Kluber won AL Cy Young

[Northern Star]

Wasn't even close, 28-2. That swoon to end the season really hurt.

[Spudboy]

Kluber deserved to win.

[Slasher9]

good think JF blew out Sales arm to get those 300 k's. #personalgoals > #teamgoals

enjoy the unemployment line JF!

[mvp 78]

good think JF blew out Sales arm to get those 300 k's. #personalgoals > #teamgoals

enjoy the unemployment line JF!

 

There's nothing he could have done about it!!! It's Sale's fault for not being able to throw 300 innings.

[Bellhorn04]

Kluber had a 12.79 ERA against the Yankees. He must have also pitched too many innings. Nice work Tito!

[mvp 78]

FranCOMA

[sk7326]

Kluber was magnificent. Sale sputtered down the stretch - I do think Farrell's options were limited here though. The non-Sale parts of the rotation had flaws in performance and/or bulk which forced a lot of bullpen usage.

[Kimmi]

Kluber was magnificent. Sale sputtered down the stretch - I do think Farrell's options were limited here though. The non-Sale parts of the rotation had flaws in performance and/or bulk which forced a lot of bullpen usage.

 

Well said.

 

Congrats to Kluber. Well deserved.

[TylerD]

There's nothing he could have done about it!!! It's Sale's fault for not being able to throw 300 innings.

 

This. If your ace cant make it an entire season and play well in the playoffs he shouldn't be your ace...... It's that simple. Sale needs to put some weight on in the off season so he can last longer through the season. He looked burnt out as soon as the All Star Break was over. That just shouldn't happen when you are expected to be the Ace of a team. He played well as a reliever against Houston but outside of that his second half of the season was night and day to the first half...... and in my opinion that is not JF's fault what so ever.

[Northern Star]

This. If your ace cant make it an entire season and play well in the playoffs he shouldn't be your ace...... It's that simple. Sale needs to put some weight on in the off season so he can last longer through the season. He looked burnt out as soon as the All Star Break was over. That just shouldn't happen when you are expected to be the Ace of a team. He played well as a reliever against Houston but outside of that his second half of the season was night and day to the first half...... and in my opinion that is not JF's fault what so ever.

 

I think you missed the sarcasm. 300IP is 33 complete games.

[notin]

good think JF blew out Sales arm to get those 300 k's. #personalgoals > #teamgoals

enjoy the unemployment line JF!

 

Ummm... don't you have that backwards?

 

Farrell overused Sale when the Sox needed to win down the stretch. And that overuse likely cost Sale the Cy Young. I'm fairly certain this means it was for a team goal over a personal goal.

 

But I can see your complaint, if you prefer Cy Young winners over AL East winners....

[Spudboy]

It is possible to have both.

[Bellhorn04]

Ummm... don't you have that backwards?

 

Farrell overused Sale when the Sox needed to win down the stretch. And that overuse likely cost Sale the Cy Young. I'm fairly certain this means it was for a team goal over a personal goal.

 

But I can see your complaint, if you prefer Cy Young winners over AL East winners....

 

In general I defended Farrell's use of Sale. But the complaints about Farrell using Sale for 8 innings and 111 pitches in the September 20 game where he reached 300 K's may well be justified, especially when viewed with the wonderful clarity of hindsight. Farrell could easily have removed Sale after 6 innings in that one. Sale pitching like crap in the next 2 games doesn't help Farrell's case.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Bellhorn04

[Kimmi]

Ummm... don't you have that backwards?

 

Farrell overused Sale when the Sox needed to win down the stretch. And that overuse likely cost Sale the Cy Young. I'm fairly certain this means it was for a team goal over a personal goal.

 

But I can see your complaint, if you prefer Cy Young winners over AL East winners....

 

The idea of resting Sale more during the season has merit, but not in the last week of baseball when you are fighting for the division. IMO, that makes no sense. I know for a fact that if Farrell had rested Sale and the Sox ended up losing the division, we'd never hear the end of how stupid Farrell was for not starting his best pitcher.

 

Farrell got crucified for pushing Sale back one start before the west coast trip.

[Kimmi]

In general I defended Farrell's use of Sale. But the complaints about Farrell using Sale for 8 innings and 111 pitches in the September 20 game where he reached 300 K's may well be justified, especially when viewed with the wonderful clarity of hindsight. Farrell could easily have removed Sale after 6 innings in that one. Sale pitching like crap in the next 2 games don't help Farrell's case.

 

That's a fair point. OTOH, there's also the point of saving the pen arms when possible.

 

I can understand the argument for taking Sale out of that game, but I had no problem with leaving him in the game. He was breezing through that game.

[Bellhorn04]

That's a fair point. OTOH, there's also the point of saving the pen arms when possible.

 

I can understand the argument for taking Sale out of that game, but I had no problem with leaving him in the game. He was breezing through that game.

 

He was breezing, and that was part of the reason I was okay with it at the time. I thought it might even be a good thing for Sale's confidence to have such a dominating performance.

[moonslav59]

The idea of resting Sale more during the season has merit, but not in the last week of baseball when you are fighting for the division. IMO, that makes no sense. I know for a fact that if Farrell had rested Sale and the Sox ended up losing the division, we'd never hear the end of how stupid Farrell was for not starting his best pitcher.

 

Farrell got crucified for pushing Sale back one start before the west coast trip.

 

I don't remember any Crucifixion as the "push back" did not take away a start from Sale at the end of the season.

 

To me, the question should be about how to treat Sale next season:

 

Less starts?

 

Less pitches per start?

 

Same as this year?

 

Building up the pen might help with this choice. Lots of innings by Price, Pom and Porcello could be crucial but is hard to project.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't remember any Crucifixion as the "push back" did not take away a start from Sale at the end of the season.

 

 

Here's the game thread from the game Kimmi is referring to - scroll through a bit and you'll see there was a lot of complaining about Fister starting instead of Sale. I was one of the ones complaining.

 

http://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/18304-7-20-vs-Blue-Jays

[Kimmi]

I don't remember any Crucifixion as the "push back" did not take away a start from Sale at the end of the season.

 

To me, the question should be about how to treat Sale next season:

 

Less starts?

 

Less pitches per start?

 

Same as this year?

 

Building up the pen might help with this choice. Lots of innings by Price, Pom and Porcello could be crucial but is hard to project.

 

I think it makes sense to have Sale pitch fewer innings next year, both by pushing some starts back and by taking him out of the game earlier if the game is well in hand. Being able to do that does require some help from the other starters being able to go deeper into games and from the bullpen being able to keep the lead intact.

 

The FO has been discussing the matter, so I'm sure we will see better management of Sale's innings.

[Kimmi]

Here's the game thread from the game Kimmi is referring to - scroll through a bit and you'll see there was a lot of complaining about Fister starting instead of Sale. I was one of the ones complaining.

 

http://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/18304-7-20-vs-Blue-Jays

 

Thank you for finding that thread.

 

My point with this is that I think that lessening your best pitcher's innings is sometimes easier said than done. It's hard not to start your ace when you need a win.

[Slasher9]

Ummm... don't you have that backwards?

 

Farrell overused Sale when the Sox needed to win down the stretch. And that overuse likely cost Sale the Cy Young. I'm fairly certain this means it was for a team goal over a personal goal.

 

But I can see your complaint, if you prefer Cy Young winners over AL East winners....

 

incorrect. i laid it out completely in the other Sale/JF thread in realtime. JF was a f***ing idiot. and Sale was selfish. those 2 combined to cost us Quality starts in the postseason from our Ace.

[cp176]

incorrect. i laid it out completely in the other Sale/JF thread in realtime. JF was a f***ing idiot. and Sale was selfish. those 2 combined to cost us Quality starts in the postseason from our Ace.

 

I can buy someone thinking whatever Slasher about JF.. I get that but I sure wish that our team was stuffed to the brim with guys who approach the game like Chris Sale does. We need more not fewer guys like him. They shut their mouths and do things the right way. I didn't really enjoy this team much after the Pedroia/Price garbage - not two of my favorites by the way. Guys like Sale although we don't have many of them kept me interested.

[notin]

incorrect. i laid it out completely in the other Sale/JF thread in realtime. JF was a f***ing idiot. and Sale was selfish. those 2 combined to cost us Quality starts in the postseason from our Ace.

 

But.... I thought bad post-season starts were due to choking?

[Slasher9]

But.... I thought bad post-season starts were due to choking?

 

that's David Price.

[Bellhorn04]

that's David Price.

 

Maybe Price's regular season innings have been mismanaged too.

[Slasher9]

Maybe Price's regular season innings have been mismanaged too.

 

i haven't done the game by game logs for Price like i did for Sale but maybe. he did perform much better this years postseason than he usually does so maybe there is something to the quantity of innings with him as well.

[notin]

i haven't done the game by game logs for Price like i did for Sale but maybe. he did perform much better this years postseason than he usually does so maybe there is something to the quantity of innings with him as well.

 

I've always thought that was the biggest factor for most pitchers in the post-season.

[moonslav59]

I think it makes sense to have Sale pitch fewer innings next year, both by pushing some starts back and by taking him out of the game earlier if the game is well in hand. Being able to do that does require some help from the other starters being able to go deeper into games and from the bullpen being able to keep the lead intact.

 

The FO has been discussing the matter, so I'm sure we will see better management of Sale's innings.

 

Should have seen it this year.

 

For those who pushed back on the idea this year, whats dif'ferent about next year?

[Slasher9]

, whats dif'ferent about next year?

 

the dummy known as JF is gone.

[Bellhorn04]

Should have seen it this year.

 

For those who pushed back on the idea this year, whats dif'ferent about next year?

 

The only real difference is one more year of data.

 

I'll say this, it might not be possible to cut his innings back much next year either...it'll all depend on the circumstances.

 

Did you look at that game thread from July when Farrell started Fister over Sale? It's amusing in light of this discussion.