David Price velocity thread

[S5Dewey]

If it were that easy to find the hidden gem everyone would be doing it. I often think that it's more a matter of 'stepping in it' than finding it.

 

The FO "found" Rich Hill, Doug Fister and Koji just by throwing things against the wall and three of them stuck. The only hidden gem they "found" was Andrew Miller, and that was because they saw a curable flaw in his delivery, and even then they had to repeatedly call him to show up for a tryout.

[jacksonianmarch]

If it were that easy to find the hidden gem everyone would be doing it. I often think that it's more a matter of 'stepping in it' than finding it.

 

The FO "found" Rich Hill, Doug Fister and Koji just by throwing things against the wall and three of them stuck. The only hidden gem they "found" was Andrew Miller, and that was because they saw a curable flaw in his delivery, and even then they had to repeatedly call him to show up for a tryout.

 

The sox didn't see a curable flaw. They saw that he could repeat his delivery in the stretch and that he was deadly when focusing on only two pitches.

[jacksonianmarch]

If it were that easy to find the hidden gem everyone would be doing it. I often think that it's more a matter of 'stepping in it' than finding it.

 

The FO "found" Rich Hill, Doug Fister and Koji just by throwing things against the wall and three of them stuck. The only hidden gem they "found" was Andrew Miller, and that was because they saw a curable flaw in his delivery, and even then they had to repeatedly call him to show up for a tryout.

 

Also, there are stories, but they are incredibly rare of guys with middling talent or production out there who find it and have successful runs with teams. I know Arroyo was one for you guys and Hill reinvented himself, but those are rare. With how baseball is now, your best bet is to develop the pitching talent so you can deal it for young pitching talent or use it. FA pitching talent is frought with dangers mostly since an ace pitcher is one arm injury away from being replacement level

[S5Dewey]

The sox didn't see a curable flaw. They saw that he could repeat his delivery in the stretch and that he was deadly when focusing on only two pitches.

 

Meh. Call it what you will but Miller thought he was done in baseball and the Sox persuaded him to come back because they saw "something" that made them think he could pitch again.

 

I read that article some time ago and knew I should bookmark it.. but I didn't. Damn it.

[Slasher9]

That's exactly my feeling. The "Hidden Gems", who can be acquired for relatively cheap, are out there. Dombrowski and his crew need to find them.

 

DD gave Price $217MM. will go down as the worst contract ever.

DD overpaid for Kimbrell. (this statement is debatable)

DD traded a top prospect for an injured RP recently transitioned to SP.

DD traded for Sale. (this is the one everyone agrees was a layup).

I have little faith DD will find a cheap hidden gem.

[mvp 78]

DD gave Price $217MM. will go down as the worst contract ever.

DD overpaid for Kimbrell. (this statement is debatable)

DD traded a top prospect for an injured RP recently transitioned to SP.

DD traded for Sale. (this is the one everyone agrees was a layup).

I have little faith DD will find a cheap hidden gem.

 

David Price Exit Velocity Thread

[Slasher9]

David Price Exit Velocity Thread

 

right. because all posts on this site always have something to do with the thread title. thanks.

[a700hitter]

What "hidden gem" starting pitchers did Theo or Ben find while at the helm for the Sox? If your strategy is to build your pitching staff with "hidden gems", good pitching will be hidden from your rotation. Few top pitchers are developed throughout baseball. The Red Sox develop one about every 15 years. If we want to have a top pitching staff, we need to trade for it or buy it. Thankfully, the Red Sox franchise has the resources to do both.

[jacksonianmarch]

What "hidden gem" starting pitchers did Theo or Ben find while at the helm for the Sox? If your strategy is to build your pitching staff with "hidden gems", good pitching will be hidden from your rotation. Few top pitchers are developed throughout baseball. The Red Sox develop one about every 15 years. If we want to have a top pitching staff, we need to trade for it or buy it. Thankfully, the Red Sox franchise has the resources to do both.

 

Had the resources to do both. Now you’re too close to the top penalty and your prospect pool is dead.

[a700hitter]

Had the resources to do both. Now you’re too close to the top penalty and your prospect pool is dead.

the down-side of being in a window period to win. Seriously, I disagree with you. We will always have some prospects that we can pump and dump for established players.

[moonslav59]

Could Velazquez be a "hidden Gem?"

 

Could Groome be the "once in 15 years" gem?

 

Could Beeks become a decent 3/4 guy?

 

Houck, Shawryn, Hernandez and Scherff might produce one decent ML pitcher.

 

Mata is far away but promising.

 

All is not totally bleak, but nothing looks close to a grade A prospect either.

[Natick to NC]

Neck Tat is no longer hidden the guys better than price and PoM.

[Larry Cook]

Could Velazquez be a "hidden Gem?"

 

Could Groome be the "once in 15 years" gem?

 

Could Beeks become a decent 3/4 guy?

 

Houck, Shawryn, Hernandez and Scherff might produce one decent ML pitcher.

 

Mata is far away but promising.

 

All is not totally bleak, but nothing looks close to a grade A prospect either.

 

We had three years of drafting in the top 15. We have one miss - ball

One probable hit - benintendi

And one tbd - groome

 

We are not drafting in the top 15 for the next two years at least. So it is imperative that dave and what’s left of the baseball operations department deliver some better talent this June than last June.

[notin]

What "hidden gem" starting pitchers did Theo or Ben find while at the helm for the Sox? .

 

Bronson Arroyo, Rich Hill

[notin]

the down-side of being in a window period to win. Seriously, I disagree with you. We will always have some prospects that we can pump and dump for established players.

 

What prospects do the Sox have now that they can dump for established players?

 

Sure we can probably get another Addison Reed, which might be enough. But if we need another really big name starter (which we don't), the Sox don't have the prospects to get one. ...

[jacksonianmarch]

Exactly. You had two top 100 prospects, one who is staring at TJS and another on an 80 game roid suspension after a power surge. There aren’t any other top 100s in system or even close to it. You might be able to get a rental reliever, but you’re not getting anything else of value beyond a salary dump or an underperforming player

[Sox75]

I find these threads on Price almost as depressing as the Panda era.

 

In fairness, we all had serious doubts about Pablo from the day of his signing. Everyone who looked critically at his declining numbers & compromised body knew it was likely a mistake. A YUGE mistake. So, we weren't at all surprised when that went south.

 

With Price, we all knew that we had paid too much for a guy who never delivered in the post season, but he was at least a big marquee guy. He might not be your classic ACE, but he should be a dependable '#1' none the less.

 

Healthy or not, Price has been a huge disappointment. More often than not, I personally have less confidence in Price than a good #4. A number 4 like say.... E-Rod, Wright, V-Quez, or just about any other #4 out there, pitching for a quality team. Perhaps not ANY #4, but a decent #4 on a good team.

 

Frankly, I'm tired of the constant talk about amorphous 'possible injuries.' It just gets old, and it seems to be a CONSTANT easy excuse for Price? If the guy IS injured, then where is the surgery? Was there surgery for ANY of the long list of 'injuries' David has 'suffered through' during his Red Sox tenure? I'm just getting tired of it. When exactly do we get to finally declare that Price simply BLOWS with respect to his contract? Hell. Just have surgery, get 'healthy,' then opt out of your contract. Take what the market will bear (bare.... you pick).

 

Do I think the Sox are better with a good David Price? Absolutely. Would I prefer that the excuses stop, & Price pitches as a GOOD #4, who is capable of giving the Sox 7 innings w 3 ER'S against decent / good competition? THAT would be f***ing fantastic!

 

Otherwise, I'd just as soon save Price for teams like Toronto or Baltimore. Pitch V-Quez & E-Rod in the Yankee series & move on.

[Bellhorn04]

Yeah, it's true, he doesn't inspire much confidence, I'm afraid. You hope for the best because what else can you do.

[mvp 78]

right. because all posts on this site always have something to do with the thread title. thanks.

 

You were complaining it was a bad deal to sign Price (probably right). I was just commenting that he was pitching very poorly by changing the title from "David Price Velocity Thread" to "David Price Exit Velocity Thread." No reason to take offense.

[Slasher9]

You were complaining it was a bad deal to sign Price (probably right). I was just commenting that he was pitching very poorly by changing the title from "David Price Velocity Thread" to "David Price Exit Velocity Thread." No reason to take offense.

my bad. and I apologize. I missed the wit. and it was good wit.

[Spudboy]

my bad. and I apologize. I missed the wit. and it was good wit.

 

Lol.

 

It happens with MVP. He's a f***ing smart guy with a great sense of humor but sometimes his wit sails right by me.

[Sox75]

my bad. and I apologize. I missed the wit. and it was good wit.

 

I'm just pissed that I didn't say "exit velocity" after it popped into my tiny pea brain! Or did it? Now I can't remember if I actually ever thought it, or is it just so obvious that I think I thought it?

 

Anyway, now I think I might simply be suffering from WPES (Witty Post Envy Syndrome)? Or just MLS (Mid-Life Brain Syndrome)?

[mvp 78]

Berenstein Bears

 

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/mvx7v8/the-berensteain-bears-conspiracy-theory-that-has-convinced-the-internet-there-are-parallel-universes

[bkzwhitestrican]

Berenstein Bears

 

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/mvx7v8/the-berensteain-bears-conspiracy-theory-that-has-convinced-the-internet-there-are-parallel-universes

 

This s*** keeps me up at night. I distinctly remember it being Bernstein bears. Then all of a sudden it became Berenstein bears. And now it's Berenstain bears??!! What the $#^& is going on?!

[a700hitter]

What prospects do the Sox have now that they can dump for established players?

 

Sure we can probably get another Addison Reed, which might be enough. But if we need another really big name starter (which we don't), the Sox don't have the prospects to get one. ...

Any of our top 5 prospects could be pumped and dumped. We may not have a single blue chipper that could land a big fish, but a good GM could package one or more of them maybe together with some major league talent. There will always be a pool of talent coming into the organization through the draft and International draft. The quality will depend on the quality of our scouting etc.

[notin]

Any of our top 5 prospects could be pumped and dumped. We may not have a single blue chipper that could land a big fish, but a good GM could package one or more of them maybe together with some major league talent. There will always be a pool of talent coming into the organization through the draft and International draft. The quality will depend on the quality of our scouting etc.

 

OK you are making it sound like Sox top 5 prospects - Groome, Chavis, Mata, Houck and Travis - are used cars and Dombrowski can spin up their value.

 

Of those 5, only Travis is close to MLB, and he has to pump up his own statistical portfolio before any one is interested. Outside of his minimum wage price tag, he doesn't look much like anything special in MLB. Every team has a Sam Travis in their system already. Chavis was a guy a tagged to be good trade bait for a variety of reasons. But he's not marketable at all. Groome is the one guy the Sox have who is worthwhile in a deal. His distance from MLB is a huge factor, but he is an upside potential player. Of course, it would help his case a lot if he would actually pitch at some point in his career. 62IP across 2+ seasons isn't going to entice anyone, regardless of what the GM says. Mata and Houck need to get bettrer. Granted, both are still in A-ball, but these two guys have combined to walk 37 hitters in 45 innings!! Like with Travis, players like these two may not be so rare or on anyne's wish list.

 

The Sox can probably swing deals for a reliever or some average help. In no way can they add any sort of big name quality player. And packaging multiple prospects won't help. When it comes to trading, four quarters do not equal a dollar. Yes, there will always be a stream of players coming up through the ranks. This does not guarantee any of them will ever be among the best 750 players in the world.

 

Of course, a big part of the reason is that the Sox did unload a lot of farm system parts in a relatively short span, acquiring Kimbrel, Pomeranz and Sale. Hopefully these acquisitions negate the need to add any bigger arms...

[Jasonbay44]

Evan Drellich

‏Verified account @EvanDrellich

12m12 minutes ago

 

David Price sent home. Scratched from tomorrow's start. The numbness in his hand has come back. Getting tested. Rick Porcello pitching instead.

 

I've been a Price supporter, but even I am getting fed up with this s***, every week its something with this dude.

[a700hitter]

 

I've been a Price supporter, but even I am getting fed up with this s***, every week its something with this dude.

What are the betting odds on Thoracic Outlet Syndrome Surgery?

[a700hitter]

OK you are making it sound like Sox top 5 prospects - Groome, Chavis, Mata, Houck and Travis - are used cars and Dombrowski can spin up their value.

 

Of those 5, only Travis is close to MLB, and he has to pump up his own statistical portfolio before any one is interested. Outside of his minimum wage price tag, he doesn't look much like anything special in MLB. Every team has a Sam Travis in their system already. Chavis was a guy a tagged to be good trade bait for a variety of reasons. But he's not marketable at all. Groome is the one guy the Sox have who is worthwhile in a deal. His distance from MLB is a huge factor, but he is an upside potential player. Of course, it would help his case a lot if he would actually pitch at some point in his career. 62IP across 2+ seasons isn't going to entice anyone, regardless of what the GM says. Mata and Houck need to get bettrer. Granted, both are still in A-ball, but these two guys have combined to walk 37 hitters in 45 innings!! Like with Travis, players like these two may not be so rare or on anyne's wish list.

 

The Sox can probably swing deals for a reliever or some average help. In no way can they add any sort of big name quality player. And packaging multiple prospects won't help. When it comes to trading, four quarters do not equal a dollar. Yes, there will always be a stream of players coming up through the ranks. This does not guarantee any of them will ever be among the best 750 players in the world.

 

Of course, a big part of the reason is that the Sox did unload a lot of farm system parts in a relatively short span, acquiring Kimbrel, Pomeranz and Sale. Hopefully these acquisitions negate the need to add any bigger arms...

It is the job of a FO to pump up the value of the prospects who they want to move.

[bkzwhitestrican]

It's not a good look for Price that this tingling sensation has twice flared up during games against the Yankees. I won't question his competitiveness because these guys are all alpha males, but you know people will inevitably draw conclusions from this.