The Alex Cora Managerial Decision Thread

[moonslav59]

I don't know about the fire and desire part. I can't imagine that the guys didn't have the fire and desire last season. That said, I do think that Cora has created a better clubhouse atmosphere than what the team experienced last year. I think last year many of the guys were trying too hard and were unable to have any fun (by their own accounts).

 

You don't have to sell me on Cora. I'm a believer.

 

I have seen a marked difference in genuine enthusiasm and focus vs the fun bunch of yesteryear making bonehead plays left and right.

[Kimmi]

I have seen a marked difference in genuine enthusiasm and focus vs the fun bunch of yesteryear making bonehead plays left and right.

 

They are having more fun this year. I don't think that that means they lacked the fire and desire last year.

[dgalehouse]

Cora brings an energy and enthusiasm that Farrell no longer had. The players see it and react accordingly.

[moonslav59]

They are having more fun this year. I don't think that that means they lacked the fire and desire last year.

 

I disagree. They were seemingly having too much "fun" last year and not enough seriousness and focus. They forgot how many outs there were, what base to throw to, and so many blunders I can't even remember.

 

I'm glad they got rid of the OF dance.

 

I know winning makes everyone look better, but almost the entire team was on the downswing last year.

 

I see an immense uptick in fire, enthusiasm and energy. Desire is hard to see or evaluate, but it's one of those things you know when you see it.

 

I guess we see things differently on this issue, but I see a night and day comparison, and I think Cora was a big influence on the change. I can see, smell and taste the increased focus.

[cp176]

I disagree. They were seemingly having too much "fun" last year and not enough seriousness and focus. They forgot how many outs there were, what base to throw to, and so many blunders I can't even remember.

 

I'm glad they got rid of the OF dance.

 

I know winning makes everyone look better, but almost the entire team was on the downswing last year.

 

I see an immense uptick in fire, enthusiasm and energy. Desire is hard to see or evaluate, but it's one of those things you know when you see it.

 

I guess we see things differently on this issue, but I see a night and day comparison, and I think Cora was a big influence on the change. I can see, smell and taste the increased focus.

 

At the risk of being accused of condescending because I tend to look at things through a coaches eye regardless of what sport it is, no coach I know wants to have to deal with silly little outward attention grabbing displays by their athletes. It is just the way it is. Look at me look at me look at me = ******** and overrides team focus. Fans see these displays as fun and individuals being individuals but most coaches don't. I'm pretty sure that this team has as much fun doing everything that everybody has done but they don't do it to entertain us. They probably have quite the time in the locker room. Overall they play hard and pretty solidly from a fundamental standpoint. They are professional athletes who look like they are doing things the right way. I think that they are having lots of fun!

[S5Dewey]

At the risk of being accused of condescending because I tend to look at things through a coaches eye regardless of what sport it is, no coach I know wants to have to deal with silly little outward attention grabbing displays by their athletes. It is just the way it is. Look at me look at me look at me = ******** and overrides team focus. Fans see these displays as fun and individuals being individuals but most coaches don't. I'm pretty sure that this team has as much fun doing everything that everybody has done but they don't do it to entertain us. They probably have quite the time in the locker room. Overall they play hard and pretty solidly from a fundamental standpoint. They are professional athletes who look like they are doing things the right way. I think that they are having lots of fun!

 

This post is spot-on. When is the last time you heard someone say, "I wish I had more problems in my job." Little distractions are big headaches for a coach, headaches they neither want nor need. Cora's biggest (IMO) job as manager is to manage the clubhouse and managing the clubhouse is easier when the players are happy. Cora seems to be bridging the gap between the FO and the players very well, taking care of brush fires before they become conflagrations. He's maintaining harmony in the clubhouse which makes the players want to play for one another. They've bonded as a unit and they're having fun. And it shows in their play.

 

I'm fairly certain that someone will respond to this with some anecdote about a Yankees team that hated one another but won, but the fact that teams like that can be remembered proves that they're the exception and not the norm.

[cp176]

This post is spot-on. When is the last time you heard someone say, "I wish I had more problems in my job." Little distractions are big headaches for a coach, headaches they neither want nor need. Cora's biggest (IMO) job as manager is to manage the clubhouse and managing the clubhouse is easier when the players are happy. Cora seems to be bridging the gap between the FO and the players very well, taking care of brush fires before they become conflagrations. He's maintaining harmony in the clubhouse which makes the players want to play for one another. They've bonded as a unit and they're having fun. And it shows in their play.

 

I'm fairly certain that someone will respond to this with some anecdote about a Yankees team that hated one another but won, but the fact that teams like that can be remembered proves that they're the exception and not the norm.

 

 

ty - I also think that there have been other things done that we have not seen or heard about simply because they tend not to get reported. Upper level management as well as our manager made an effort to bring in some real character people who have helped create a more focused atmosphere. The older veterans on this team for the most part are the types of people most of us would want leading a group. This stuff leads to a whole bunch of people having "fun" .

[moonslav59]

At the risk of being accused of condescending because I tend to look at things through a coaches eye regardless of what sport it is, no coach I know wants to have to deal with silly little outward attention grabbing displays by their athletes. It is just the way it is. Look at me look at me look at me = ******** and overrides team focus. Fans see these displays as fun and individuals being individuals but most coaches don't. I'm pretty sure that this team has as much fun doing everything that everybody has done but they don't do it to entertain us. They probably have quite the time in the locker room. Overall they play hard and pretty solidly from a fundamental standpoint. They are professional athletes who look like they are doing things the right way. I think that they are having lots of fun!

 

I agree.

 

I do see a marked change from last year. That was my main point. You are right. It's not just Cora, but the vets we brought in helped a lot.

 

I also like how Cora went to visit Devers in his home country. That kind of thing is often over-looked.

[moonslav59]

This post is spot-on. When is the last time you heard someone say, "I wish I had more problems in my job." Little distractions are big headaches for a coach, headaches they neither want nor need. Cora's biggest (IMO) job as manager is to manage the clubhouse and managing the clubhouse is easier when the players are happy. Cora seems to be bridging the gap between the FO and the players very well, taking care of brush fires before they become conflagrations. He's maintaining harmony in the clubhouse which makes the players want to play for one another. They've bonded as a unit and they're having fun. And it shows in their play.

 

I totally agree, and I also strongly feel that was missing last year and in 2011.

[S5Dewey]

ty - I also think that there have been other things done that we have not seen or heard about simply because they tend not to get reported. Upper level management as well as our manager made an effort to bring in some real character people who have helped create a more focused atmosphere. The older veterans on this team for the most part are the types of people most of us would want leading a group. This stuff leads to a whole bunch of people having "fun" .

 

I've always believed that there are A LOT of things that go on in the clubhouse that aren't reported. There is an unwritten code amongst players that "what happens in the clubhouse stays in the clubhouse". It's the job of the manager to mediate differences and - especially in this day and age - keep those differences away from the media.

 

One of the things that 'bugged me" about Hanley was how he was always preening for the camera and I always wondered how his attention-gathering was 'playing' with the rest of the team. Since there were 24 other players in the clubhouse and everyone has different perspectives it's my guess that some of them didn't find Hanley's antics to be entertaining, especially when he went into his batting slump.

 

It's been pointed out to me that we never KNOW what happens in the clubhouse so my opinion is as good as anyone else's and my opinion is that Hanley's attention-craving and its impact on other members of the team was one of the issues involved in his being released.

Edited October 22, 2018 by S5Dewey

[Slasher9]

ty - I also think that there have been other things done that we have not seen or heard about simply because they tend not to get reported. Upper level management as well as our manager made an effort to bring in some real character people who have helped create a more focused atmosphere. The older veterans on this team for the most part are the types of people most of us would want leading a group. This stuff leads to a whole bunch of people having "fun" .

 

i think the biggest difference between this year and last year is pedroia not being in the "team leader" role. he sucked at it. his napolean complex was getting old and was costing us fire & desire/team unity. no one wants to follow a dude that so easily throws teammates under a bus.

[cp176]

i think the biggest difference between this year and last year is pedroia not being in the "team leader" role. he sucked at it. his napolean complex was getting old and was costing us fire & desire/team unity. no one wants to follow a dude that so easily throws teammates under a bus.

 

I love and have always loved the way Pedroia played the game. I agree with you though. i think that they were so desperate for leadership from the field that it seemed natural to look at a veteran with Pedroia's resume as the next guy. It is a role he never wanted and you are right never good at. Sadly i can't get by the "it wasn't me" part of his history. i don't hold grudges but I could care less whether he comes back or not.

[moonslav59]

Perhaps the loss of HRam has helped the clubhouse, but who knows?

 

I'm not sure about the loss of Pedey, since he has been in the dugout and clubhouse despite being on the DL.

 

I think the biggest influence was Cora replacing Farrell. The addition of JD was a big plus as well, especially with his on the field contributions. He essentially replaced HRam and Young's PAs.

 

I also think our kids matured a lot, and that may have happened under Farrell as well, but one will never know for sure.

 

I know it is just an opinion, but mine is that Cora was a major difference maker.

[bosoxmal]

Cora has made good decisions all year long. Second huessing is nothing but pure horse s***. Leave hime the f*** alone!

[notin]

I've always believed that there are A LOT of things that go on in the clubhouse that aren't reported. There is an unwritten code amongst players that "what happens in the clubhouse stays in the clubhouse". It's the job of the manager to mediate differences and - especially in this day and age - keep those differences away from the media.

 

One of the things that 'bugged me" about Hanley was how he was always preening for the camera and I always wondered how his attention-gathering was 'playing' with the rest of the team. Since there were 24 other players in the clubhouse and everyone has different perspectives it's my guess that some of them didn't find Hanley's antics to be entertaining, especially when he went into his batting slump.

 

It's been pointed out to me that we never KNOW what happens in the clubhouse so my opinion is as good as anyone else's and my opinion is that Hanley's attention-craving and its impact on other members of the team was one of the issues involved in his being released.

 

It's hard to get 25 people to agree on anything.

 

I'm sure some teammates were annoyed with Hanley, some didn't care and some were amused by him. But this can probably be said about everyone on that team. And probably almost anyone on any team...

[S5Dewey]

It's hard to get 25 people to agree on anything.

 

I'm sure some teammates were annoyed with Hanley, some didn't care and some were amused by him. But this can probably be said about everyone on that team. And probably almost anyone on any team...

 

You're sure? Really? Have you completely ruled out the possibility that everyone was in agreement as to Hanley's behavior? The last I knew you were in the camp of anything being possible and we never know what goes on within a team in the clubhouse.

[notin]

You're sure? Really? Have you completely ruled out the possibility that everyone was in agreement as to Hanley's behavior? The last I knew you were in the camp of anything being possible and we never know what goes on within a team in the clubhouse.

 

Yes. I'm ruling it out based on statistics and volume. In fact, I bet even the most dis-likable players in MLB even have people in the clubhouse who like them. I bet the Orioles and Dodgers had/have people who like Manny Machado for more than his baseball abilities. You can't argue against the stat people by saying the games are played by people, and then also argue all those people also all think alike. Even if Hanley was a complete *******, are you really sure he wasn't the only ******* on the Sox? Or that everyone held that opinion of him?

 

Like I said, it's really hard to get 25 people to agree on anything, especially if what you want them to agree on is not the reason you got them together in the first place...

[S5Dewey]

Yes. I'm ruling it out based on statistics and volume. In fact, I bet even the most dis-likable players in MLB even have people in the clubhouse who like them. I bet the Orioles and Dodgers had/have people who like Manny Machado for more than his baseball abilities. You can't argue against the stat people by saying the games are played by people, and then also argue all those people also all think alike. Even if Hanley was a complete *******, are you really sure he wasn't the only ******* on the Sox? Or that everyone held that opinion of him?

 

Like I said, it's really hard to get 25 people to agree on anything, especially if what you want them to agree on is not the reason you got them together in the first place...

 

When a person says "I bet" what they're saying is that they have no specific information to back up what they're saying and what they're saying is nothing more than their strong opinion.

 

I'll say again what I said before,

 

"It's been pointed out to me that we never KNOW what happens in the clubhouse so my opinion is as good as anyone else's and my opinion is that Hanley's attention-craving and its impact on other members of the team was one of the issues involved in his being released."

[Bellhorn04]

"It's been pointed out to me that we never KNOW what happens in the clubhouse so my opinion is as good as anyone else's and my opinion is that Hanley's attention-craving and its impact on other members of the team was one of the issues involved in his being released."

 

If each of our opinions is as good as anyone else's, does that entitle each of us to make stuff up without a shred of evidence to base it on?

 

A poster from another board, Joe Brady, used to say this: We're not entitled to our own opinions - we're entitled to our own informed opinions. I think he had it right.

[S5Dewey]

If each of our opinions is as good as anyone else's, does that entitle each of us to make stuff up without a shred of evidence to base it on?

 

A poster from another board, Joe Brady, used to say this: We're not entitled to our own opinions - we're entitled to our own informed opinions. I think he had it right.

 

I think it goes without saying that I have no personal experience with the Red Sox clubhouse. I am basing my opinion regarding Hanley on my personal experience regarding how teammates interact. OTOH, I doubt that anyone else here has any more access to the RS clubhouse than I do so their opinion is worth as much as mine.

 

What started this whole ridiculous dust-up is that I said "One of the things that 'bugged me" about Hanley was how he was always preening for the camera and I always wondered how his attention-gathering was 'playing' with the rest of the team. Since there were 24 other players in the clubhouse and everyone has different perspectives it's my guess that some of them didn't find Hanley's antics to be entertaining, especially when he went into his batting slump." I didn't say I was "sure" of anything. That was my take on it and was presented as such

 

If we're going to be limited to what we know and have evidence of this is going to be a pretty boring board.

[vegasbob]

Perhaps the loss of HRam has helped the clubhouse, but who knows?

 

I'm not sure about the loss of Pedey, since he has been in the dugout and clubhouse despite being on the DL.

 

I think the biggest influence was Cora replacing Farrell. The addition of JD was a big plus as well, especially with his on the field contributions. He essentially replaced HRam and Young's PAs.

 

I also think our kids matured a lot, and that may have happened under Farrell as well, but one will never know for sure.

 

I know it is just an opinion, but mine is that Cora was a major difference maker.

 

Pedroia's influence on the other players is an interesting premise. Although he has been physically present I expect his clubhouse presence is much quieter. Another unwritten rule in most sports is that , if you aren't playing , don't be yapping at those who are. It goes with, you can't make the club sitting in the tub.

 

Another factor that differentiates Farrell's tenure from Cora's new insights, motivational techniques and communication with younger guys is that players in 2016/17 may have thought that Farrell was on his way out , either for his health condition or longevity in the role. Also 10 years+ older than Cora. JF may have been tuned out by some of the guys. Also true of some of the coaching staff. Note that Chili Davis got bumped after only one season with the Cubs . What did Theo and Maddon see happening with him? Obviously, not enough hitting. Shades of 2017 in Boston. JDM would make any hitting coach look good though.

[moonslav59]

Pedroia's influence on the other players is an interesting premise. Although he has been physically present I expect his clubhouse presence is much quieter. Another unwritten rule in most sports is that , if you aren't playing , don't be yapping at those who are. It goes with, you can't make the club sitting in the tub.

 

Another factor that differentiates Farrell's tenure from Cora's new insights, motivational techniques and communication with younger guys is that players in 2016/17 may have thought that Farrell was on his way out , either for his health condition or longevity in the role. Also 10 years+ older than Cora. JF may have been tuned out by some of the guys. Also true of some of the coaching staff. Note that Chili Davis got bumped after only one season with the Cubs . What did Theo and Maddon see happening with him? Obviously, not enough hitting. Shades of 2017 in Boston. JDM would make any hitting coach look good though.

 

Well said. I have seen Pedey in the dugout yapping away, however.

[notin]

When a person says "I bet" what they're saying is that they have no specific information to back up what they're saying and what they're saying is nothing more than their strong opinion.

 

I'll say again what I said before,

 

"It's been pointed out to me that we never KNOW what happens in the clubhouse so my opinion is as good as anyone else's and my opinion is that Hanley's attention-craving and its impact on other members of the team was one of the issues involved in his being released."

 

But when it comes to the transipiration of events or the events/things out of a person's control, you're really not dealing with an opinion as much as you are a theory. Because unlike an opinion (or viewpoint), it can bee incorrect. you positied one theory. I posited another, and unlike you, I provided a reason. Whether or not you think Hanley's actions created a universal disturbance in the clubhouse, it either did or did not. When something unknown happens, you don't get to call a theory fact based on whether or not anyone can disprove it, and you don't get to label a theory an opinion just so no one can ever say it's wrong..

 

The most likely scenario is it created a partial disturbance of unknown size, which as my counter-theory to your theory, because it is easier to get a number smaller than 25 to agree on soemthing that it is to get 25 people to acgree on something. There's a good chance neither of us is right. You just seem less willing to acknowledge this...

[notin]

If each of our opinions is as good as anyone else's, does that entitle each of us to make stuff up without a shred of evidence to base it on?

 

A poster from another board, Joe Brady, used to say this: We're not entitled to our own opinions - we're entitled to our own informed opinions. I think he had it right.

 

And doesn't it allow for contrary opinions/theories?

[Kimmi]

I disagree. They were seemingly having too much "fun" last year and not enough seriousness and focus. They forgot how many outs there were, what base to throw to, and so many blunders I can't even remember.

 

I'm glad they got rid of the OF dance.

 

I know winning makes everyone look better, but almost the entire team was on the downswing last year.

 

I see an immense uptick in fire, enthusiasm and energy. Desire is hard to see or evaluate, but it's one of those things you know when you see it.

 

I guess we see things differently on this issue, but I see a night and day comparison, and I think Cora was a big influence on the change. I can see, smell and taste the increased focus.

 

The impression that I get from what the players said after Farrell left is that they weren't having fun. There was too much emphasis on the players' stats each day. I think they were trying too hard most of the time to make something happen, which is what led to many of the so called bone headed plays.

 

I don't believe that last year's team didn't have the desire to win. I'm not buying it.

[Kimmi]

It's hard to get 25 people to agree on anything.

 

I'm sure some teammates were annoyed with Hanley, some didn't care and some were amused by him. But this can probably be said about everyone on that team. And probably almost anyone on any team...

 

The team got rid of the outfield dance, but now they have the hip twist thing. What's the difference?

 

And then there's the "Idiots" from 2004, along with the whole Cowboy Up thing.

 

Every team has their little thing that they do. Seriously, it means nothing in terms of whether a team is being too silly or not playing with urgency or whatever.

[Kimmi]

If each of our opinions is as good as anyone else's, does that entitle each of us to make stuff up without a shred of evidence to base it on?

 

A poster from another board, Joe Brady, used to say this: We're not entitled to our own opinions - we're entitled to our own informed opinions. I think he had it right.

 

My man.

[Kimmi]

Well said. I have seen Pedey in the dugout yapping away, however.

 

Pedroia has been well received in the dugout as a veteran player offering advice and coaching tips to the other players.

 

People really need to get over the Pedroia is a lousy leader/role model thing.

[S5Dewey]

But when it comes to the transipiration of events or the events/things out of a person's control, you're really not dealing with an opinion as much as you are a theory. Because unlike an opinion (or viewpoint), it can bee incorrect. you positied one theory. I posited another, and unlike you, I provided a reason. Whether or not you think Hanley's actions created a universal disturbance in the clubhouse, it either did or did not. When something unknown happens, you don't get to call a theory fact based on whether or not anyone can disprove it, and you don't get to label a theory an opinion just so no one can ever say it's wrong..

 

The most likely scenario is it created a partial disturbance of unknown size, which as my counter-theory to your theory, because it is easier to get a number smaller than 25 to agree on soemthing that it is to get 25 people to acgree on something. There's a good chance neither of us is right. You just seem less willing to acknowledge this...

First, thank you for telling me what I'm allowed to do. But strangely, you seem to feel you're not participating in this pissing contest, right? So it must be all me. Hahahaha

[moonslav59]

Pedroia has been well received in the dugout as a veteran player offering advice and coaching tips to the other players.

 

People really need to get over the Pedroia is a lousy leader/role model thing.

 

I've never said he was a bad or good role model.

 

I hope he comes back strong next year.

 

I was just responding to a post that said Pedey was somewhat muted by being on the DL.