Over?

[Kimmi]

Kind of funny - a troll starts a ridiculous thread and we run with it anyway.

 

Trollish posts always get more attention than serious ones, which is the very intent of the troll, as we all know. And yet, we can't help ourselves.

 

I remember when I first started posting at BDC. It took the longest time before anyone outside of the Sawxheads posters (You, Cycles, Zac, and JoeB basically) would respond to me. I mentioned this to several fellow posters independently, and the response was the same from each one - Post something stupid. LOL

 

Very true.

 

On that note, I will give a shout out to the Talksox posters who were here when I joined (and to you, in particular, for getting me here) . I felt welcomed and part of the forum from Day 1.

[harmony]

You are not only wrong, you should become a Yankee fan, if you give up this easily.

As I write, Jason33 has only 17 posts. He may well be a Yankee fan or simply an outside agitator.

 

According to his profile: "Jason33: has not made any friends yet.";)

 

Then again, according to my profile, I apparently have no friends.

Edited October 7, 2018 by harmony

[Kimmi]

Huh?

 

That home plate umpire last night was about as good as it gets. The only calls he “missed” per the K Zone were about as marginal as it gets. And when you remember his job entails trying to determine if a 95 mph pitch passed even partially through an imaginary box that’s maybe 7 or 8 cubic feet in volume and do so in a mere second or two, I’d say his performance last night was outstanding.

 

Price got “screwed over” because he threw an 0-2 pitch right down the middle to Judge and because he foolishly walked the 8 and 9 hitters back to back...

 

I have to disagree with that. As I stated in the game thread, I am not one to blame the umpire for calling strikes or balls that seem heavily in favor of one team over the other. In last night's game, however, I do think that Tanaka was given the advantage on those close pitches that were just off the plate. He got several calls that our pitchers did not.

 

I am not saying that that is the reason why Price did not pitch well. I'm also not saying that that is the reason why the Sox lost. However, I do think that the bat was taken out of our hitters' hands on several occasions and I do think that that allowed Tanaka to not have to throw strikes. That said, Tanaka does deserve credit for being able to repeatedly hit those spots that he knew would be strikes for him.

[Kimmi]

While his W-L record says otherwise, Porcello did pitch very well against the Yankees this year in 4 starts...

 

I feel good about our chances with Porcello, Eovaldi, then Sale pitching in Games 3, 4, and 5.

[cp176]

Huh?

 

That home plate umpire last night was about as good as it gets. The only calls he “missed” per the K Zone were about as marginal as it gets. And when you remember his job entails trying to determine if a 95 mph pitch passed even partially through an imaginary box that’s maybe 7 or 8 cubic feet in volume and do so in a mere second or two, I’d say his performance last night was outstanding.

 

Price got “screwed over” because he threw an 0-2 pitch right down the middle to Judge and because he foolishly walked the 8 and 9 hitters back to back...

 

Pretty sure that I am going to stand by what I said. You get to praise that home plate umpire all you want to and criticize Price all you want. Never did I suggest that he pitched well nor did I say anything about him not serving up the gopher balls. He got squeezed which very well might have affected his game. Tanaka got calls that he did not.

[cp176]

Agreed 100%

 

He likes it when people agree with him even if what is being said is ********.

[jung]

It is absolutely not over. But if the Sox keep going to the plate the way they have in these two games, I don't like our chances. Take a home run by the best hitter we have out of these first 18 innings and we have done absolutely nothing, in one case against a pitcher Happ that was flat awful. We certainly can pitch better than Price pitched last night. But we are not going to generate as much offense as we are used to from the regular season and we are not likely to generate any offense that will lead to post season wins going to the plate the way we have been for the first 18 innings.

 

We are waiting till our 2nd and 3rd times through to adapt to their starters. Can't do that in the post season. Its too late by then. You have to focus on what the opposing battery is trying to do from the very first pitch of every game....REPEAT....from the very first pitch of every game. If you don't beat these starters early, they will be gone by the time you get your 3rd shots at them anyway. If they are not gone by then, it means they are beating you so badly that their pitch counts are low and they are just mowing you down. So that "strategy" from the regular season does not work no matter how the opposing pitcher is doing.

 

None of the post season opposing batteries are going to lay down for us because of the gaudy regular season offensive stats of some of our players. But in fact that is how we are hitting, like we can just throw our bats out on the field and they will just lay down for us....about like the regular season went against most of the sludge we faced all year.

 

We have to focus on what the opposing battery is trying to do right from the very first pitch of the game and calculate how we will hit when we get to the plate right from what happens from the first pitch of the game. When you are in the dugout, no visiting the buffet table, no extra trips for a fresh up. Keep your ass in that dugout and watch everything the battery is doing with every one of your hitters. I know we are not doing that. I don't even have to be in the park to know they are not doing that.

 

Tanaka was not nearly as dominant last night as he can be. We let him do exactly what he does. We did it by stubbornly taking good pitches to hit early in counts early in the game. Right from strike 1 to Mookie we should have seen that he was not terribly confident at that point in the game and was throwing NOTHING at 0-0, trying to get to 0-1. You are not going to have much success against Tanaka letting him get 2 strikes on you unless he is flat out terrible that night. Getting you to 2 strikes and then gutting you is what Tanaka does. We know that is Tanaka's plan.

 

Pitching beats hitting. It just does. The game is designed that way. Everything that happens in this game starts with a pitch, a huge advantage for the battery over the hitter. So our hitters have to know before the game starts what a particular pitcher and battery is going to try to do and start making decisions about the opposing battery's level of confidence in that plan right from the first pitch to the first batter. Tanaka has a plan. Sevarino has a plan. Happ has a plan. CC has a plan. They all have a plan. They are all good in the post season and they all have a plan. That is just the way it is and they WILL beat you because you don't have the advantage....THEY DO!

 

We are going to the plate like we do what we do and by the 3rd time through the order we will have this figured out or we will catch up to the starter. Not gonna' work in the post season. Didn't work with Tanaka and won't really work with any of them unless they pull a Happ or a Price and are flat terrible.

 

Funny thing about this is that if we get through this round, there is better pitching down stream for us to face than we are facing now. If we think we are going to be putting up crooked numbers regularly, think again. Not going to happen. If we continue to bat like all we need to do is roll our bats out onto the field, nothing is going to happen.

[Bellhorn04]

It is absolutely not over. But if the Sox keep going to the plate the way they have in these two games, I don't like our chances. Take a home run by the best hitter we have out of these first 18 innings and we have done absolutely nothing, in one case against a pitcher Happ that was flat awful. We certainly can pitch better than Price pitched last night. But we are not going to generate as much offense as we are used to from the regular season and we are not likely to generate any offense that will lead to post season wins going to the plate the way we have been for the first 18 innings.

 

We are waiting till our 2nd and 3rd times through to adapt to their starters. Can't do that in the post season. Its too late by then. You have to focus on what the opposing battery is trying to do from the very first pitch of every game....REPEAT....from the very first pitch of every game. If you don't beat these starters early, they will be gone by the time you get your 3rd shots at them anyway. If they are not gone by then, it means they are beating you so badly that their pitch counts are low and they are just mowing you down. So that "strategy" from the regular season does not work no matter how the opposing pitcher is doing.

 

They scored 5 runs off Happ in "2+" innings. (2 were inherited runners of Green's).

 

While your point may apply to last night's game, trying to stretch it out to both games makes it thinner than a fashion model on a hunger strike.

[jung]

They scored 5 runs off Happ in "2+" innings. (2 were inherited runners of Green's).

 

While your point may apply to last night's game, trying to stretch it out to both games makes it thinner than a fashion model on a hunger strike.

 

Fine...so if we get a starter who is flat terrible we will win.... Problem is we won't get starters that are flat terrible too often in the post season. Up to the 7th inning of last night's game there had been 44 runs scored in 8 post season games. By the end of last night's game there was 47 runs scored in 8 games by all teams playing. That is post season baseball. We will see if we can play post season baseball. We can IMO. But we haven't yet.

[notin]

He likes it when people agree with him even if what is being said is ********.

 

I do?

 

I found no fault with the umpire and every fault with Price. You can’t argue he got squeezed when he grooved an 0-2 pitch. And his walks to Gardner and Torres were simply bad pitching.

 

Hopefully he gets another chance against Cleveland or Houston and gets better...

[dgalehouse]

As I write, Jason33 has only 17 posts. He may well be a Yankee fan or simply an outside agitator.

 

According to his profile: "Jason33: has not made any friends yet.";)

 

Then again, according to my profile, I apparently have no friends.

 

Harm , I'll be your friend.

[dgalehouse]

What hands me the biggest laugh is posters who rant and moan and predict doom , then say " I hope I'm wrong."

[notin]

What hands me the biggest laugh is posters who rant and moan and predict doom , then say " I hope I'm wrong."

 

It’s like that old George Will quote. “ The beauty of being a pessimist is you are constantly either proven correct or pleasantly surprised.”

[fxkatt]

As I write, Jason33 has only 17 posts. He may well be a Yankee fan or simply an outside agitator.

 

According to his profile: "Jason33: has not made any friends yet.";)

 

Then again, according to my profile, I apparently have no friends.

 

HaHa. Actually, I didn't think there were any bells and whistles on this board, so the friends thing is brand new to me, but I'll forget I read it.

 

About the Yanks. I think one big change in their BP is Dellin Betances. He started off as a terrific young pitcher, then had few erratic years, and this year has emerged as a shut-down pitcher either in the 8th or now in the playoffs and other serious games, as the early First Stopper. We used to count on him to mess up and now we can't.

[moonslav59]

Wow. I have to ask just why you are so optimistic when the Sox are playing exactly the way they played in the last two ALDS's, when Price once again got hammered in the postseason (where he is now 0-10), when the Yankees bullpen remains so dominant, and when their lineup is so relentless?

 

As the OP says, forget last night, it happens. The scary game was Friday night when we won after Sale had a great start--his longest since July 27--and JDM hit a 3 run dinger and the Sox should have been off to the races. Nope. Enter our woebegone bullpen and the Yankees lineup which had us Sox fans on the edge or our seats until the last out in a 5-4 win.

 

Now we are headed for Yankee Stadium where the Sox are 3-6 for the year.

 

I agree it's not over. Not in baseball. Not after being down 0-3 to the Yankees in the 2004 ALCS and 1-3 to the Guardians in the 2007 ALCS. There is always hope.

 

But let me tell you something loud and clear. If you aren't worried, you aren't paying attention.

 

I have to ask what is a fan?

 

This is the best team in Red Sox history. We are tied 1 to 1 in a 5 game series, and some so-called Sox fans say it is over.

 

I'm not saying every Sox fan has to think we have a better chance of winning than losing, especially when we just lost the home field, but to say or think it's over already is just too much for me.

 

Nobody has to agree with me about what a true fan is, but being a fan, to me, is all about remaining optimistic and positive about your team, even in tough times.

 

The negativity and lost hope by several posters here makes it clear to me why it's so hard for players and managers to feel wanted in the Red Sox community. Maybe I'm being naive. Maybe I am wearing pink glasses, and we are going to get throttled in the next two games, then so be it. I know this team has weak areas. I've been critical many times this year, but this is crossing the line , in my opinion.

 

I firmly believe this team will win this series and the next two. We've beaten the Yanks this year more than we've lost. We are a top 3-4 team in every area, except our pen, and even there, outnumbers are better than we've looked recently. Kelly looked real good yesterday, and only ERod bombed from our pen last night.

 

This team has fought back after tough stretches all year. Believe what you want to believe, but this never-ending negativity sickens me and makes me see why many outside the Red Sox community shake their heads at our fans and media.

 

Have some pride. This team deserves it.

 

[moonslav59]

What hands me the biggest laugh is posters who rant and moan and predict doom , then say " I hope I'm wrong."

 

Yes, it was clear this so-called fan has no hope at all in a 108 team that is tied in a series.

[fxkatt]

Yes, it was clear this so-called fan has no hope at all in a 108 team that is tied in a series.

 

I agree that some concerned posters and posts go too "negative." But pointing out concerns, which many of us do, are not being negative or not being fans. Fans of every team have two basic approaches... one tends toward the confident, and others toward the pessimistic. The idea is the same behind both approaches... awaken the damn team either by support or a good kick in the butt. Winning is the point with both fans.

 

To me Bill Belichick is the perfect "fan." He's never too confident. He always praises the team he's about to play even more than his own team. And he's always right on top of his team's flaws, his players' flaws and his own flaws. And I would say that he's actually closer to the pessimist fan than too the confident fan.

[moonslav59]

I agree that some concerned posters and posts go too "negative." But pointing out concerns, which many of us do, are not being negative or not being fans. Fans of every team have two basic approaches... one tends toward the confident, and others toward the pessimistic. The idea is the same behind both approaches... awaken the damn team either by support or a good kick in the butt. Winning is the point with both fans.

 

To me Bill Belichick is the perfect "fan." He's never too confident. He always praises the team he's about to play even more than his own team. And he's always right on top of his team's flaws, his players' flaws and his own flaws. And I would say that he's actually closer to the pessimist fan than too the confident fan.

 

I've been critical and highly critical over the decades of being a Sox fan, I've known and said we have no chance many times in that history, but this is absurd, and I'm calling it what it is. It's not being a fan to say it's over at this point.

[cp176]

I do?

 

I found no fault with the umpire and every fault with Price. You can’t argue he got squeezed when he grooved an 0-2 pitch. And his walks to Gardner and Torres were simply bad pitching.

 

Hopefully he gets another chance against Cleveland or Houston and gets better...

 

I'm not arguing that! What fool would. 0-2 - I think I have earned a little credit for minor amounts of baseball wisdom.

Yes you do and there isn't anything wrong with it. We all like to have people agree with us.

 

He got squeezed!

[Bellhorn04]

Fine...so if we get a starter who is flat terrible we will win.... Problem is we won't get starters that are flat terrible too often in the post season. Up to the 7th inning of last night's game there had been 44 runs scored in 8 post season games. By the end of last night's game there was 47 runs scored in 8 games by all teams playing. That is post season baseball. We will see if we can play post season baseball. We can IMO. But we haven't yet.

 

You seem to have constructed a perfect little Catch-22 there.

 

If we don't score runs it's because our approach stinks.

 

If we do score runs it's only because the other pitcher was terrible.

 

Happ pitched very well against us this year and the Yanks made sure to line him up to start Game 1 against us.

[moonslav59]

I'm not arguing that! What fool would. 0-2 - I think I have earned a little credit for minor amounts of baseball wisdom.

Yes you do and there isn't anything wrong with it. We all like to have people agree with us.

 

He got squeezed!

 

You are 100% correct. Some of the exact same pitches were called strikes for Tanaka. I remember a few being even more outside than Price's but were called strikes for Price.

 

It's not like Tanaka didn't get squeezed a couple times, but the differential was objectively significant.

[dgalehouse]

Before Game 3 of the 1975 World Series, a writer asked Bill Lee ; " What do you think of the Series so far?" His one word answer ; " Tied. ". That about sums it up.

[cp176]

I have to ask what is a fan?

 

This is the best team in Red Sox history. We are tied 1 to 1 in a 5 game series, and some so-called Sox fans say it is over.

 

I'm not saying every Sox fan has to think we have a better chance of winning than losing, especially when we just lost the home field, but to say or think it's over already is just too much for me.

 

Nobody has to agree with me about what a true fan is, but being a fan, to me, is all about remaining optimistic and positive about your team, even in tough times.

 

The negativity and lost hope by several posters here makes it clear to me why it's so hard for players and managers to feel wanted in the Red Sox community. Maybe I'm being naive. Maybe I am wearing pink glasses, and we are going to get throttled in the next two games, then so be it. I know this team has weak areas. I've been critical many times this year, but this is crossing the line , in my opinion.

 

I firmly believe this team will win this series and the next two. We've beaten the Yanks this year more than we've lost. We are a top 3-4 team in every area, except our pen, and even there, outnumbers are better than we've looked recently. Kelly looked real good yesterday, and only ERod bombed from our pen last night.

 

This team has fought back after tough stretches all year. Believe what you want to believe, but this never-ending negativity sickens me and makes me see why many outside the Red Sox community shake their heads at our fans and media.

 

Have some pride. This team deserves it.

 

 

The days of players not wanting to come to Boston are long gone. I'm glad that you mentioned this though since if the belief is that feeling wanted makes more players want to come here and play harder then I'm all for making them feel wanted although I think that if John Henry shows them that they are wanted that probably is enough.

If the thought is that happy players play better then clearly someone else believes in all of the unquantifiable things that I do.

Momentum can change in a heartbeat but indeed it matters. If you believe that you can do something, quite often you can. I also like seeing the use of the word pride here - having some can also be a great motivator.

 

This has been a wonderful season. We have a team that is young and hungry. They play together and they obviously like each other and understand how all of the intangibles can help lead to winning. I like our chances but I also recognize That the Yankees a damn good team as well. I don't think that me saying that makes me negative. I think that it makes me a realist. There will always be people who want to poke the bear but I don't think that too many fans right now are nasty negative. I do love your positive passion as a real Red Sox fan though.

Edited October 7, 2018 by cp176

[dgalehouse]

With all due respect to the Astros and Dodgers, this series is probably the biggest challenge in the quest for a ring. It is not your normal quarter finals. It was foolish to think that it would be easy. It is even more foolish to think it is over.

[moonslav59]

The days of players not wanting to come to Boston are long gone. I'm glad that you mentioned this though since if the belief is that feeling wanted makes more players want to come here and play harder then I'm all for making them feel wanted although I think that if John Henry shows them that they are wanted that probably is enough.

If the thought is that happy players play better then clearly someone else believes in all of the unquantifiable things that I do.

Momentum can change in a heartbeat but indeed it matters. If you believe that you can do something, quite often you can. I also like seeing the use of the word pride here - having some can also be a great motivator.

 

This has been a wonderful season. We have a team that is young and hungry. They play together and they obviously like each other and understand how all of the intangibles can help lead to winning. I like our chances but I also recognize That the Yankees a damn good team as well. I don't think that me saying that makes me negative. I think that it makes me a realist. There will always be people who want to poke the bear but I don't think that too many fans right now are nasty negative. I do love your positive passion as a real Red Sox fan though.

 

I was speaking more about baseball fans outside the Red Sox community not so much about players, although I do think our image might play into some players' choices on where to sign, especially international free agents and players with 2 or more equal offers on the table.

 

I don't really see myself as an overly optimistic. Many objective baseball people know this series is far from over.

 

BTW, although I have been accused of being all stats and no heart/emotion, I do believe in momentum, hot streaks and the non tangible aspects of the game, and how suddenly it all can change. Right now, things look a little bleak, but this team of ours has too many weapons to think we are even close to being over.

[jacksonianmarch]

You guys are funny. Over? We don’t hit Porcello or Eovaldi nearly as well as we do Price. You need one game and you get to go back to Fenway and hand the ball to Sale. This won’t be over until you’re eliminated, if you’re eliminated

[moonslav59]

You guys are funny. Over? We don’t hit Porcello or Eovaldi nearly as well as we do Price. You need one game and you get to go back to Fenway and hand the ball to Sale. This won’t be over until you’re eliminated, if you’re eliminated

 

The original poster is more of a Yankee fan than you!

[OH FOY]

Belichick also says what happens in the Regular Season is not relevant anymore, when the Pats make the Play-offs. What happened 2 weeks ago, 8 weeks ago, doesn't matter anymore. Its always about next game with him. Edited October 7, 2018 by OH FOY!

[Sox75]

Of course it's nowhere near over, but it will be if our bats don't wake up.

 

History of this year tells us that our bats will wake up, but our lineup does not look as deep or strong right now. Too many holes in our lineup right now, but I would never doubt this team's ability to break out.

 

I think JBJ, Mookie, Beni, Bogie, & Pearce lead the way. How do you not get Pearce in against the Yankees?

 

Need to wake up? JBJ, Mooreland, Sandy, Kindled, Nunez,

 

Sox come back & win in 4 games!

[jacksonianmarch]

The crazy thing is, I told you guys all year that your lineup was too top heavy. But when Mitchy no bags was Mitchy 2 bags, your lineup was deeper. Now, you’re 5-9 with an occasional JBJ single is bad. And when your top has a rough game, you’re not gonna score.