Playoff Roster - 2018

[Kimmi]

And I am cool with that. As long as the bone head plays are kept at a minimum.

 

I love 1st-3rd or 1st-home. I like watching athletic plays on both sides of the ball.

 

I like watching the aggressiveness too.

[oldtimer]

We got to watch the auditions for the post season more tonight. The pitchers who really hurt themselves were Ross and Thornburg. Cora pulled Cuevas early but it may have been because he wanted to save him for future work. Pom got brought into a hopeless situation which speaks to how he is currently valued. Johnson was sort of in between. I had hopes for Thornburg but tonight he lacked command.

 

So Kelly, Thornburg and Ross move to the back of the line. So we have Kimbrel, Brasier and Barnes at the front of the line and who else, Poyner, Workman, Wright and Hembree?

 

Hope Moon doesn't site the mess represented by the weak pitching tonight against Swihart and his catcher ERA. It looked to me was that it was all on the pitchers.

[moonslav59]

We got to watch the auditions for the post season more tonight. The pitchers who really hurt themselves were Ross and Thornburg. Cora pulled Cuevas early but it may have been because he wanted to save him for future work. Pom got brought into a hopeless situation which speaks to how he is currently valued. Johnson was sort of in between. I had hopes for Thornburg but tonight he lacked command.

 

So Kelly, Thornburg and Ross move to the back of the line. So we have Kimbrel, Brasier and Barnes at the front of the line and who else, Poyner, Workman, Wright and Hembree?

 

Hope Moon doesn't site the mess represented by the weak pitching tonight against Swihart and his catcher ERA. It looked to me was that it was all on the pitchers.

 

By Ross, I assume you mean Robby Scott.

 

Yes, Thornburg took a step back. Scott was already a long shot. His step back might be his last step.

 

Barnes is battling a hip injury, so he's an unknown.

 

I think Johnson took a step forward not sideways, but he was behind to begin with, so he gets more auditions to come with still a chance to win a slot.

 

My rankings after tonight (assuming 4 starters are Sale, Price & ERod/Porcello):

 

Lock (2-3): Kimbrel, Brasier and Barnes (if healthy)

 

Has to take steps back to not make it (2): Wright & Eovaldi

 

Bubble (2-3): Hembree, Workman & Poyner

 

Need steps forward to have a chance (3): Thornburg, Johnson, Velazquez

 

Maybe one back step away from being locked out (2): Kelly & Pom

 

Virtually no chance (2): Scott & Cuevas

 

[oldtimer]

By Ross, I assume you mean Robby Scott.

 

Yes, Thornburg took a step back. Scott was already a long shot. His step back might be his last step.

 

Barnes is battling a hip injury, so he's an unknown.

 

I think Johnson took a step forward not sideways, but he was behind to begin with, so he gets more auditions to come with still a chance to win a slot.

 

My rankings after tonight (assuming 4 starters are Sale, Price & ERod/Porcello):

 

Lock (2-3): Kimbrel, Brasier and Barnes (if healthy)

 

Has to take steps back to not make it (2): Wright & Eovaldi

 

Bubble (2-3): Hembree, Workman & Poyner

 

Need steps forward to have a chance (3): Thornburg, Johnson, Velazquez

 

Maybe one back step away from being locked out (2): Kelly & Pom

 

Virtually no chance (2): Scott & Cuevas

 

 

Yes, I left Eovaldi out and that was an oversight. I did mean Scott, who was awful.

 

Barnes is now throwing a side session so is making progress.

 

Lets see who Cora brings in during a meaningful game, probably like the one this afternoon.

[moonslav59]

Yes, I left Eovaldi out and that was an oversight. I did mean Scott, who was awful.

 

Barnes is now throwing a side session so is making progress.

 

Lets see who Cora brings in during a meaningful game, probably like the one this afternoon.

 

No games will be truly "meaningful," except to players on the bubble, players coming back from injury (Sale & barnes) or maybe JD seeking the triple crown.

 

[oldtimer]

No games will be truly "meaningful," except to players on the bubble, players coming back from injury (Sale & barnes) or maybe JD seeking the triple crown.

 

 

Yes, today we saw continued good performance from our bullpen Wright, Poyner, Brasier and Kimbrel. Probably only Poyner is a bubble player. Also, Devers hit the ball and Holt proved his value once again. The game was also meaningful as we don't want to slump at the end of the season. The Yankees are essentially out of the pennant race. now the goal can be to assure HF advantage.

[moonslav59]

Has anyone else noticed how successful we've been when PH'ing for our catchers, recently?

[oldtimer]

Has anyone else noticed how successful we've been when PH'ing for our catchers, recently?

 

Probably going to be a pattern going forward into the playoffs as Leon is on a 0 for roughly 30 run while Vaz is not much better. All the more reason to carry 14 position players.

[cp176]

Has anyone else noticed how successful we've been when PH'ing for our catchers, recently?

 

Yes I have very much so. Considering the fact that really neither Vazquez nor Leon seem to be able to hit much of anything these days a possible tactic might be to let them each get one trip to the plate and then pinch hit for them. Use all 3. lol

[cp176]

I don't let go of guys easily but I am at that point with Pomeranz and especially Kelly. Using kelly in any late inning role with a game on the line is now really looking to be an exercise in futility.

[oldtimer]

I don't let go of guys easily but I am at that point with Pomeranz and especially Kelly. Using kelly in any late inning role with a game on the line is now really looking to be an exercise in futility.

 

Its too bad but neither of them can get the job done and Thornburg looked bad the last time out as well. Hate to give up on kelly as he still has the velocity. Maybe he can be resserected for next years team.

[notin]

Yes I have very much so. Considering the fact that really neither Vazquez nor Leon seem to be able to hit much of anything these days a possible tactic might be to let them each get one trip to the plate and then pinch hit for them. Use all 3. lol

 

One thing is it puts the position near the top of Dombrowski’s offseason “To Do” list...

[Bellhorn04]

Has anyone else noticed how successful we've been when PH'ing for our catchers, recently?

 

Brock Holt as PH this year:

 

385/467/1154 = 1621 OPS.

 

Yes, his SLG is 1154.

 

SSS alert - 15 PA's

[Kimmi]

Has anyone else noticed how successful we've been when PH'ing for our catchers, recently?

 

Yes, and this looks like a theme that is definitely going to continue in the playoffs. It kind of gives us the best of both worlds. Strong defense behind the plate with Leon and Vaz, and good offense in being able to pinch hit for both of them, if needed. I'm all for 3 catchers on the postseason roster.

 

All that said, Cora said last night that his postseason roster decisions would not be based on small samples.

[oldtimer]

One thing is it puts the position near the top of Dombrowski’s offseason “To Do” list...

 

I would rid myself of one of the two (Leon or Vaz) due to insufficient offense and go for Lucroy in the FA market. Most FA's are going to be in their 30's and Lucroy is 33 but he would be a noticeable improvement and shore up our catching in 2019. He wouldn't be that expensive and maybe a 2 year deal would work.

[moonslav59]

Yes I have very much so. Considering the fact that really neither Vazquez nor Leon seem to be able to hit much of anything these days a possible tactic might be to let them each get one trip to the plate and then pinch hit for them. Use all 3. lol

 

I wonder why I never thought of carrying 3 catchers for the playoffs!

 

[moonslav59]

Yes, and this looks like a theme that is definitely going to continue in the playoffs. It kind of gives us the best of both worlds. Strong defense behind the plate with Leon and Vaz, and good offense in being able to pinch hit for both of them, if needed. I'm all for 3 catchers on the postseason roster.

 

All that said, Cora said last night that his postseason roster decisions would not be based on small samples.

 

The biggest drawback to using 3 catchers in a game is having Swihart behind the plate. The good thing is, he seems to do pretty good with out pen, which is when he might be used as a catcher.

[Kimmi]

The biggest drawback to using 3 catchers in a game is having Swihart behind the plate. The good thing is, he seems to do pretty good with out pen, which is when he might be used as a catcher.

 

But if we carry three catchers, Swihart should only have to be used for maybe 2 innings. I'd start with Leon, then go with Vaz, then to Swihart, if necessary. It's possible that it might not even get to having Swi behind the plate.

 

And if it does get to that point, he seems to be okay with the pen, as you said.

[notin]

I would rid myself of one of the two (Leon or Vaz) due to insufficient offense and go for Lucroy in the FA market. Most FA's are going to be in their 30's and Lucroy is 33 but he would be a noticeable improvement and shore up our catching in 2019. He wouldn't be that expensive and maybe a 2 year deal would work.

 

Leon is replaceable. Vazquez signed a lucrative extension the Sox might not want to pay so he can play elsewhere.

 

Lucroy is barely a catcher. Grandal and Ramos are better free agent targets. And the trade market is always possible (James McCann? Omar Narvaez? Tyler Flowers?)...

[moonslav59]

But if we carry three catchers, Swihart should only have to be used for maybe 2 innings. I'd start with Leon, then go with Vaz, then to Swihart, if necessary. It's possible that it might not even get to having Swi behind the plate.

 

And if it does get to that point, he seems to be okay with the pen, as you said.

 

Yes, that's been my thinking all along. basically, we keep Leon in the game, until the starter leaves (maybe Leon gets 2 PAs) or if a key batting moment arrives earlier in the game. We could PH Holt, Devers or Nunez and then bring in Vaz for 1-2 PAs. Swihart could just be a late inning catching option.

 

Swihart can also PR or play the OF or 1B, if needed.

 

The argument here on this site doesn't seem to be about having Swihart on the playoff roster. It's about Vaz vs a 12th pitcher or someone like Phillips or Lin. I keep asking, why do we need all these guys to play 2B/3B? They don't need to be PH for, as much as our catchers do, and most are not significantly better on offense or defense than the others, except Kinsler at 2B. I don't see us PH'ing for Kinsler or removing him for better defense (LOL), so we basically would be adding Lin or Phillips as a 4th string 3Bman.

 

3B: Devers/Nunez, Holt and _____. Are we going to PH 4 times at 3B? I could see wanting to bring Lin or Phillips in for defense, if devers happens to be on the field late in a game, but it should never come to having to us 3, let alone 4 3Bmen in a playoff game.

[Bellhorn04]

Leon is replaceable. Vazquez signed a lucrative extension the Sox might not want to pay so he can play elsewhere.

 

If the Sox let Leon go, it would suggest they think the concept of Catcher ERA is meaningless...

[moonslav59]

Leon is replaceable. Vazquez signed a lucrative extension the Sox might not want to pay so he can play elsewhere.

 

Lucroy is barely a catcher. Grandal and Ramos are better free agent targets. And the trade market is always possible (James McCann? Omar Narvaez? Tyler Flowers?)...

 

How are these guys with creating a comfort level with our starters?

 

Several of our best starters do demonstrably better with Leon than even Vaz, who has a good rep, too.

 

I'm not sure I'd mess with success.

 

I'm not sure how tradeable Vaz is, with that new contract, and i doubt we get much back in trade for Swihart. It would not surprise me, if the Sox just bite the offensive bullet with Leon and keep him around for another year. After all, he still starts more than Vaz & Swi.

[moonslav59]

If the Sox let Leon go, it would suggest they think the concept of Catcher ERA is meaningless...

 

I think it is clear they value CERA related skills.

 

Here's the proof:

 

2018 IP per catcher

 

Porcello

184.1 w Leon

Zero with others

(2017: 163 w Leon/ 40 w Vaz)

 

 

Sale

107 w Leon

40 with Vaz

zero with Swihart

(2017: 209 w Leon/5.1 with Vaz)

 

Price

73.1 w Leon (1.84 ERA)

92.1 w Vaz (4.68 ERA)

 

I'd be VERY hesitant to use anybody but Leon with our top 3 starters going forward.

[moonslav59]

My updated look...

 

Locks:

 

13-14 Everyday players

C: Leon

1B: Moreland & Pearce

2B: Kinsler & Holt

3B: Nunez

SS: Bogey

LF: Beni

CF: JBJ

RF: Betts

DH: JD

C2: Vaz or Swihart

 

Bubble (if we go with 13 everyday players): Devers or Swihart/Vaz

(If 14 everyday players) Devers, Swihart/Vaz or Lin or Phillips

 

Pretty sure locked out: Lin, Phillips, Travis

 

11-12 Pitchers

SP: Sale, Price, Porcello & ERod

RP: Kimbrel & Brasier

 

Lock, if healthy: Barnes

 

Has to take steps back to not make it (3): Wright, Eovaldi & Workman

 

Bubble (1-2 only): Hembree, Johnson & Poyner

 

Need multiple steps forward to have a chance at passing 2 from the "bubble" list: Thornburg & Velazquez

 

Pretty much locked out, unless they stage a miracle turn around in multiple appearances(2): Kelly & Pom

 

Virtually no chance (2): Scott & Cuevas

[moonslav59]

After today's game...

 

If there was ever a doubt about Holt (not from me), he's in.

 

Devers takes a small step forward.

Vaz stays even

Lin stays even with the error and dbl- a super long shot.

Phillips a super long shot anyways

 

Pitchers who pitched today (listed in my order of having the best shot before today):

Wright- in my opinion is already in, but he stepped forward today.

Workman- this step forward might just get him in.

Hembree- step backwards

Poyner

Johnson

Velazquez- step forward

Thornburg

Kelly- small step forward

Pom is surely out of contention at this point.

[oldtimer]

After today's game...

 

If there was ever a doubt about Holt (not from me), he's in.

 

Devers takes a small step forward.

Vaz stays even

Lin stays even with the error and dbl- a super long shot.

Phillips a super long shot anyways

 

Pitchers who pitched today (listed in my order of having the best shot before today):

Wright- in my opinion is already in, but he stepped forward today.

Workman- this step forward might just get him in.

Hembree- step backwards

Poyner

Johnson

Velazquez- step forward

Thornburg

Kelly- small step forward

Pom is surely out of contention at this point.

 

With as many pitches as we have on the roster now, why even put Pom in. He has nothing at all. He shows the fastball, but never on the plate and then he mainly throws a knuckle curve which he can't command. Enough already. Someone like Mookie will get hurt trying to make a play on one of his hard hit balls against.

 

I am officially on Holts wagon. If you say there are 8 field player locks and one of the two catchers, then say Nunez and Holt are on. Pearce appears to be a good bet and who then is the second catcher. If its Swihart then Lin has a chance for his running. If we take both Leon and Vaz, then I think Swihart makes it over Lin.

[notin]

If the Sox let Leon go, it would suggest they think the concept of Catcher ERA is meaningless...

 

Or at the very least, not repeatable year to year...

[Bellhorn04]

Or at the very least, not repeatable year to year...

 

Non-believers in Jason Varitek's game-calling skills?

[moonslav59]

With as many pitches as we have on the roster now, why even put Pom in. He has nothing at all. He shows the fastball, but never on the plate and then he mainly throws a knuckle curve which he can't command. Enough already. Someone like Mookie will get hurt trying to make a play on one of his hard hit balls against.

 

I am officially on Holts wagon. If you say there are 8 field player locks and one of the two catchers, then say Nunez and Holt are on. Pearce appears to be a good bet and who then is the second catcher. If its Swihart then Lin has a chance for his running. If we take both Leon and Vaz, then I think Swihart makes it over Lin.

 

You're taking Lin over Devers?

[moonslav59]

Or at the very least, not repeatable year to year...

 

His CERA- related numbers look favorable from year to year.