWilliams]

That s*** stopped long ago. You need to pull your ass out of the past.

 

Yeah, it conveniently stopped when you guys started doing it..............

[Slasher9]

doing what?

yankees still outspend the red sox. i mean unless you are doing a 1 year sample size?

[dgalehouse]

What John Henry is doing and what George Steinbrenner did is what every owner should do . They are all billionaires. The fans are paying the freight . Give them something they can enjoy and appreciate. You can't simply " buy a championship " if everyone else is also going all in . The blame is not on the Steinbrenners and Henrys . It is on many of the other owners.

[Bellhorn04]

Yeah, it conveniently stopped when you guys started doing it..............

 

So 15-20 years ago. Like I said...

[Maxbialystock]

Yeah, it conveniently stopped when you guys started doing it..............

 

Me, I think the salaries for the top players and some others are absolutely insane, but I also think it's a business decision which can sometimes be dumb because you are paying for baseball players who are notoriously unreliable performers if only because of the risk of injury. You've got Ellsbury (and others before him), but we've had our share--like Sandoval and HanRam (and others).

 

I never resented the Yankees spending because I was sure they had more money--they are sitting on a gold mine, the largest city in the country at 8.6 million people--to say nothing of those 27 championships.

 

But my question for Yankees fans is how they can be happy with owners who can't seem to convert that huge population gold mine into being competitive--since John Henry took over in 2002--with the Boston Red Sox, whose city has a population of 685K. Every year the Yankees outdraw the Sox, but guess which team has the four World Series wins since 2002 and which team has one?

 

Also, Moonslav in particular never lets us forget, especially on this thread, what the cost of players is now and will be in the near future. Indeed, the back and forth on that topic alone sometimes takes over this thread. As I said, I hate the high cost of players, but I can also see that those salaries do sometimes get results--like 108 regular wins and taking 11 of 14 postseason games (including the 104 win Astros and 100 win Yankees).

[jacksonianmarch]

I agree, but you are wrong about several years running. Last year was the first time we were number 1 in spending. We are likely to make that two in a row, unless someone spends heavily this summer. 2 years vs 15 years in a row is a little different, don't you think?

 

Almost every Sox fan lambasted Yankee fans for "buying championships."

 

My point with the Sox was about going forward. Being the highest paid team for a year or two is no where near what the Yanks were, but by not resetting soon, I was fearing that we'd approach the Yankee record of decades of blowing other teams away in spending (by much more than the Sox.)

 

I've been thinking we'd reset. Now, I'm not so sure. If we keep spending like the Yanks did (on free agents or whatever), then the argument is sound, and I agree.

 

2018: Sox (SFG $27M behind)

2017: LAD (NYY $31M- BOS $32M behind NYY!!!!)

2016: LAD (NYY $10M- BOS $31M behind NYY!!!)

2015: LAD (NYY$53M- BOS $32M behing NYY!!!)

2014: LAD (NYY $32M- BOS 4th $41M behind NYY!!!!)

2013: NYY (LAD $12M- BOS $78M behing NYY and WS Champs!)

2012: NYY (PHI $23M- BOS $24M behind NYY!)

2011: NYY (PHI $29M- BOS $40M behind NYY!!!!)

2010: NYY (BOS $44M!!!!)

2009: NYY (NYM $76M!!!!!- BOD behind NYY by $79M!!!!)

2008: NYY (NYM $72M!!!!- BOS $$76M!!!!!)

2007: NYY (BOS $46M behind and a ring!!!!)

2006: NYY (BOS $74M!!!!)

2005: NYY (BOS $84M!!!!)

2004: NYY (BOS $57M!!! and a ring)

2003: NYY (NYM $35M- BOS 6th and $53M behing NYY)

The Yanks led the league for 4 years (199-2002)

1998 BLA led the Yanks by $6M.

 

 

15 straight years the Yanks blew away the others.

 

The Sox are on their way to leading the league for 2 years in a row by $27M last year and less than $20M this year.

 

 

And all that spending only bought us one title from 01-13. We got too top heavy and didn’t have the renewable farm talent needed to suppress the values and get prime production. We got production for our money, but we were paying prime dollars for post prime production

[moonslav59]

But one doesn't have to have the highest payroll to be viewed as "buying" a championship.

 

And for the record, I have no problem with it.

 

I just think it's silly that you want to be viewed "differently".

 

When a team outspends all other teams for 15 straight years with 10 of them by more than $22M, 8 by more than $35M and 5 by more than $55M, yes, I think that's much different from a team on their way to leading the league by $27M and then (likely) less than $20M.

 

The Yanks outspent the Sox by

32

31

32

41

78- we won

34

40

44

79

76

46- we won

74

84

57- we won

35

 

No way is that the same as

27

~20

[jacksonianmarch]

What John Henry is doing and what George Steinbrenner did is what every owner should do . They are all billionaires. The fans are paying the freight . Give them something they can enjoy and appreciate. You can't simply " buy a championship " if everyone else is also going all in . The blame is not on the Steinbrenners and Henrys . It is on many of the other owners.

 

You need to time it right. Henry and the Sox absolutely did, and kudos to them. They had a farm system that everyone was jealous of. The Yanks made it a point years in advance that they were going to reset. The Dodgers quietly reset as well. When the two cash titans in the league stayed back and waited out their big contracts, DD struck by getting prime players for either big money or big prospects. The Sox were in a different place. Outside of two ill fated contracts in Pablo and Hanley, the Sox were in a pretty good place financially. They didn’t rebuild, the reloaded. Not every team is ready to add star talent and succeed. Henry saw the window and hired DD to execute it. Now, the yanks reload is complete and their financial picture is improving as the Sox window is nearing its end and their financial picture is cloudier. It was a good move. I also think Henry asked himself why he should be on the same timeline as the Yanks. He’s seen that narrative before and decided to jump the gun and he won

[moonslav59]

And all that spending only bought us one title from 01-13. We got too top heavy and didn’t have the renewable farm talent needed to suppress the values and get prime production. We got production for our money, but we were paying prime dollars for post prime production

 

You have to admit, winning it all while spending less than the Yanks and Dodgers should feel better than winning it all while outspending everyone by $27M or more, right?

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Henry decided that he wasn't going to let Cherrington's mistakes hold back this team. The Red Sox had 40 million in dead money last year with Sandoval and Ramirez's contracts, not to mention the money that the Red Sox were paying Castillo (didn't count toward luxury tax, but the money was still coming out of Henry's pocket).

[jacksonianmarch]

You have to admit, winning it all while spending less than the Yanks and Dodgers should feel better than winning it all while outspending everyone by $27M or more, right?

 

Flags fly forever. I don’t care what the payroll was

[Maxbialystock]

You need to time it right. Henry and the Sox absolutely did, and kudos to them. They had a farm system that everyone was jealous of. The Yanks made it a point years in advance that they were going to reset. The Dodgers quietly reset as well. When the two cash titans in the league stayed back and waited out their big contracts, DD struck by getting prime players for either big money or big prospects. The Sox were in a different place. Outside of two ill fated contracts in Pablo and Hanley, the Sox were in a pretty good place financially. They didn’t rebuild, the reloaded. Not every team is ready to add star talent and succeed. Henry saw the window and hired DD to execute it. Now, the yanks reload is complete and their financial picture is improving as the Sox window is nearing its end and their financial picture is cloudier. It was a good move. I also think Henry asked himself why he should be on the same timeline as the Yanks. He’s seen that narrative before and decided to jump the gun and he won

 

All good points.

[moonslav59]

Flags fly forever. I don’t care what the payroll was

 

Spoken like a true Yankee fan.

[BillyWilliams]

Spoken like a true Yankee fan.

 

So are you embarrassed about last year's title because of your payroll?

[mvp 78]

Spoken like a true Yankee fan.

 

C'mon man... If you keep up this line of thinking you're going to have to find a new team.

[Kimmi]

You are on this board because?

 

Yankees fans post on Sox boards to hang out with cool, fun people.

 

There aren't any on the Yankees forums.

[Kimmi]

Our pen, before today....

 

12.2 IP

 

4 ER (2.84 ERA)

 

13 H+BB (1.03 WHIP)

 

Fun fact from Speier:

 

Red Sox starters: 15 innings, 13.20 ERA;

 

Red Sox bullpen: 18 innings, 2.50 ERA

[Kimmi]

Hard to believe they could be that bad. Not all of them. Just crazy bad numbers for a season start, and yet our BP was pretty good. So its something to do with the preparation with our starters. If Price sucks, we will at least show consistency.

 

Cora has taken quite a bit of heat over this, and my understanding is that he is rather defensive about it.

 

Good for him. Stick to your guns, Cora.

[Kimmi]

The Red Sox took the spring training games off. The Mariners started their season 10 days ago. In retrospect, are we really shocked?

 

Another fun fact:

 

The Red Sox, Yankees, and Astros are currently a combined 3-8 with a -11 run differential.

 

Go baseball!

[Kimmi]

No reset, Henry would rather have good teams and pay the tax. He's the greatest owner ever, and very shrewd as well. What the hell does a little tax matter when you're winning titles and the market value of your team keeps going up?

 

It appears that this could be the case, which I never would have believed would happen.

 

Good for Red Sox fans.

[Kimmi]

I care. I feel like I'd be a hypocrite, if I didn't.

 

Personally, I don't like it one bit.

[Kimmi]

But one doesn't have to have the highest payroll to be viewed as "buying" a championship.

 

And for the record, I have no problem with it.

 

I just think it's silly that you want to be viewed "differently".

 

Unfortunately, I have to side with you on this one Babe.

 

What the Sox are doing is no different than what the Yankees were doing.

 

The Sox and Sox fans have become what we always hated about the Yankees and the Yankees fans.

 

No, I'm not going to give back any of the championships that we win with a enormous payroll, but I am very much against building a team that way.

[Kimmi]

What John Henry is doing and what George Steinbrenner did is what every owner should do . They are all billionaires. The fans are paying the freight . Give them something they can enjoy and appreciate. You can't simply " buy a championship " if everyone else is also going all in . The blame is not on the Steinbrenners and Henrys . It is on many of the other owners.

 

What those billionaires could be doing with all the money they're making is try charging the fans less money in ticket prices and build a freaking farm system.

[S5Dewey]

What those billionaires could be doing with all the money they're making is try charging the fans less money in ticket prices .......

Hahahahaha..Oh, Kimmie, I DO love your sense of humor!!!!

[moonslav59]

So are you embarrassed about last year's title because of your payroll?

 

No.

 

It was the first time we led the league in spending, despite you claiming we have for years, and we only had two big money free agents playing on the team- Price & JD.

 

We outspent the next team by $27M not $50-84M.

 

If the trend continues, yes, I will will feel a bit ashamed that our team is doing what I always despised the Yanks for doing year after year after year.

 

I'd have preferred we won without spending so much, and our actual playing roster was not the highest paid, if you subtract Pablo & HRam, but I suppose other top spenders have dead weight, too.

 

My point was that I don't want us to lead the league in spending, especially by wide margins, years after year. It's not just about feeling like a hypocrite, because my opinion on buying championships has not changed just because we won one while spending more.

 

Teams have closed the gap this year, and I fully expected others to pass us this year after LAD and NYY reset their tax, but I guess the league is changing while the Sox were on top.

 

I'm not bothered now, but I will be if we hit 3 years in a row outspending teams by $20M or more each year. It still won't be as bad as 15 years in a row by the Yanks with several years having obscene differentials.

[Bellhorn04]

The Red Sox have had one of the highest payrolls for about two decades now. To be honest I love the fact that we're now outspending the Yankees and that many of their fans are complaining about it.

[Jasonbay44]

I never really cared about the spending... Id rather spend a lot of money, than be cheap and watch other teams spend on star players.

[BillyWilliams]

The Red Sox have had one of the highest payrolls for about two decades now. To be honest I love the fact that we're now outspending the Yankees and that many of their fans are complaining about it.

 

I actually wasn't complaining about it as it doesn't bother me in the least. If ya got, spend it.

 

I merely brought it up because of moonslob's not wanting to be "viewed like the Yankees" comment.

[SCM33]

I actually wasn't complaining about it as it doesn't bother me in the least. If ya got, spend it.

 

I merely brought it up because of moonslob's not wanting to be "viewed like the Yankees" comment.

 

Cubs Suck

[BillyWilliams]

No.

 

It was the first time we led the league in spending, despite you claiming we have for years, and we only had two big money free agents playing on the team- Price & JD.

 

We outspent the next team by $27M not $50-84M.

 

If the trend continues, yes, I will will feel a bit ashamed that our team is doing what I always despised the Yanks for doing year after year after year.

 

I'd have preferred we won without spending so much, and our actual playing roster was not the highest paid, if you subtract Pablo & HRam, but I suppose other top spenders have dead weight, too.

 

My point was that I don't want us to lead the league in spending, especially by wide margins, years after year. It's not just about feeling like a hypocrite, because my opinion on buying championships has not changed just because we won one while spending more.

 

Teams have closed the gap this year, and I fully expected others to pass us this year after LAD and NYY reset their tax, but I guess the league is changing while the Sox were on top.

 

I'm not bothered now, but I will be if we hit 3 years in a row outspending teams by $20M or more each year. It still won't be as bad as 15 years in a row by the Yanks with several years having obscene differentials.

 

But again, you don't have to be the top spender to be viewed that way.

 

As I said, teams that spend a heck of a lot less view the sawx as "buying" championships no matter if you want to admit that or not.

 

And the sawx will have the highest payroll 2 years running, that's what I meant as several.