A Realistic View at 2018: Part II

[moonslav59]

Come on barnes!

[Hitch]

Huge!!!

[moonslav59]

Huge!!!

 

Huger than Huge!

[Hitch]

Let's go baby!!

[moonslav59]

2 run job here, would be nice

[moonslav59]

We've scored in 6 of 8 innings, tonight.

[Hitch]

We've scored in 6 of 8 innings, tonight.

 

And 7 of the 8 runs coming with two outs. Crazy.

[Hitch]

Massive mistake by Kemp. Massive throw by Mookie.

[moonslav59]

Massive mistake by Kemp. Massive throw by Mookie.

 

Massive mistake taking out Barnes.

[Hitch]

Massive mistake taking out Barnes.

 

Yeah I guess he wanted Kimbrel for the heart of their order, but it certainly raised my eyebrow.

 

I assume he's coming back out for the 9th. Under the Kimbrel law of giving up a run every inning, we should win this 8 7 right? Right??

[moonslav59]

Yeah I guess he wanted Kimbrel for the heart of their order, but it certainly raised my eyebrow.

 

I assume he's coming back out for the 9th. Under the Kimbrel law of giving up a run every inning, we should win this 8 7 right? Right??

 

If that's what he wanted, then bring in Kimbrel for 1 out in the 7th and 3 in the 8th, and you have Barnes for the 9th and, in theory, the bottom of the order.

[Hitch]

If that's what he wanted, then bring in Kimbrel for 1 out in the 7th and 3 in the 8th, and you have Barnes for the 9th and, in theory, the bottom of the order.

 

Heart attack stuff right now bringing Kimbrel in for an out with guys on the 2nd and 3rd though.

[moonslav59]

Heart attack stuff right now bringing Kimbrel in for an out with guys on the 2nd and 3rd though.

 

True, especially for his first batter.

 

When it's hos own guys and 2nd and 3rd, he seems to do better.

[Hitch]

Talk about heart attack stuff...

[Hitch]

Dear God...

[Hitch]

Sweet Jesus that all but killed me!!

 

Huge win! Beni you beauty!!

[moonslav59]

Sweet Jesus that all but killed me!!

 

Huge win! Beni you beauty!!

 

Two doubles and 2 runs scored for Beni as well.

[sk7326]

some game - great outfield play, some clutch hitting ... obviously the fan interference was a ... well, if it happened the other way we'd be really pissed and not without reason. I'm not saying the call was wrong - but it was not obvious and it's not a call you usually ever see called. Hinch's comments are measured and sensible. (watching the presser)

 

I am surprised Cora did not ask Barnes to get 4 outs. Will see if they can win a bullpen game tomorrow. If Price can get through the order once it'd be a victory

Edited October 18, 2018 by sk7326

[Hitch]

some game - great outfield play, some clutch hitting ... obviously the fan interference was a ... well, if it happened the other way we'd be really pissed and not without reason. I'm not saying the call was wrong - but it was not obvious and it's not a call you usually ever see called. Hinch's comments are measured and sensible. (watching the presser)

 

I am surprised Cora did not ask Barnes to get 4 outs. Will see if they can win a bullpen game tomorrow. If Price can get through the order once it'd be a victory

 

I thought it was out at first, but the more I see it the more I'm convinced it should have been a homer. Serves them right for cheating.

 

I think Cora gambled everything on the win tonight. Anything tomorrow will be a bonus. Especially against Verlander.

[moonslav59]

I thought it was out at first, but the more I see it the more I'm convinced it should have been a homer. Serves them right for cheating.

 

I think Cora gambled everything on the win tonight. Anything tomorrow will be a bonus. Especially against Verlander.

 

The first 3 times I saw the replay, I thought it was a homer. It looked like Betts just closed his glove too early. I shoulda known he wouldn't do that on his own.

 

Then, I saw the fans had knock into his glove causing it to close. One angle shows it clearly. The other angle shows the fans hand was just barely over the imaginary line into the field of play.

 

Plus, watch how Betts jumps. He did not jump into the stands. When he came down, he didn't even hit the wall, except for just slightly near the bottom with his leg (maybe). His glove trajectory was not going into the stands.

 

The fans were right up next to the fence, and even though they had T-Rex arms, to some extent, they still went over the plane by a couple inches or so.

[sk7326]

The first 3 times I saw the replay, I thought it was a homer. It looked like Betts just closed his glove too early. I shoulda known he wouldn't do that on his own.

 

Then, I saw the fans had knock into his glove causing it to close. One angle shows it clearly. The other angle shows the fans hand was just barely over the imaginary line into the field of play.

 

Plus, watch how Betts jumps. He did not jump into the stands. When he came down, he didn't even hit the wall, except for just slightly near the bottom with his leg (maybe). His glove trajectory was not going into the stands.

 

The fans were right up next to the fence, and even though they had T-Rex arms, to some extent, they still went over the plane by a couple inches or so.

 

I don't think the call was wrong ... but it was a break that went out way. Usually I expect umps to call that a homerun ... interference is usually more blatant. We got lucky - to win it all, sometimes you gotta.

[moonslav59]

Bradley- Betts- Beni!

 

Great D!

 

Big hits!

 

Killer beeing the Killer Bee makers.

[sk7326]

Bradley- Betts- Beni!

 

Great D!

 

Big hits!

 

Killer beeing the Killer Bee makers.

 

Bogaerts has 2 hits too. And throw in Brasier and Barnes for good measure.

[oldtimer]

It didn't matter who the Astro's pitched, the Sox got to them. Keep hitting like that and we keep winning. Great win and we had to overcome some weakness in Porcello and Kimbrel. Great outfield play, timely hitting, a little good fortune and it's now 3 to 1 in the series.

 

Our BP is used up for tonight's game. We may see Hembree, Workman and E-Rod tonight if Price gets behind. We need Price to suck it up for 5 innings, and Hembree to give us a couple and hope to get something out of the others. Save our best for the return to Boston and with a day off, they should be ready.

[cp176]

The first 3 times I saw the replay, I thought it was a homer. It looked like Betts just closed his glove too early. I shoulda known he wouldn't do that on his own.

 

Then, I saw the fans had knock into his glove causing it to close. One angle shows it clearly. The other angle shows the fans hand was just barely over the imaginary line into the field of play.

 

Plus, watch how Betts jumps. He did not jump into the stands. When he came down, he didn't even hit the wall, except for just slightly near the bottom with his leg (maybe). His glove trajectory was not going into the stands.

 

The fans were right up next to the fence, and even though they had T-Rex arms, to some extent, they still went over the plane by a couple inches or so.

 

it was clearly interfered with - looks to me like the only question was did Mookie break the plane? I saw no angle that could verify that he did. I think that West had to make that call. what else could he have done just ignore it? The reason that call doesn't get made very often is because it doesn't happen very often. Tough to be the fan!

[moonslav59]

Bogaerts has 2 hits too. And throw in Brasier and Barnes for good measure.

 

5 B's!

 

Maybe JD needs to change his name to Bartinez and Rafael to Bevers...

[S5Dewey]

it was clearly interfered with - looks to me like the only question was did Mookie break the plane? I saw no angle that could verify that he did. I think that West had to make that call. what else could he have done just ignore it? The reason that call doesn't get made very often is because it doesn't happen very often. Tough to be the fan!

 

This is a good, reasoned post.

 

Sight and video are two-dimensional. we can clearly see how high Mookie went and where he was side-to-side but we can't see depth (front-to-back) so we don't have knowledge of whether his hand/glove went over the wall. West had to make a call on the spot and he called it interference based on what he could see. Then New York, who had the same views, upheld the original call. Based on what I could see from the multiple angles I don't know if there was interference or not and I wouldn't be upset had the call gone the other way.

 

The thing that has to be addressed now is the placement of cameras. There was a camera looking lengthwise on the wall but a security person stepped in the way obscuring what would have been the best perspective on the play. If they're going to use replay to settle calls - and they are - MLB needs to have cameras placed where people can't obstruct the view. Maybe 10' above the wall?

[moonslav59]

This is a good, reasoned post.

 

Sight and video are two-dimensional. we can clearly see how high Mookie went and where he was side-to-side but we can't see depth (front-to-back) so we don't have knowledge of whether his hand/glove went over the wall. West had to make a call on the spot and he called it interference based on what he could see. Then New York, who had the same views, upheld the original call. Based on what I could see from the multiple angles I don't know if there was interference or not and I wouldn't be upset had the call gone the other way.

 

The thing that has to be addressed now is the placement of cameras. There was a camera looking lengthwise on the wall but a security person stepped in the way obscuring what would have been the best perspective on the play. If they're going to use replay to settle calls - and they are - MLB needs to have cameras placed where people can't obstruct the view. Maybe 10' above the wall?

 

You can assume depth by using the following evidence:

 

1) The fans were standing against the fence.

2) The fans were leaning slightly forward.

3) The fans arms were out stretched to some extent.

 

From this, you can determine with pretty close to 100% accuracy, that their hands were over the plane when they touched Mookie's glove.

 

The secondary evidence shows that Mookie jumped and landed in front of the wall and barely scraped it on the way down.

[Slasher9]

if they can use Statcast to judge spin rate / exit velo / distance ball travels / launch angle / distance defender travels / speed defender travels surely SURELY they can work the math to figure out the exact location that glove touches fan. there should be zero doubt whether Mookie was over the wall / above the wall / or in the field of play.

Joe West made the call he had to make. it was up to NY to prove otherwise. and they either wouldn't, couldn't, or didn't want to.......

[S5Dewey]

You can assume depth by using the following evidence:

 

1) The fans were standing against the fence.

2) The fans were leaning slightly forward.

3) The fans arms were out stretched to some extent.

 

From this, you can determine with pretty close to 100% accuracy, that their hands were over the plane when they touched Mookie's glove.

 

The secondary evidence shows that Mookie jumped and landed in front of the wall and barely scraped it on the way down.

 

There are a lot of assumptions in your post and assumptions are what replays are supposed to remove.

 

Remember, we're talking about inches here - whether or not Mookie's glove or the fan's hand broke the imaginary plane extending upward from the field-side of the wall. Your biggest assumption is that the fans were as close to the wall as they could get. In any park I've been in there's maybe 6" between where my feet are and the wall.

The fan is standing so when he stood up did he have his toes against the wall or are they a distance back from the wall? Are his knees touching the wall? We don't know and I'd bet the fan doesn't either. I know that sounds picky but that may be the difference between whether the fan was able to reach onto the field or not. From the best angle I've seen Mookie's glove was over the line but that angle is maybe 45 degrees so it will distort the view. So I can't say that I KNOW.

 

This whole thing reminds me of the bang-bang plays at 1B where even the video can't completely determine safe or out and there's no provision in the rules for a tie. Maybe Mookie was over the imaginary line. Maybe the fan was. We don't know so we defer to West's original call. Like I said, I wouldn't argue it either way.