The Alex Cora Managerial Decision Thread

[Jasonbay44]

I know everyone will disagree, but would anyone give Kelly another chance to be a starting pitcher???(Considering that Pomeranz has been average this year)

 

No. Kelly sucked as a starter, and is very good as a reliever. Even if Pomeranz sucks/is average, we have enough starting pitching depth that there is literally no reason whatsoever to mess with Kelly.

[jacksonianmarch]

No. Kelly sucked as a starter, and is very good as a reliever. Even if Pomeranz sucks/is average, we have enough starting pitching depth that there is literally no reason whatsoever to mess with Kelly.

 

Are you willing to hitch your horses to Neck Tat's wagon? I highly doubt he stays effective as a starter long term in the majors. Johnson is garbage. Beeks is not a great prospect as he has literally no room for error. I doubt you have depth beyond your current 5 and maybe Wright, assuming he can actually pitch

[Jasonbay44]

Are you willing to hitch your horses to Neck Tat's wagon? I highly doubt he stays effective as a starter long term in the majors. Johnson is garbage. Beeks is not a great prospect as he has literally no room for error. I doubt you have depth beyond your current 5 and maybe Wright, assuming he can actually pitch

Sale/Porcello/Price/Pomeranz/E-Rod with Velazquez as 6th starter is perfectly fine, and Wright will be back soon. There is no reason to mess with Joe Kelly, who has been lights out in 8th inning, especially when we don't NEED to.

[Natick to NC]

Sale/Porcello/Price/Pomeranz/E-Rod with Velazquez as 6th starter is perfectly fine, and Wright will be back soon. There is no reason to mess with Joe Kelly, who has been lights out in 8th inning, especially when we don't NEED to.

 

Neck tat may be our third best pitcher behind only Sale and Ricky P

[Kimmi]

Kelly seems to have found his niche. Don't mess with it.

[jacksonianmarch]

Exactly. I heard the same garbage when Betances found his stuff and dominated out of the pen. There is a reason Kelly is out there. It’s not because he never got the chance to start. It’s because he sucked at it and works better with a limited arsenal in a limited amount of innings

[Natick to NC]

Kelly is a head case ...dude has a disgusting CB and FB ...if the guy ever was consistent at painting pitches he would be all world ...

[notin]

I know everyone will disagree, but would anyone give Kelly another chance to be a starting pitcher???(Considering that Pomeranz has been average this year)

 

So the Sox need another starter because one of their starters has been average??

[mvp 78]

I know everyone will disagree, but would anyone give Kelly another chance to be a starting pitcher???(Considering that Pomeranz has been average this year)

 

Yup, bad idea. His "stuff" plays better out of the pen.

[notin]

Kelly seems to have found his niche. Don't mess with it.

 

Since opening day for Kelly

 

14IP

.128 BAA

.312 OPSA

0.00 ERA

0.50 WHIP

14.0 K/BB

 

in 14.2 IP this season, Kimbrel has

 

.143 BAA

.493 OPSA

1.23 ERA

0.75 WHIP

5.25 K/BB

 

There is no reason to mess with Kelly...

[Emp9]

No. Kelly sucked as a starter, and is very good as a reliever. Even if Pomeranz sucks/is average, we have enough starting pitching depth that there is literally no reason whatsoever to mess with Kelly.

 

Yes. I remember posting a ton on how Kelly COULD be a decent reliever (while he was still a SP). He’s fine where he is. I was also guilty of bragging about how such a smart decision it was without a huge sample size (only a seasons worth), but he still proving me right about it over the long haul so far. Yes, I need to be right about stuff on occasion. It feels good.

[oldtimer]

Cora went with Bradley all the way while Moreland sat in a one run game and up against rightly pitching in a very tight game. Bradley struck out 3 time in a pathetic manner and got hit by a pitch. He is a nice guy but I at least thought we had a better option with Moreland and the outfield switcheroo. Cora is sticking with Bradley, but for how long and at what cost?

[jacksonianmarch]

I understand going Bradley in this game. You’re not gonna score many runs vs Sevy so trying to limit runs defensively is important. Surprised Cora left him in to face Chapman even though it worked out for the sox.

[OH FOY]

Should have used Swihart. Edited May 9, 2018 by OH FOY!

[Maxbialystock]

I like Moreland at 1b, Hanley at DH, JD in LF, Beni in CF, and Bradley on the bench, but last night we had three lefty bats in the lineup and they struck out 7 times with 1 single, so I'm not so sure Moreland was going to turn the tide. We got 2 runs off Severino, which is about par for the course and lost the game because of the bullpen. This game was way closer than it should have been with Pom going up against Severino, a complete mismatch. Between them, Vazquez and JBJ left 6 guys on. The other 7 hitters left 8 guys on. The bottom of the Sox order continues to be a problem even though Nunez had 2 hits.

[cp176]

I like Moreland at 1b, Hanley at DH, JD in LF, Beni in CF, and Bradley on the bench, but last night we had three lefty bats in the lineup and they struck out 7 times with 1 single, so I'm not so sure Moreland was going to turn the tide. We got 2 runs off Severino, which is about par for the course and lost the game because of the bullpen. This game was way closer than it should have been with Pom going up against Severino, a complete mismatch. Between them, Vazquez and JBJ left 6 guys on. The other 7 hitters left 8 guys on. The bottom of the Sox order continues to be a problem even though Nunez had 2 hits.

 

Those lefty bats were JBJ, Benintendi, and Devers. JBJ had 3 of the K's and the other two aren't exactly ripping the hide off the ball. Moreland very well could have made a difference. Maybe or maybe not but I think that it would have been worth the try.

[Slasher9]

Cora went with Bradley all the way while Moreland sat in a one run game and up against rightly pitching in a very tight game. Bradley struck out 3 time in a pathetic manner and got hit by a pitch. He is a nice guy but I at least thought we had a better option with Moreland and the outfield switcheroo. Cora is sticking with Bradley, but for how long and at what cost?

 

JBj has good numbers vs Chapman. that's why no PH for him in the 9th.

[illinoisredsox]

JBj has good numbers vs Chapman. that's why no PH for him in the 9th.

 

Going into the 9th inning last night, career vs. Chapman

 

JBJ - .667/.800/.667/1.467 with 1K in 5 PAs

Moreland - .000/.000/.000/.000 with 2 Ks in 5 PAs

 

and for giggles

 

Vazquez - 1.000/1.000/2.000/3.000 in 1 PA

 

Yes, extremely small samples, but that's what you get against most individual pitchers, and especially relievers. As many years as they faced each other, Ortiz only had 31 Plate Appearances against Mariano Rivera.

[S5Dewey]

Going into the 9th inning last night, career vs. Chapman

 

JBJ - .667/.800/.667/1.467 with 1K in 5 PAs

Moreland - .000/.000/.000/.000 with 2 Ks in 5 PAs

 

and for giggles

 

Vazquez - 1.000/1.000/2.000/3.000 in 1 PA

 

Yes, extremely small samples, but that's what you get against most individual pitchers, and especially relievers. As many years as they faced each other, Ortiz only had 31 Plate Appearances against Mariano Rivera.

 

Wow. It seems like more. A LOT more.

[Bellhorn04]

Going into the 9th inning last night, career vs. Chapman

 

JBJ - .667/.800/.667/1.467 with 1K in 5 PAs

Moreland - .000/.000/.000/.000 with 2 Ks in 5 PAs

 

and for giggles

 

Vazquez - 1.000/1.000/2.000/3.000 in 1 PA

 

Yes, extremely small samples, but that's what you get against most individual pitchers, and especially relievers. As many years as they faced each other, Ortiz only had 31 Plate Appearances against Mariano Rivera.

 

Good stuff Illinois.

[Slasher9]

09-May-2018

Terrible managerial decision making

[Maxbialystock]

09-May-2018

Terrible managerial decision making

 

Terrible bullpen two nights in a row. Manager was fine.

[Slasher9]

Terrible bullpen two nights in a row. Manager was fine.

there are a bunch or reasons that Cora was NOT "fine".

i will list a couple.

going to your closer in the 8th inning when he has never in his life gotten a 5 out save is amateurish at best and more likely incompetent. and it's a game in early May. no reason to act so desperate in May. Kimbrell is now wrecked for any 8th inning situations come playoff time.

going to Matt Barnes in a 1 run game vs Yankees (especially at yankee stadium) is a terrible, horrible move.

in case you care about stats: matt barnes vs NYY: 18ip / 18hits / 16 ER / 3hr / 10bb / 1.556 whip / 8.00 era. to use matt barnes in a high leverage situation at Yankee stadium is NEGLIGENT.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

there are a bunch or reasons that Cora was NOT "fine".

i will list a couple.

going to your closer in the 8th inning when he has never in his life gotten a 5 out save is amateurish at best and more likely incompetent. and it's a game in early May. no reason to act so desperate in May. Kimbrell is now wrecked for any 8th inning situations come playoff time.

going to Matt Barnes in a 1 run game vs Yankees (especially at yankee stadium) is a terrible, horrible move.

in case you care about stats: matt barnes vs NYY: 18ip / 18hits / 16 ER / 3hr / 10bb / 1.556 whip / 8.00 era. to use matt barnes in a high leverage situation at Yankee stadium is NEGLIGENT.

 

The minute he brought in Barnes I figured the game was over. The Yankees murder Barnes -- they have the book on him. They know he struggles with his command and so they wait him out and take walks or sit on pitches when Barnes falls behind. The Yankees did a little of both to Barnes last night.

 

You can't bring in Barnes there. You keep Smith in for two more outs and then Kimbrel for a 4 out save.

[illinoisredsox]

The minute he brought in Barnes I figured the game was over. The Yankees murder Barnes -- they have the book on him. They know he struggles with his command and so they wait him out and take walks or sit on pitches when Barnes falls behind. The Yankees did a little of both to Barnes last night.

 

You can't bring in Barnes there. You keep Smith in for two more outs and then Kimbrel for a 4 out save.

 

That was my thought (except if Smith gets the first 2 in the 8th, I would have left him in to finish the inning).

 

But,

 

Sometime last season, one of the national color commentators (a pitcher, so either Kaat or Hersheiser) opined that the reason many relievers (especially closers) don't fare well in multi-inning situations is that they are not used to throwing an inning (or part of one), sitting down for 10 or 15 minutes and then going back out there. A starter does that all the time, relievers don't. The reasoning makes sense. Kelly has been fairly successful at it, but he isn't that far removed from his starting days. Johnson did a good job last night. Ditto. The guys who suck at it have been relievers for years.

 

Starters will throw simulated games in the pen. Maybe relievers should throw simulated multi-inning stints in the pen (2-3 innings), especially in spring training.

[Maxbialystock]

I was fine with Barnes going in, also with when Kimbrel replaced him. And I generally think Cora is doing an excellent job with the bullpen.

 

That said, I don't think there is enough discussion of the simple fact that the bench hamstrung Kimbrel last night against the first batter, Gardner. By that I mean the bench called all the pitches and called for 7 straight fastballs and Gardner hit the 7th to deep centerfield for a triple.

 

Kimbrel is far less effective when he doesn't use the knuckle curve at all. He only threw 1 knuckle curve--a strike--against Judge, who poleaxed another fastball. Then Kimbrel mixed in knuckle curves and fastballs and got two quick K's vs. Gregorius and Stanton.

 

Oldtimer has a good explanation for the no knuckle curves: the bench was afraid one would be a wild pitch and bring the runner on third home to tie the game. I appreciate that, but the larger reality was and is that Kimbrel needs that knuckle curve to be effective. It's the combination of those two pitches--blazing fastball and knuckle curve--that makes him successful.

 

My hope is that they learned a lesson last night. When Kimbrel goes in, you need to let Kimbrel be Kimbrel, even with a man on 3b.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Maxbialystock

[OH FOY]

Rivera was actually tougher on Lefties. He would break bats against Lefties with that Cutter.

.215 against RHB

.209 against LHB.

Maybe good idea, to bat JBJ against Chapman, good at bat there, might give him some confidence.

Hard not to see he was batting .088 against Lefties this year.

Chapman is really tough on good LHB's, so you don't lose really much anyway.

Edited May 10, 2018 by OH FOY!

[Station 13]

I was fine with Barnes going in, also with when Kimbrel replaced him. And I generally think Cora is doing an excellent job with the bullpen.

 

That said, I don't think there is enough discussion of the simple fact that the bench hamstrung Kimbrel last night against the first batter, Gardner. By that I mean the bench called all the pitches and called for 7 straight fastballs and Gardner hit the 7th to deep centerfield for a triple.

 

Kimbrel is far less effective when he doesn't use the knuckle curve at all. He only threw 1 knuckle curve--a strike--against Judge, who poleaxed another fastball. Then Kimbrel mixed in knuckle curves and fastballs and got two quick K's vs. Gregorius and Stanton.

 

Oldtimer has a good explanation for the no knuckle curves: the bench was afraid one would be a wild pitch and bring the runner on third home to tie the game. I appreciate that, but the larger reality was and is that Kimbrel needs that knuckle curve to be effective. It's the combination of those two pitches--blazing fastball and knuckle curve--that makes him successful.

 

My hope is that they learned a lesson last night. When Kimbrel goes in, you need to let Kimbrel be Kimbrel, even with a man on 3b.

Kimbrel started Gardner by throwing 3 fastball that were not strikes. He was in a hole and he won't throw a curve ball, his second best offering to load the bases. The mess was not getting Barnes out after Adujer.

[Slasher9]

I was fine with Barnes going in, also with when Kimbrel replaced him. And I generally think Cora is doing an excellent job with the bullpen.

 

That said, I don't think there is enough discussion of the simple fact that the bench hamstrung Kimbrel last night against the first batter, Gardner. By that I mean the bench called all the pitches and called for 7 straight fastballs and Gardner hit the 7th to deep centerfield for a triple.

 

.

Barnes numbers vs evil empire dictate otherwise. especially in high leverage situation.

 

bench = cora. so pitch selection is on him. another foulup by our field general.

[notin]

Kimbrel started Gardner by throwing 3 fastball that were not strikes. He was in a hole and he won't throw a curve ball, his second best offering to load the bases. The mess was not getting Barnes out after Adujer.

 

If you need to bring in Kimbrel to face the 9th place hitter, it does speak volumes about Barnes...