Dave Dombrowski

[Bellhorn04]

It’s not like we traded a bag of balls for him.

 

Obviously. Do you think it was an overpay?

[notin]

I agree in general with this. Finding diamonds in the rough isn’t quite the right saying, but close enough I’ll go with it. Although I still think the Sale trade was his best, these low key mid-season acquisitions are equally as important if you’re trying to build a winner.

 

Agreed. I like these moves.

 

Pearce especially since he has made his mark against the Yankees...

[Bellhorn04]

In that respect, isn’t this more about Henry than Dombrowski? Cherington was building a long term pipeline.

 

In fact, trying to keep Cherington on was one of Dombrowsk’s better ideas, since Cherington was good at scouting and drafting, whereas Dombrowski has a sportier record there. But then, according to many, Dombrowski fired Cherington, which, all things considered, was not a smart move.

 

So according to you, Henry mandated the change, Cherington was fired for making it possible, and Dombrowski gets all the credit. That about right?

 

Yeah right. That's exactly what I said.

[notin]

No, I think there's a whole other point. Credit should be given for seizing a great opportunity. Supposedly many other GM's could have gotten Sale too. But guess what, they didn't. They were snoozing, I guess.

 

How many of these other teams had two top 20 prospects including a top five?

[Emp9]

Overpay might not be the right word. But I would guess that nobody matched our very very good trade offer for Sale.

 

I’m of the opinion that an Ace #1 SP is worth more to any team than a Closer. The amount of innings thrown alone, on principle...

 

I don’t think we over paid for Sale. I love Kimbrel but I do think it was an over pay and maybe cart before the horse in a way too. I’m not saying Kimbrel was a bad move, especially in hindsight, but when I compare both the Kimbrel & Sale moves side by side, on principle, one trade was clearly better than the other.

[Bellhorn04]

How many of these other teams had two top 20 prospects including a top five?

 

Instead of just popping questions, why not just supply the answer if you have it. But you'll have to expand this to how many teams could put together a comparable package including packages of 3 or 4.

[SoxHop]

1. Don't trade for Kimbrel.

2. Find the Eovaldi's and Porcello's of the world. They are out there.

 

Sometimes you end up with the Mastersons though.

[Bellhorn04]

Any GM could have signed Koji Uehara before the 2013 season too. Does Ben deserve a lot of credit for being the guy who actually did it? Damn right IMO. If you can't give someone credit for pulling the trigger on a good move, what can you give credit for?

[SoxHop]

That's not the point. It doesn't take a whole lot of genius to spend (overpay) other people's money or prospects to get a player. I could do that.

 

THIS!!! DD isn't a genius. He came into a good situation and was told to do whatever needed to take this team to a new level. I'm not even sure if how he did it is better than any other person could have done it. It's not hard to go out and buy the most expensive stuff when you can morgage the house.

 

And another thing I agree about, it's the fringe players GMs get that make or break a season. Pearce, Eovavaldi, Nunez, Napoli, Moreland. Correctly picking those kind of players is the true difficult task.

[SoxHop]

Any GM could have signed Koji Uehara before the 2013 season too. Does Ben deserve a lot of credit for being the guy who actually did it? Damn right IMO. If you can't give someone credit for pulling the trigger on a good move, what can you give credit for?

 

Damn right!

[Emp9]

Sometimes you end up with the Mastersons though.

 

Ugh. Now that WAS a s*** move. But unlike Porcello & Eovaldi, there was nothing to point to to justify it.

[dgalehouse]

We have the best team in baseball. But it is hard to please everybody.

[Bellhorn04]

THIS!!! DD isn't a genius. He came into a good situation and was told to do whatever needed to take this team to a new level. I'm not even sure if how he did it is better than any other person could have done it. It's not hard to go out and buy the most expensive stuff when you can morgage the house.

 

But as you alluded to with the Masterson reference, sometimes you make the wrong picks. And you can do this when you're spending big too. HanRam, Panda, Castillo cost a quarter billion after all.

[Emp9]

We have the best team in baseball. But it is hard to please everybody.

 

No no, count me as pleased. I’m more than pleased. I’m f***ing ecstatic right now! Are you kidding?

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

A-roid?

 

Chris Davis. As for overpaying for Sale, the SOX could have paid less and gotten Sonny Grey.

[dgalehouse]

No no, count me as pleased. I’m more than pleased. I’m f***ing ecstatic right now! Are you kidding?

 

But some are sadly lamenting the loss of the Javier Guerras from our once ripe farm crop.

[jd98]

Side note - which acquistion took more baseball accumen - emptying the farm for Chris Sale or trading a pending free agent for Rick Porcello? Chris Sale and his talent were hardly a secret to anyone with a pulse. But why is it when a GM acquires a player like Porcello and watches him turn into a high level pitcher, it is written off as "luck"?

 

Porcello was also a pending free agent when traded for. We had a glut of OF and hardly no SP, so I don't see trading a pending free agent OF for a pending free agent SP as any kind of GM wizadry. As for the extension, should we just forget that Porcello has been terrible for 2 out of his 4 years, and that he's making over $20M per year.

[cp176]

Instead of just popping questions, why not just supply the answer if you have it. But you'll have to expand this to how many teams could put together a comparable package including packages of 3 or 4.

 

Reading your posts has made it much more clear to me. Dave Dombrowski has done an excellent job as the GM of this team. I absolutely believe that he will continue to do so as we move forward. I am enjoying a good old solid dose of New England dominance. Our lineup is filled with players who seem to be of pretty good character. they work hard and they like each other. Our team being in the hands of our current ownership, Cora, and DD indicates to me that we will be just fine as we head into the future. I have every expectation that we will compete at a high level for years to come and there will obviously be plenty of griping about how the franchise does what it does. Personally I will continue to enjoy the types of players that make up our roster and I could care less about how they are all acquired. Just a fan here who doesn't believe in playing GM particularly through the use of hindsight. Obviously contract signings are going to just continue getting tougher for every competitive team. I'm just glad that we have someone who is more than competent at what they do leading the way.

[dgalehouse]

Not much has been said about how DD signed Cora before the Yankees had a shot at him. The Yanks wound up settling for Booney. The results speak for themselves.

[moonslav59]

Porcello was also a pending free agent when traded for. We had a glut of OF and hardly no SP, so I don't see trading a pending free agent OF for a pending free agent SP as any kind of GM wizadry. As for the extension, should we just forget that Porcello has been terrible for 2 out of his 4 years, and that he's making over $20M per year.

 

He was close to "terrible" in one year.

 

He was okay one year.

 

He was Cy Young one year.

 

He is doing very well, so far, this year.

 

It was a very good extension then and still is now.

[SoxHop]

Not much has been said about how DD signed Cora before the Yankees had a shot at him. The Yanks wound up settling for Booney. The results speak for themselves.

 

Cora has done s***.

 

Lets see if he gets us out of the first round of playoffs and talk about how good Cora is.

 

And I'm a Cora fan boy. Super glad he got thrown out during the attempted Mookie beaming...... it was the right thing to do. I just wished he went out and knowcked out Severino after being tossed.

[jd98]

He was close to "terrible" in one year.

 

He was okay one year.

 

He was Cy Young one year.

 

He is doing very well, so far, this year.

 

It was a very good extension then and still is now.

 

I honestly have no idea which of 2015 or 2017 you are referring to as okay. Depending on what stats you prefer, you can argue either year being better than the other, but I'm not seeing any big difference where one is close to terrible and the other is ok. They both look pretty bad to me.

[moonslav59]

I honestly have no idea which of 2015 or 2017 you are referring to as okay. Depending on what stats you prefer, you can argue either year being better than the other, but I'm not seeing any big difference where one is close to terrible and the other is ok. They both look pretty bad to me.

 

First off, in his two "terrible years" he had WAR numbers of 1.6 (2015) and 2.0 (2017).

 

I'm calling his 2017 season "okay"- maybe not for a $20M pitcher, but an ERA+ of 99 (BR) and an ERA- of 102 (fangraphs) is okay, to me.

 

If I had to revise my statement, I might say 2015 was closer to okay than "terrible", but maybe we have different views on what terrible means. Yes, 2015 was "pretty bad", but that's not terrible.

 

2017 could be called "pretty bad" too, especially for a guy making $20M, but overall, Porcello has earned his money. He's got an 11.1 WAR in his 3.7 years with the Sox.

 

ERA+

97 with Detroit

109 with Boston

[Slasher9]

Obviously. Do you think it was an overpay?

 

Nope. I would have preferred to have used the chips we wasted on Pom and the overpay of kimbrel and still had moncada tho.

[Bellhorn04]

Moncada is striking out at an incredible rate - it's higher than Mark Reynolds rate when he set the all-time K record of 223.

[moonslav59]

Moncada is striking out at an incredible rate - it's higher than Mark Reynolds rate when he set the all-time K record of 223.

 

2B OPS

.717 Kinsler

.710 Moncada

.705 Holt

.663 Nunez

 

 

2B UZR/150

9.6 Kinsler

1.0 Holt

-1.5 Nunez

-13.0 Moncada

[dgalehouse]

I am sure that when a GM trades prospects he gets input from the farm director , the minor league managers and scouts. It is common for fans to overrate these kids. Maybe they are not as highly regarded in the organization as we like to think.

[moonslav59]

I am sure that when a GM trades prospects he gets input from the farm director , the minor league managers and scouts. It is common for fans to overrate these kids. Maybe they are not as highly regarded in the organization as we like to think.

 

...and sometimes an organization trades prospects the do highly regard out of the perception of a greater need.

[Spudboy]

Instead of just popping questions, why not just supply the answer if you have it. But you'll have to expand this to how many teams could put together a comparable package including packages of 3 or 4.

 

:)

[jd98]

First off, in his two "terrible years" he had WAR numbers of 1.6 (2015) and 2.0 (2017).

 

I'm calling his 2017 season "okay"- maybe not for a $20M pitcher, but an ERA+ of 99 (BR) and an ERA- of 102 (fangraphs) is okay, to me.

 

If I had to revise my statement, I might say 2015 was closer to okay than "terrible", but maybe we have different views on what terrible means. Yes, 2015 was "pretty bad", but that's not terrible.

 

2017 could be called "pretty bad" too, especially for a guy making $20M, but overall, Porcello has earned his money. He's got an 11.1 WAR in his 3.7 years with the Sox.

 

ERA+

97 with Detroit

109 with Boston

 

No, he had WAR numbers of 0.5 and -0.2 in 2015 and 2017 (see what I did there), which is closer to terrible than ok (I don't want to turn this into another 'WAR is worthless' argument, but yeah.., just please everybody at least put a prefix letter in front)

 

In 2017 his ERA+ was somehow average, which seems ok, so I thought that's what you were referring to, but his peripherals were mostly worse, his FIP was a good bit worse, because he led the league in HR allowed, and his WHIP was worse (almost 1.4) and his bWAR was worse (negative even), so maybe 2015 then, but his fWAR was better in 2017, so maybe 2017, but if you prefer fWAR then you should prefer FIP, so maybe 2015, so yeah I had no idea which one was ok. I'll upgrade his two 'terrible' seasons to 'pretty bad'. Terrible was too harsh, he could've definitely been worse.

 

I thought the extension was a bad move at the time and I still think it was a bad move (if he was allowed to become a FA, what would he have got on the open market). Although I think it's worked out just fine so far.