A Realistic View at 2019: Part I

[mvp 78]

I will gladly take a bite out of my hat if Pedroia comes back and contributes in any kind of substantive way to the team this year.

 

Hope you're hungry!

[mvp 78]

It has nothing to do with sleeping at night.

 

In 2017 the sox won the division by two games, and it wasn't decided until the last week.

 

That certainly wasn't "handedly" winning the division and the Yanks certainly had a chance.

 

Spin it however you like if it makes you feel better.

 

The Sox have two rings since the last time the Yankees even won the division. If that's "spin" you live in a very different world from me.

 

Back to back to back to back!

[notin]

As Spring Training moves on, MLBTR still lists over 60 free agents without homes. Some of them will likely retire, probably 15-20 or so. But some of these guys still have some baseball left on them. (And how is Jose Iglesias still available? It’s not like some team is waiting on him as a fallback in case they don’t sign Machado, is it?)

 

There’s still a few guys I think could help Boston, even on minor league deals.

 

Bullpen arms. I’m actually surprised Dombrowski passed on Jake Diekman, but Ryan Madson and Nick Vincent would both represent upgrades for the Sox pen. I’ve never been a huge fan of Tyler Clippard, but he does have a good track record. And while I’m opposed to LOOGY strategies, it is a job Aaron Loup has done well. At this stage, one might think any of these guys fit the budget.

 

Logan Forsythe on a minor league deal also makes a lot of sense. Even with Chavis trying 2b, the idea is to replace the depth that was traded away in Esteban Quiroz. Forsythe is also a very good defender at 3b (unlike Chavis), and Cora has expressed interest in having a defensive replacement at 3b.

 

Craig Gentry is another guy I’d like to see the Sox sign to a minor league deal. The Sox outfield depth in the minors is abysmal. At this stage, getting an OF who can hit might not be so likely, but one who can at least field could be helpful. And Gentry is among the best defensive outfielders in the game. He is also an excellent base runner should the need for a pinchrunner arise at some point.

 

But if I had to guess, I think all that’s left on Dombrowski’s To Do list is to trade a catcher for rotation depth, which is a hard move to figure, since Swihart won’t get much, especially if the pitcher having an option is a requirement. The best the Sox might get for Swihart is another prospect who failed to live up to the hype, like Cincinnati’s Robert Stephenson or Lucas Sims. Or maybe a career minor leaguer with some MLB-caliber skills equaled by his flaws, like Cleveland’s 26yo Jake Paulson.

 

Now if they trade Vazquez, that might be a different story. But it’s still tough to figure who they could get for him...

[notin]

Hope you're hungry!

 

 

Are you back on the Pedroia Bandwagon now?

[notin]

It has nothing to do with sleeping at night.

 

In 2017 the sox won the division by two games, and it wasn't decided until the last week.

 

That certainly wasn't "handedly" winning the division and the Yanks certainly had a chance.

 

Spin it however you like if it makes you feel better.

 

 

Can I spin it by saying “The 2017 Red Sox won the division over the Yankees by two full games despite scrap heap reclamation project Doug Fister starting more games than former Cy Young winner David Price”?

[kenmeister]

As Spring Training moves on, MLBTR still lists over 60 free agents without homes. Some of them will likely retire, probably 15-20 or so. But some of these guys still have some baseball left on them. (And how is Jose Iglesias still available? It’s not like some team is waiting on him as a fallback in case they don’t sign Machado, is it?)

 

There’s still a few guys I think could help Boston, even on minor league deals.

 

Bullpen arms. I’m actually surprised Dombrowski passed on Jake Diekman, but Ryan Madson and Nick Vincent would both represent upgrades for the Sox pen. I’ve never been a huge fan of Tyler Clippard, but he does have a good track record. And while I’m opposed to LOOGY strategies, it is a job Aaron Loup has done well. At this stage, one might think any of these guys fit the budget.

 

Logan Forsythe on a minor league deal also makes a lot of sense. Even with Chavis trying 2b, the idea is to replace the depth that was traded away in Esteban Quiroz. Forsythe is also a very good defender at 3b (unlike Chavis), and Cora has expressed interest in having a defensive replacement at 3b.

 

Craig Gentry is another guy I’d like to see the Sox sign to a minor league deal. The Sox outfield depth in the minors is abysmal. At this stage, getting an OF who can hit might not be so likely, but one who can at least field could be helpful. And Gentry is among the best defensive outfielders in the game. He is also an excellent base runner should the need for a pinchrunner arise at some point.

 

But if I had to guess, I think all that’s left on Dombrowski’s To Do list is to trade a catcher for rotation depth, which is a hard move to figure, since Swihart won’t get much, especially if the pitcher having an option is a requirement. The best the Sox might get for Swihart is another prospect who failed to live up to the hype, like Cincinnati’s Robert Stephenson or Lucas Sims. Or maybe a career minor leaguer with some MLB-caliber skills equaled by his flaws, like Cleveland’s 26yo Jake Paulson.

 

Now if they trade Vazquez, that might be a different story. But it’s still tough to figure who they could get for him...

 

It's astounding. I really hope Iglesias is available next offseason when we need him.

[moonslav59]

It's astounding. I really hope Iglesias is available next offseason when we need him.

 

He would be a nice, cost-effective signing next winter.

[S5Dewey]

It's astounding. I really hope Iglesias is available next offseason when we need him.

 

Iglesias? Really? First of all, the guy can't hit. Secondly, he's not all that good defensively. He has a penchant for making great plays but can't make the routine ones dependably.

 

At least that's what I've always heard.

[BillyWilliams]

The Sox have two rings since the last time the Yankees even won the division. If that's "spin" you live in a very different world from me.

 

Back to back to back to back!

 

That has nothing to do with your original claim, that the sox won the division "handedly" and the Yanks didn't have a chance.

 

But move the goalposts if you like.

[BillyWilliams]

Can I spin it by saying “The 2017 Red Sox won the division over the Yankees by two full games despite scrap heap reclamation project Doug Fister starting more games than former Cy Young winner David Price”?

 

All teams have injuries, heck, the Yanks had starts by Cessa (who I hate), Mitchell and Caleb Smith (who?).

[notin]

All teams have injuries, heck, the Yanks had starts by Cessa (who I hate), Mitchell and Caleb Smith (who?).

 

Yes but not all teams had injuries to $31mill Cy Young winners who were the ace of the division champion team one year previous...

[BillyWilliams]

Yes but not all teams had injuries to $31mill Cy Young winners who were the ace of the division champion team one year previous...

 

I believe porcello was the ace of the 2016 staff..........

[notin]

I believe porcello was the ace of the 2016 staff..........

 

Porcello had the best season, but one year does not an ace make...

[BillyWilliams]

Porcello had the best season, but one year does not an ace make...

 

Carrying a 3.99 ERA for the season does not make an ace ..........

[notin]

Carrying a 3.99 ERA for the season does not make an ace ..........

 

 

But when your three previous seasons combine for a 3.01 ERA and 16.9 fWAR, I think the argument is there.

 

Are you actually trying to argue that all things are equal with the Sox losing Price and the Yankees having to endure FIVE STARTS from Luis Cessa?

Edited February 14, 2019 by notin

[BillyWilliams]

But when your three previous seasons combine for a 3.01 ERA and 16.9 fWAR, I think the argument is there.

 

Are you actually trying to argue that all things are equal with the Sox losing Price and the Yankees having to endure FIVE STARTS from Luis Cessa?

 

Bottom line is it certainly wasn't an 'ace-like' season regardless of what he did in previous seasons......

[moonslav59]

If the top 30 starters in MLB are called "an ace," then in the last 3 years combined, Porcello places...

 

18th in WAR

 

24th in WHIP

 

41st in ERA-

 

[notin]

Bottom line is it certainly wasn't an 'ace-like' season regardless of what he did in previous seasons......

 

 

And yet we won the AL East that year, too...

[BillyWilliams]

And yet we won the AL East that year, too...

 

You certainly did, but that was not the debate..........

[mvp 78]

Are you back on the Pedroia Bandwagon now?

 

I was never "off" his bandwagon. I just thought he should have been traded a few years ago when his value was still high. I was proven correct even though some silly folks think I was just buzzarding. I like Pedroia on the team. I'm not sure he'll be worth $12M in 2021, but time will tell. If they can win another ring this year or next, I'm fine with a Pedey retirement tour in '21.

[mvp 78]

That has nothing to do with your original claim, that the sox won the division "handedly" and the Yanks didn't have a chance.

 

But move the goalposts if you like.

 

My goalposts didn't move at all. The Yankees haven't really competed the past few years and they won't this year. It was wrapped up long before the final week, you just didn't want to believe it.

[BillyWilliams]

My goalposts didn't move at all. The Yankees haven't really competed the past few years and they won't this year. It was wrapped up long before the final week, you just didn't want to believe it.

 

Right, as evidenced by that huge margin of 2 games...........

[BillyWilliams]

If the top 30 starters in MLB are called "an ace," then in the last 3 years combined, Porcello places...

 

18th in WAR

 

24th in WHIP

 

41st in ERA-

 

 

That brings a whole different debate to the table.

 

Are there really 30 pitchers in MLB that are aces?

 

I think just because one may be considered that particular team's ace doesn't necessarily make them a true ace.

 

They may just be the best pitcher on a lousy staff.

[oldtimer]

soxprospects.com...

 

With Dustin Pedroia coming back from injury, second base is one of the few starting positions that is a question mark for the Red Sox. Chavis confirmed to Christopher Smith of Masslive.com that he has been working out at second base. Chavis also revealed that he is down 14 pounds from last year, and the increased mobility will help him if he does have to play the middle infield.

 

http://news.soxprospects.com/2019/02/fort-report-pitchers-and-catchers.html

 

Good to have a potential full time backup for 2nd in the pipeline.

[Bellhorn04]

That brings a whole different debate to the table.

 

Are there really 30 pitchers in MLB that are aces?

 

I think just because one may be considered that particular team's ace doesn't necessarily make them a true ace.

 

They may just be the best pitcher on a lousy staff.

 

Nobody really knows an ace is, exactly.

 

From my discussions on baseball forums over the years, the pitchers most people think of as aces are on a Hall of Fame track-guys like Kershaw and Verlander. So there really aren't very many of them.

[moonslav59]

That brings a whole different debate to the table.

 

Are there really 30 pitchers in MLB that are aces?

 

I think just because one may be considered that particular team's ace doesn't necessarily make them a true ace.

 

They may just be the best pitcher on a lousy staff.

 

I like the idea of using roughly the top 30 pitchers as the criteria for considering someone as an "ace".

 

There are, in theory, 150 slots in MLB's 30 team rotations. Being in the top 20% makes you part of the conversation.

 

Porcello would clearly be the best pitcher on several teams right now. Does that make him an ace? I wouldn't go that far, because then any pitcher that is better than the worst #1 pitcher on a given team could be called the ace of that team, if he was traded there.

 

I know the criteria is hotly debated, but being 18th in WAR is pretty impressive. 24th in WHIP adds to the argument that Porcello is at least close to an ace.

 

Personally, I'd call him a decent #2 or a solid #3.

 

I'd call Sale the best of the #1's. The ace of aces.

 

I'd call Price a decent ace or a solid #2.

 

Eovaldi can be a #2, if healthy.

 

ERod may someday be a #1 or 2, but I'd call him a decnt #3 right now.

 

 

Severino is a true ace.

 

Paxton could be an ace, if he ever gets near 200 IP. He's a 2, now.

 

Happ has pitched like a solid #2 over the last 3 years.

 

Tanaka is hard to call. I'd say decent #2 or solid #3.

 

CC is on his way out, but he's likely a good 4.

[Station 13]

Your rotation is better because of one guy. Our 2-5 is better than your 2-5, IMO and in the stats from last year.

 

The rotation that got blown out throughout the season and post season by the Red Sox?

[BillyWilliams]

I like the idea of using roughly the top 30 pitchers as the criteria for considering someone as an "ace".

 

There are, in theory, 150 slots in MLB's 30 team rotations. Being in the top 20% makes you part of the conversation.

 

Porcello would clearly be the best pitcher on several teams right now. Does that make him an ace? I wouldn't go that far, because then any pitcher that is better than the worst #1 pitcher on a given team could be called the ace of that team, if he was traded there.

 

I know the criteria is hotly debated, but being 18th in WAR is pretty impressive. 24th in WHIP adds to the argument that Porcello is at least close to an ace.

 

Personally, I'd call him a decent #2 or a solid #3.

 

I'd call Sale the best of the #1's. The ace of aces.

 

I'd call Price a decent ace or a solid #2.

 

Eovaldi can be a #2, if healthy.

 

ERod may someday be a #1 or 2, but I'd call him a decnt #3 right now.

 

 

Severino is a true ace.

 

Paxton could be an ace, if he ever gets near 200 IP. He's a 2, now.

 

Happ has pitched like a solid #2 over the last 3 years.

 

Tanaka is hard to call. I'd say decent #2 or solid #3.

 

CC is on his way out, but he's likely a good 4.

 

I'd say Scherzer is the ace of aces

[BillyWilliams]

Nobody really knows an ace is, exactly.

 

From my discussions on baseball forums over the years, the pitchers most people think of as aces are on a Hall of Fame track-guys like Kershaw and Verlander. So there really aren't very many of them.

 

I tend to agree

[moonslav59]

I'd say Scherzer is the ace of aces

 

You'd be close but wrong.