Tyler Thornburg Returns

[Bellhorn04]

The prospects, but also the salary on top of that. Double whammy.

 

Not a full double whammy. Kimbrel's contract was actually below market considering what Chapman and Davis got.

 

Maybe a 1.5 whammy...

[Bellhorn04]

those guys could have been used to get Pom....we could still have Espy.

those guys could have been used to get Sale...we could still have Moncada.

 

And what about Kimbrel?

[Slasher9]

And what about Kimbrel?

 

i think the point trying to make is that he could have been had for less prospects.

[Bellhorn04]

i think the point trying to make is that he could have been had for less prospects.

 

San Diego was obviously holding out for a big package. Maybe DD could have whittled them down by one prospect if he waited them out. Or maybe someone else jumps in and gets Kimbrel.

 

You're kind of making it sound like DD should have gotten Kimbrel for next to nothing.

[a700hitter]

It's not a matter of whether we needed the prospects on our team or not, nor is it a matter of how well the prospects are doing after the fact. It's about getting proper value in return.

He got arguably the best closer in baseball (and possibly one of the all time best) for 3 years at a below market salary for a bag of balls except maybe for Logan Allen. The others are nothing. That is maximizing value imo. You weren't going to get Sale for that bag of trash.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

San Diego was obviously holding out for a big package. Maybe DD could have whittled them down by one prospect if he waited them out. Or maybe someone else jumps in and gets Kimbrel.

 

You're kind of making it sound like DD should have gotten Kimbrel for next to nothing.

 

 

Hey, we're the SOX. Other teams should respect that and just give us their best players for next to nothing.

[S5Dewey]

Hey, we're the SOX. Other teams should respect that and just give us their best players for next to nothing.

 

When that happens people will say that we have the Yankees attitude.

[Nick]

We must have several millionaires on this board.

 

Posters here have the uncanny ability to buy at the lowest point and sell at the highest point. Too bad DD has to work for his money because he can't see the future.

[notin]

Margot is having an injury plagued season, but last year he was pretty good. I think that kid ends up a solid big league regular.

 

Margot’s season is about the same as JBJ’s.

[jacksonianmarch]

Margot’s season is about the same as JBJ’s.

 

Margot has had the qualifier of being injured. JBJ hasn't been injured as far as we know

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

those guys could have been used to get Pom....we could still have Espy.

those guys could have been used to get Sale...we could still have Moncada.

 

Both of these are speculation, we don't know if the players dealt for Kimbrell woiuld have been enough to get Sale. I was one of the few in favor of this trade at the time, I'm a firm believer that you need an established closer to win in October and history has shown that with a few exceptions.

 

As for Thornburg he is needed for sure. I'm not sure what his role will be but every title team we've had seemed to always have guys to come in with 2 on and 1 out in the 5th or 6th and shut it all down. Bullpen depth is critical in the post season.

[cp176]

i think the point trying to make is that he could have been had for less prospects.

 

So based on the Dombrowski moves to date do you really think that any GM could get any more than he has gotten? I understand that not every move works out as well as we would like them to but moves absolutely needed to be made. I understand that you don't seem to like much of what he has done but what were the options? Suffer with what might amount to lifelong minor league players or actually do something to keep us competetive.

[notin]

So based on the Dombrowski moves to date do you really think that any GM could get any more than he has gotten? I understand that not every move works out as well as we would like them to but moves absolutely needed to be made. I understand that you don't seem to like much of what he has done but what were the options? Suffer with what might amount to lifelong minor league players or actually do something to keep us competetive.

 

A big part is that fans overvalue closers. Kimbrel has been great, but at the time the Sox has bigger issues in the rotation and spending valuable trade chips on a closer (and picking up the entire contract to boot) was not necessarily the best use of his resources...

[Slasher9]

So based on the Dombrowski moves to date do you really think that any GM could get any more than he has gotten? I understand that not every move works out as well as we would like them to but moves absolutely needed to be made. I understand that you don't seem to like much of what he has done but what were the options? Suffer with what might amount to lifelong minor league players or actually do something to keep us competetive.

 

i like the idea of getting Kimbrel. we had to have a shutdown closer. i think we overpaid for him.

i hated the Pom deal. he was an injured player that only recently went from RP to SP. he only had 2 pitches. he still only has 2 pitches. he is also still injured. you cannot be a successful MLB SP with only 2 pitches and/or injured.

i loved the Sale deal. had to be done. wish we could have used some of the other prospects that we blew on Kimbrel and Pom instead of Moncada. sure would be nice to have moncada at 2b this year.

i absolutely unequivocally hated the Price signing.

[cp176]

i like the idea of getting Kimbrel. we had to have a shutdown closer. i think we overpaid for him.

i hated the Pom deal. he was an injured player that only recently went from RP to SP. he only had 2 pitches. he still only has 2 pitches. he is also still injured. you cannot be a successful MLB SP with only 2 pitches and/or injured.

i loved the Sale deal. had to be done. wish we could have used some of the other prospects that we blew on Kimbrel and Pom instead of Moncada. sure would be nice to have moncada at 2b this year.

i absolutely unequivocally hated the Price signing.

 

Good opinions and I think that lots of people share them. I totally understand where you are coming from. I like what he has done so I think that I could put a positive spin on all of those deals.

[cp176]

A big part is that fans overvalue closers. Kimbrel has been great, but at the time the Sox has bigger issues in the rotation and spending valuable trade chips on a closer (and picking up the entire contract to boot) was not necessarily the best use of his resources...

 

 

I can understand this approach but at the same time it is also possible that without Kimbrel at the backend of games we wouldn't look quite as dominant as we do. Personally I didn't mind the overpay (and I agree that it was) but felt it had to be done. There are lots of wannabe closers out there but we seem to have the real deal.

[jacksonianmarch]

Kimbrel was a great move even if he "overpaid". Getting him meant games were over after 8 innings

[S5Dewey]

Whether they're overpaid depends on how much money the parent company is making. Is Kimbrel overpaid if his saves get us to - and WIN - the World Series? Or do we continue to speculate that an "unknown someone" might have done as well and therefore Kimbrel must be overpaid?

 

I'll take one in the hand being worth two in the bush (in everything except sex) and take the known quantity.

 

As I've said before here, IMHO most professional athletes are overpaid (and pampered) when compared to those people who actually do something to help society like doctors, teachers, and medical research professionals. We're just talking about how much they're overpaid.

Edited July 6, 2018 by S5Dewey

[Behindenemylines]

Good to see Thornburg pitch in a game for the Sox. Sox have a few weeks to determine if he is the piece needed in the pen. If he is the guy it will save the Sox having to move other pieces to improve the pen. It would be nice if he worked out since the piece move to get him has done pretty good in Milwaukee.

[Bellhorn04]

A big part is that fans overvalue closers. Kimbrel has been great, but at the time the Sox has bigger issues in the rotation and spending valuable trade chips on a closer (and picking up the entire contract to boot) was not necessarily the best use of his resources...

 

It has proven to be a very favorable contract though.

[Slasher9]

It has proven to be a very favorable contract though.

 

Yes. The market since the trade has dictated the AAV now favors management. If we hadn’t given up prospects and just took on the contract this would be a big win

[notin]

Whether they're overpaid depends on how much money the parent company is making. Is Kimbrel overpaid if his saves get us to - and WIN - the World Series? Or do we continue to speculate that an "unknown someone" might have done as well and therefore Kimbrel must be overpaid?

 

I'll take one in the hand being worth two in the bush (in everything except sex) and take the known quantity.

 

As I've said before here, IMHO most professional athletes are overpaid (and pampered) when compared to those people who actually do something to help society like doctors, teachers, and medical research professionals. We're just talking about how much they're overpaid.

 

When fans say the Sox overpaid for Kimbrel, they mean the Sox gave up too many prospects...,

[Jack Flap]

Makes one want to throw another F you to C.Smith for his self-inflicted injury.

 

FWIW... he threw a glove, didn't he? That's a bit different in my mind than if he'd punched a wall or a water cooler or something like that. Sounds like the way it happened it was kind of a freak occurrence and more horrible luck than anything else.

[Kimmi]

A big part is that fans overvalue closers. Kimbrel has been great, but at the time the Sox has bigger issues in the rotation and spending valuable trade chips on a closer (and picking up the entire contract to boot) was not necessarily the best use of his resources...

 

^^This.