Sox re-sign Mitch Moreland

[SCM33]

something doesn't smell right there...as there are many more than 18 MLB teams....Are the others so limited to not have people qualify with enough at bats. If so that would make them worse than the 18...

 

 

Yes, and potentially yes.

 

But to be fair, it could be a number of reasons. Underperforming player gets benched, injuries, platoons.....either way, there were only 18 qualified CF's last year.

 

Michigan adam, to be qualified, you need to reach a certain number of plate appearances, not at bats.

[jacksonianmarch]

He’s talking about qualifying players which removes part timers and inured players

[Fan_since_Boggs]

there is absolutely no way the sox will be big players in the 2019 FA frenzy aside from trying to sign their own players.

 

Trade Bogaerts and his 10 million dollar salary and replace him with free agent Machado who will be making around 25 million per year and the Red Sox will have added 15 million to the 2019 payroll. That's doable for 2019. The Red Sox have a lot of money coming off the books after that (to afford Machado long term).

 

2019 lineup could look like this:

1b: Moreland

2b: Pedroia

SS: Machado

3b: Devers

C: Vazquez

LF: Benintendi

CF: Bradley

RF: Betts

DH: JD Martinez

[jacksonianmarch]

Machado is looking at a lot more than a $25 mil AAV

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Glad I finally got to see that by the Sox releasing Hanley, they are not obligated for his 19 salary. Sox have to think about this.

 

Agreed. And if he acts up in any way, due to the fact that the Red Sox seem to be planning to keep the option from vesting, you simply release him. Thus, Hanley has an incentive to be on his best behavior; otherwise he gets released and since his career is almost over anyway, he isn't going to get many more opportunities.

 

I predicted last season that the Red Sox might release Hanley in the offseason if they could do it without being responsible for the 2019 option. If Brentz shows he can play 1b in spring training, or if the Red Sox can sign a righty bat to platoon with Moreland, the chances of releasing Hanley go up. In addition, they don't even need Hanley for depth purposes--they have Chavis waiting in the wings for that. But this is all contingent on the Red Sox signing JD Martinez, and I'm assuming they will sign him.

 

In a sense, a year of JD Martinez kind of pays for itself. You could start Hanley and let the option vest for 2019 or you could sign JD Martinez and stop Hanley's option from vesting, giving that 2019 option money to JD Martinez instead.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[mvp 78]

TFW you change the qualifications and Aaron Hicks and Kevin Keirmaier's partial seasons have higher WAR than JBJ... https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=200&type=8&season=2017&month=0&season1=2017&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

 

Top 10 defender, sure.

 

Top 30 offensive player, maybe.

 

JBJ is overrated for sure. However, I think he still has value as a starting CF somewhere. Sox should probably just keep him and re-sign him when he becomes a FA. His next contract won't break the bank.

[mvp 78]

Fowler, Taylor and Conforto's non-qualified seasons too.

[Slasher9]

Too good? Hanley as in Hanley Ramirez?

 

 

 

Oh, you mean like when he missed games on May 11th, 12th and 13th after being asked to play 1B for the first time last year?

Oh, you mean like when he missed games on June 15th, 16th and 17th after being asked to play 1B for the second time last year?

Oh, you mean like when he missed games on August 5th, 6th, and the 8th after being asked to play 1B?

Oh, you mean like when he missed games on August 14th after being asked to play 1B?

 

Yeah, your right. It never happened.

 

he missed alot of games after DHing too. because...you know...he had injuries. it's a false narrative that he didnt want to play 1b.

he played 17 games at 1b last season. he had back spasms and had to be pulled from the first game he played in the field. apparently someone like pedroia whom im sure you love because he a dirt dog would have gritted through it, right?

17 games at 1b

108 games at DH

if only he would cut off those damn dreadlocks. then he would want to play 1b!!!!!

[mvp 78]

he missed alot of games after DHing too. because...you know...he had injuries. it's a false narrative that he didnt want to play 1b.

he played 17 games at 1b last season. he had back spasms and had to be pulled from the first game he played in the field. apparently someone like pedroia whom im sure you love because he a dirt dog would have gritted through it, right?

17 games at 1b

108 games at DH

if only he would cut off those damn dreadlocks. then he would want to play 1b!!!!!

 

I think SCM is on the trade Pedroia bandwagon.

[Jack Flap]

A center fielder who turns 28 next season with three years of control remaining, who and is coming off 2.8 bWAR and 2.3 fWAR (5.3 bWAR/5.0 fWAR the year before) has no trade value. Yeah, okay.

[Jack Flap]

I think this is the plan. Moreland was signed to be a guard against Hanley. At least I hope so. I don't want to trade Jackie.

 

I agree with you here...I think putting someone like Martinez in left and trading Bradley is less of an upgrade to the team as a whole than simply making Martinez the DH and keeping Bradley. I love our outfield as currently constituted and would hate to see it broken up...of course, it all depends on what we could get for JBJ, I suppose, but it would have to be a really great return to make it worth it.

[moonslav59]

something doesn't smell right there...as there are many more than 18 MLB teams....Are the others so limited to not have people qualify with enough at bats. If so that would make them worse than the 18...

 

Exactly, that's why I lower the PA threshold until it reaches 30.

 

If you take out Betts and Cespedes, the "qualifying player list from 2015-2017 is 32.

 

JBJ placed....

 

11th in WAR out of 32.

 

11th in OPS

 

8th out of 30 in DRS

11th in UZR

 

That looks pretty much like he is close to top 3rd tier.

 

Even if you call him average, that has a lot of value.

Edited December 19, 2017 by moonslav59

[Michigan adam]

It is absolutely fair to say that JBJ was in fact the 12-15 best CF in that scenario then as the other teams certainly had worse CF's last year if they did not qualify. I have always like his defense and power but hated how streaky he is....

[moonslav59]

It is absolutely fair to say that JBJ was in fact the 12-15 best CF in that scenario then as the other teams certainly had worse CF's last year if they did not qualify. I have always like his defense and power but hated how streaky he is....

 

When using OPS and UZR/150, the number of games is not a factor. The threshold is still high enough to weed out players who hardly played at all.

 

11th in OPS and 11th in UZR/150 makes him pretty close to top third in my book. If you want to knock him down some for his most recent "off year", fine. He's still top 15 to me, no matter how you slice and dice.

 

That has significant vale.

[mvp 78]

It is absolutely fair to say that JBJ was in fact the 12-15 best CF in that scenario then as the other teams certainly had worse CF's last year if they did not qualify. I have always like his defense and power but hated how streaky he is....

 

I was told over and over again that he was not streaky by moon. Not sure you'll get far in that conversation.

[mvp 78]

When using OPS and UZR/150, the number of games is not a factor. The threshold is still high enough to weed out players who hardly played at all.

 

11th in OPS and 11th in UZR/150 makes him pretty close to top third in my book. If you want to knock him down some for his most recent "off year", fine. He's still top 15 to me, no matter how you slice and dice.

 

That has significant vale.

 

It's a very arbitrary thing to exclude "guys who don't really play" if it discounts them being injured for a year or in a rookie season in 16 or 17.

 

The fact of the matter is that when you reduce it to 30 CF's for 2017, he ranks 24th in OPS.

[dgalehouse]

JBJ seems to be a guy that people feel strongly about , one way or the other. Objectively , he is a pretty good overall player who definitely has some trade value. However , if you think you are going to get a top notch starting pitcher for him , you are going to be disappointed. You would have to part with Benintendi to get that kind of return . Obviously , we are not going to do that. The best thing might be to keep JBJ , sign Martinez to DH and play some outfield , and platoon Moreland and Hanley at first . Reserves could be Brentz , Swihart and one of Holt , Lin or Marrero. Then , look at the free agent starting pitchers. Get a good one and the team will be set to start the season. ( And , PLEASE stop worrying about the money. )

[Bellhorn04]

JBJ seems to be a guy that people feel strongly about , one way or the other. Objectively , he is a pretty good overall player who definitely has some trade value. However , if you think you are going to get a top notch starting pitcher for him , you are going to be disappointed. You would have to part with Benintendi to get that kind of return . Obviously , we are not going to do that. The best thing might be to keep JBJ , sign Martinez to DH and play some outfield , and platoon Moreland and Hanley at first . Reserves could be Brentz , Swihart and one of Holt , Lin or Marrero. Then , look at the free agent starting pitchers. Get a good one and the team will be set to start the season. ( And , PLEASE stop worrying about the money. )

 

I wouldn't worry about the money so much if it wasn't for the dreadful knowledge that when they're paying Pablo Sandoval 19 million to do nothing that's 19 million they won't spend on Edwin Encarnacion - and that type of thing...

[cp176]

JBJ seems to be a guy that people feel strongly about , one way or the other. Objectively , he is a pretty good overall player who definitely has some trade value. However , if you think you are going to get a top notch starting pitcher for him , you are going to be disappointed. You would have to part with Benintendi to get that kind of return . Obviously , we are not going to do that. The best thing might be to keep JBJ , sign Martinez to DH and play some outfield , and platoon Moreland and Hanley at first . Reserves could be Brentz , Swihart and one of Holt , Lin or Marrero. Then , look at the free agent starting pitchers. Get a good one and the team will be set to start the season. ( And , PLEASE stop worrying about the money. )

 

They can't , they just can't stop worrying about the $. It is who they are. I'm with you though. I know little and could care less about the luxury tax.

[Bellhorn04]

If money is no object, where are our Christmas presents???!!!

[Bellhorn04]

If money is no object, why did we sign Moreland instead of Santana or Hosmer?

 

I think you guys are just yanking my chain about this limitless budget thing...

[Jack Flap]

I wouldn't worry about the money so much if it wasn't for the dreadful knowledge that when they're paying Pablo Sandoval 19 million to do nothing that's 19 million they won't spend on Edwin Encarnacion - and that type of thing...

 

Bingo. We all "care about the money" at some point, whether we admit it or not (don't tell me Pablo would have been so reviled if he was making $650k a year), and sometimes I've observed that the fans who are quickest to say "not my money" are the loudest to complain when the money gets spent in a way they don't like.

 

Personally, I care about contracts and so forth only to the extent that (as you mention) spending on one player affects what we can spend on another. Posting fees, signing bonuses, contracts that don't count towards luxury tax (hello Rusney), and so forth might as well be gravy.

 

 

 

Also, with regard to JBJ, isn't it fair to say that he was a pretty middle-of-the-pack starting center fielder in 2017 by most standards? I'm not sure what the hair-splitting about qualifying players is really adding to that discussion. He doesn't have to be a superstar or tops at his position to have real value.

[Jack Flap]

If money is no object, why did we sign Moreland instead of Santana or Hosmer?

 

I think you guys are just yanking my chain about this limitless budget thing...

 

Lol...I tried to have that discussion not too long ago and didn't get very far.

[cp176]

If money is no object, why did we sign Moreland instead of Santana or Hosmer?

 

I think you guys are just yanking my chain about this limitless budget thing...

 

yankidyy do!

[dgalehouse]

I'm not saying the money doesn't matter at all. Of course it does. Just saying that , since we signed Moreland instead of a more expensive option , we should be able to spring for Martinez and a free agent starting pitcher without busting John Henry's budget. The great thing about a franchise like the Red Sox is that they can overcome the occasional blunder like Sandoval. You can't be afraid to spend what it takes to build a championship caliber team because of a past mistake. This is a big time team in a big time , expensive business. Insane contracts are everywhere , but the teams are still very profitable. And worth more and more all the time. No need for us to sweat the spending. Edited December 19, 2017 by dgalehouse

[Jack Flap]

I'm not saying the money doesn't matter at all. Of course it does. Just saying that , since we signed Moreland instead of a more expensive option , we should be able to spring for Martinez and a free agent starting pitcher without busting John Henry's budget. The great thing about a franchise like the Red Sox is that they can overcome the occasional blunder like Sandoval. You can't be afraid to spend what it takes to build a championship caliber team because of a past mistake. This is a big time team in a big time , expensive business. Insane contracts are everywhere , but the teams are still very profitable. And worth more and more all the time. No need for us to sweat the spending.

 

No worries, I think I understood your post. There are definitely times when throwing around our financial might is called for, and this offseason (and probably the next) does feel like one of those times. I do think the Moreland signing was a precursor to bigger things, and if we could somehow land Martinez and a solid starter I'd definitely come away a happy camper.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm not saying the money doesn't matter at all. Of course it does. Just saying that , since we signed Moreland instead of a more expensive option , we should be able to spring for Martinez and a free agent starting pitcher without busting John Henry's budget. The great thing about a franchise like the Red Sox is that they can overcome the occasional blunder like Sandoval. You can't be afraid to spend what it takes to build a championship caliber team because of a past mistake. This is a big time team in a big time , expensive business. Insane contracts are everywhere , but the teams are still very profitable. And worth more and more all the time. No need for us to sweat the spending.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to be a fan of a team with a pile of money that's willing to spend it.

[Kimmi]

A weird offseason continues! Something seems to be going on behind the scenes,

 

Dave is by nature very aggressive, he usually does his impersonation of the black mamba, striking quick, without thinking and leaving a trail of dead bodies behind.

 

But this offseason, he is doing his best impersination of elephants having sex. There is a lot of dust and a lot of noise, but at the end of the day, there is not a lot really happening there.

 

And while I am comfortable with the Moreland signing, I feel this is plan g. And yet I can not figure out why or how dave got this far off track.

 

Signing Moreland gives Dombrowski a little bit of leverage. He can now wait out the market on JD, and if JD happens to sign with another team, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

[Kimmi]

So basically we’re fielding the same offense and expecting a different result. How is this not insane?

 

Positive regression.

 

Not that I think Dombrowski is finished adding offense, but I'm good with fielding this offense and adding another starting pitcher.

[Kimmi]

Loved that we resigned him. More bang for your buck on these kinds of deals. Also it's contract that could be moved.

 

You are speaking my language.