How Good Can This Sox Team Be?

[BillyWilliams]

They might even be good enough to win a playoff series this year ........

[dgalehouse]

The Sox had some great teams way back when. Just could not quite overcome the New York juggernaut in those days. Things have changed.

[moonslav59]

You are right. Trying to compare teams and athletes from different eras is impossible to do really. I believe that it is a generational type of thing. Some of us have had a real opportunity to see so many great great players from multiple decades. We all have our personal opinions about how the best would fare today.

One of the things that I have noticed is that when people talk about the impact Chris Sale has made on this team, they quite often make mention of Pedro's greatness which of course was legit. What I say with all due respect to the people who shudder at the thought of anyone using steroids, when Roger appeared on the scene for this franchise, it was like something we had never seen before. A literally dominating, big bodied type of kid. Every time he took the mound in his early days for sure, you just had the feeling that a no no was right around the corner. I would never say that he was the best but in his prime he was as good as anyone that I have been in a Red Sox uniform. Maybe the numbers don't support that opinion but he changed the landscape for the Sox.

 

Watching Clemens pitch changed my TV Sox viewership radically.

 

No longer did I take bathroom breaks or beer runs to the fridge during opponent's half innings. I took them when the Sox were coming up to bat.

 

That 19 K game vs the Tigers is still one of my best regular season Sox memories.

 

We always knew that winning it all was largely a result of great pitching, and although we never won a ring with Roger, he was an awesome talent. Those 3-4 mediocre seasons with us before leaving were puzzling. I have to think the roids pulled him out of that funk. His behavior with the underage girl sealed the spite I have for the guy now, but he was a top talent.

 

Pedro's 5-7 year run ('97 to '03 or '99 to '03) is maybe baseball's best ever. Certainly, he (and Schill) turned me into a believer that pitching wins rings.

 

Sale is quickly getting himself into their class. Just get us a ring, Chris!!!!!!!

[moonslav59]

ditto for 1978 - Let's see - how many were we up on the the fourth of July?

 

Perhaps the biggest disappointment for me was the 1972 Sox. The strike shortened season saw us finish in second place by 1/2 game to the Tigers. They played one more game than us.

 

That team had my boyhood favorite player, Tommy Harper, in CF. (He led the league in SBs the next season with the Sox.)

Fisk at catcher (Bob Montgomery as back-up).

Luis Aparicio and Doug Griffn as the keystone combo.

Rico at 3B.

Yaz in LF

Reggie Smith still with the team (RF)

Ben Oglivie, Rick Miller, Juan Beniquez and Dwight Evans as pehaps the best OF depth ever.

 

The pitching did us in, as always:

 

15-6 Luis Tiant (converted to starter)

17-13 Marty Pattin (another from the Brewer trade)

12-12 Sonny Siebert

11-8 John Curtis

8-7 Lynn McGlothen

5-6 Ray Culp

 

 

Bill Lee in the pen with Gary Peters, Lew Krausse, Newhauser, Tatum, Bolin and big Bob Veale.

 

[cp176]

Let's not forget the Incredible Dream.

 

That will be a spring, summer, and fall that I will never forget. All that ******** I just said about not being able to compare athletes and stuff today with yesterday forget some of that! - Captain Carl had quite possibly the greatest individual season that I have ever witnessed. "Th man we call Yaz!"- I bet you have the "Impossible dream" album. I had that as well as the "Havlicek Stole the Ball" - all lost in the shuffle of becoming a f***ing adult I say sadly although liife has been good.

[kenmeister]

I only started keeping up with the Sox daily in 1988; Morgan Magic drew me in. For me the biggest disappointment was 2003. I still can't believe Grady left Pedro in for the 8th with Timlin and Williamson ready to go. But there were other big disappointments. For instance, the 2002 Red Sox team was insanely talented, but had this ridiculous 10 game losing streak in August where, to my recollection, they led every game going into the 9th. Then there was the 1995 Red Sox. A very, very good team that completely blew it in the playoffs. I still remember Mo Vaughn and Jose Canseco being a combined what, 1 for 24 in that series? Clemens I think got tossed in the 2nd inning of the first game? Oh, and 2008, we were so close to winning the ALCS!

[Spudboy]

That will be a spring, summer, and fall that I will never forget. All that ******** I just said about not being able to compare athletes and stuff today with yesterday forget some of that! - Captain Carl had quite possibly the greatest individual season that I have ever witnessed. "Th man we call Yaz!"- I bet you have the "Impossible dream" album. I had that as well as the "Havlicek Stole the Ball" - all lost in the shuffle of becoming a f***ing adult I say sadly although liife has been good.

 

No, I spent my lunch money on William Shatner albums.

[Maxbialystock]

I listened to Curt Gowdy call most of the Sox games in the summers of 1953 and 1954, but did not watch regularly until around 2004 or so because, except for 1953-54 (and much earlier when I was born in Winthrop), I didn't live in TV range until I bought a satellite package. For many of those years in between I was also overseas--especially 1967. But I do remember watching Sandy Koufax in person in 1961--he pitched in Philly and my school was in NJ. Pretty close to on par with Pedro.

 

I remember most of the Guardians players from 1954 and actually some of them in the summer of 1955 when they played a double header against the Senators and I was visiting a friend in DC. Larry Doby in CF. Avila at 2B, Strickland SS. Vic Wertz 1B. Al Rosen 3B. I think Jim Hegan C.

 

As for the Sox teams of the 1950's, I remember Williams and Piersall.

[Maxbialystock]

This team today is a lot of fun, but too many of us are spoiled rotten by the highly successful John Henry era. You need at least 50 years of Sox fandom and almost 40 years (I have 55) of the curse to realize how good we fans have it today. I had an uncle who lived to almost 90, watched every single game on TV for decades, and died shortly before 2004.

 

It sure looks like these Sox can win at least 100 games, but, as others have already noted, the postseason is a tossup.

[notin]

They might even be good enough to win a playoff series this year ........

 

Remember the good old days when Yankee fans bragged that if they didn’t win the World Series, the season was a failure? It’s getting really funny how far that bar has fallen.

 

“If the Yankees get the Wild Card and just advance farther than Boston, the season is not a failure!!”

[cp176]

Perhaps the biggest disappointment for me was the 1972 Sox. The strike shortened season saw us finish in second place by 1/2 game to the Tigers. They played one more game than us.

 

That team had my boyhood favorite player, Tommy Harper, in CF. (He led the league in SBs the next season with the Sox.)

Fisk at catcher (Bob Montgomery as back-up).

Luis Aparicio and Doug Griffn as the keystone combo.

Rico at 3B.

Yaz in LF

Reggie Smith still with the team (RF)

Ben Oglivie, Rick Miller, Juan Beniquez and Dwight Evans as pehaps the best OF depth ever.

 

The pitching did us in, as always:

 

15-6 Luis Tiant (converted to starter)

17-13 Marty Pattin (another from the Brewer trade)

12-12 Sonny Siebert

11-8 John Curtis

8-7 Lynn McGlothen

5-6 Ray Culp

 

 

Bill Lee in the pen with Gary Peters, Lew Krausse, Newhauser, Tatum, Bolin and big Bob Veale.

 

 

I loved that team as well. I'm still convinced that Doug Griffin would have had a great career as our second baseman had he not been beaned. I also think that Siebert and Culp were better than that. Once again that pitching staff looked pretty good on the proverbial paper.

[cp176]

No, I spent my lunch money on William Shatner albums.

 

 

What were you 10 then you young old coot?

[Spudboy]

What were you 10 then you young old coot?

 

I was 11 in '67.

[cp176]

This team today is a lot of fun, but too many of us are spoiled rotten by the highly successful John Henry era. You need at least 50 years of Sox fandom and almost 40 years (I have 55) of the curse to realize how good we fans have it today. I had an uncle who lived to almost 90, watched every single game on TV for decades, and died shortly before 2004.

 

It sure looks like these Sox can win at least 100 games, but, as others have already noted, the postseason is a tossup.

 

I love this historical perspective. My grandfather was able to experience the earliest championships but obviously never saw another one. Like so many others, he loved that team and listened to every game of every season. My passion for the game came from him.

[cp176]

I was 11 in '67.

 

 

good guess right! I was 11 in in '62 - my best year of little league!

[harmony]

From Fancred columnist Ian Crimmins: "Red Sox continue to wipe floor with the rest of baseball. Are they really this good?"

 

https://fancredsports.com/articles/red-sox-continue-to-wipe-floor-with-the-rest-of

[BillyWilliams]

Remember the good old days when Yankee fans bragged that if they didn’t win the World Series, the season was a failure? It’s getting really funny how far that bar has fallen.

 

“If the Yankees get the Wild Card and just advance farther than Boston, the season is not a failure!!”

 

I never said that and completely disagree.

 

Any season that doesn't end in a championship is still a failure in my book.

 

But I don't see what that has to do with whether or not the sox are good enough to win a playoff series this year .........

Edited July 13, 2018 by BillyWilliams

[moonslav59]

I loved that team as well. I'm still convinced that Doug Griffin would have had a great career as our second baseman had he not been beaned. I also think that Siebert and Culp were better than that. Once again that pitching staff looked pretty good on the proverbial paper.

 

The pitching staff was good, especially after moving Tiant into the rotation, but it was not close to the staffs of 2004, 2007 and 2013.

 

I agree on Doug Griffin. That beaning was a shame.

 

It was too bad much of this core team kind of disintegrated before the '75 youth infusion and near ring. Some just were too old and some were gone by 1975.

 

[mvp 78]

133-29

[kenmeister]

133-29

 

It is definitely feeling that way!

 

I underestimated the 2013 Red Sox right up until the end. I don't think I can limit my enthusiasm for the 2018 Sox however.

[kenmeister]

Today the Sox stand at 64-29 with a .688 record. They have 69 games left. 69 games x .688 = 47.472. Rounding down to 47-22, that projects to 111-51. I agree with Bellhorn, I'll take it.

 

That was July 11th. On July 31st, they are 75-33 with a .694 record. That actually only ticks them up to 112-50. Still have to find another 9 wins to beat the all-time record of 120 wins

[mvp 78]

That was July 11th. On July 31st, they are 75-33 with a .694 record. That actually only ticks them up to 112-50. Still have to find another 9 wins to beat the all-time record of 120 wins

 

I thought the record was 116?

[kenmeister]

I thought the record was 116?

 

Huh, you're right. I must have been confused. I'm really surprised the Mariners got 116 wins and didn't even make the World Series.

[mvp 78]

Huh, you're right. I must have been confused. I'm really surprised the Mariners got 116 wins and didn't even make the World Series.

 

Some of us just show our age. It's more surprising now that 2 AL West teams had 100+ wins that year.

[Bellhorn04]

Huh, you're right. I must have been confused.

 

You may have been thinking of the Mets' record of 120 losses.

[kenmeister]

You may have been thinking of the Mets' record of 120 losses.

 

Probably. At any rate, the 1906 Cubs team went 116-36 for a .763 win percentage. Projected to a 162 game season, .763 x 162 = 123.6 games. So to truly beat the 1906 Cubs, you need to win 124 games. Gulp. And by the way, the Cubs lost the world series that year.

[mvp 78]

Probably. At any rate, the 1906 Cubs team went 116-36 for a .763 win percentage. Projected to a 162 game season, .763 x 162 = 123.6 games. So to truly beat the 1906 Cubs, you need to win 124 games. Gulp. And by the way, the Cubs lost the world series that year.

 

If only they did that for home runs amirite.

[notin]

You may have been thinking of the Mets' record of 120 losses.

 

The 2003 Tigers challenged that with 119 losses. Guess who their GM was.

 

If the Sox can win 110 games, I think it’s a safe bet Dombrowski would be the only GM in MLB history to put together teams that won 110 games and lost 110 games...

[jacksonianmarch]

The Sox will win over 100. Thing is, the playoffs have become a pen game and the Sox pen doesn’t have enough in it to win on their own.

[mvp 78]

The Sox will win over 100. Thing is, the playoffs have become a pen game and the Sox pen doesn’t have enough in it to win on their own.

 

This pen isn't as good as 2004?