Coaching Staff

[Behindenemylines]

Don't even....

 

He is probably more of a sounding board for DD, and won't be anywhere near the dugout.

[a700hitter]

Wrong. She's positive that there is a cliff coming. She's positive that LaRussa was a bad hiring and that he'll be a meddler. Very positive thinking, imo.

I stand corrected.

[Kimmi]

It is a sound move. What you hope is that they have a plan to replace some of the catching instruction he was able to provide in his prior role.

 

My hope was that Varitek would take the role of bullpen coach. Unfortunately, that doesn't sound like it's going to happen.

[moonslav59]

My hope was that Varitek would take the role of bullpen coach. Unfortunately, that doesn't sound like it's going to happen.

 

I always expected VTek to end up with a significant role. He was such a student of the game.

[jacksonianmarch]

Tek made a lot of money in his career. The best managers are usually the guys who weren’t stars and guys who actually need the income initially before becoming successful

[sk7326]

I think moreover it is hard for great players to be great head coaches - because for them the sport is not that hard ... which makes it hard to relate to players who have to struggle more.

[Bellhorn04]

I wonder who is the best player of all time to manage a team to a World Series title?

[sk7326]

I wonder who is the best player of all time to manage a team to a World Series title?

 

Gil Hodges?

[Bellhorn04]

Gil Hodges?

 

Sounds right.

[Bellhorn04]

Paul Molitor might turn out to be a good one.

[sk7326]

I wonder who is the best player of all time to manage a team to a World Series title?

 

Since it's Sunday morning ... using bWAR

 

2010s managers

 

2011: Tony LaRussa -0.7 WAR

2012,2014: Bruce Bochy 2.4 WAR

2013: John Farrell 7.4 WAR

2015: Ned Yost -3.7 WAR

2016: Joe Maddon (no ML)

2017: AJ Hinch 0.1 WAR

 

2000s

 

2000: Joe Torre 57.6 WAR

2001: Bob Brenly 12.7 WAR

2002: Mike Scioscia 26.0 WAR

2003: Jack McKeon (no ML)

2004, 2007: Terry Francona -2.9 WAR

2005: Ozzie Guillen 20.9 WAR

2008: Charlie Manuel -2.3 WAR

2009: Joe Girardi 5.7 WAR

 

1990s:

 

1990: Lou Piniella 12.5 WAR

1991: Tom Kelly -0.5 WAR

1992, 1993: Cito Gaston -0.8 WAR

1995: Bobby Cox 0.9 WAR

1997: Jim Leyland (no ML)

 

1980s

 

1980: Dallas Green 2.2 WAR

1981: Tommy Lasorda -1.3 WAR

1982: Whitey Herzog 2.9 WAR

1983: Joe Altobelli -0.9 WAR

1984: Sparky Anderson -1.2 WAR

1985: Dick Howser 9.6 WAR

1986: Davey Johnson 27.5 WAR

 

1970s:

 

1970: Earl Weaver (no ML)

1971: Danny Murtaugh 6.4 WAR

1972, 1973: Dick Williams 3.4 WAR

1974: Al Dark 43.0 WAR

1977: Billy Martin 3.0 WAR

1978: Bob Lemon 48.8 WAR

1979: Chuck Tanner -0.2 WAR

 

1960s

 

1961-1962: Ralph Houk 0.1 WAR

1963: Walter Alston 0.0 WAR

1964: Johnny Keane (no ML)

1966: Hank Bauer 26.6 WAR

1967: Red Schoendienst 42.3 WAR

1968: Mayo Smith -0.7 WAR

1969: Gil Hodges 45.0 WAR

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So looking at since 1960, the nominees for this are

 

Joe Torre 57.6 WAR

Bob Lemon 48.8 WAR

Gil Hodges 45.0 WAR

Al Dark 43.0 WAR

Red Schoendinst 42.3 WAR

 

Obviously WAR is a starting point - then consider peakiness of career and such ...

[oldtimer]

In Ortiz book, "Papi-My Story" he talks about daily lineups being sent down by the front office in past administrations. Was it Theo, Luchino, or others. Is it still happening with Dombrowski? Not a very good thing to have happening with the manager being usurped. The behind the scenes activities we don't often hear about have a profound impact on the spirit in the dugout for managers, coaches and players.

[Kimmi]

In Ortiz book, "Papi-My Story" he talks about daily lineups being sent down by the front office in past administrations. Was it Theo, Luchino, or others. Is it still happening with Dombrowski? Not a very good thing to have happening with the manager being usurped. The behind the scenes activities we don't often hear about have a profound impact on the spirit in the dugout for managers, coaches and players.

 

I was just reading yesterday about how there seems to be a growing trend with teams hiring younger managers who are willing to take more direction from the front office. They want managers who are willing to accept and use the information collected by the analytics people. The Red Sox even created a new position for this, though the title of that position escapes me right now.

 

Three managers who were quite successful (Farrell, Girardi, and Baker) got fired this season. IMO, that's quite a statement.

[oldtimer]

I was just reading yesterday about how there seems to be a growing trend with teams hiring younger managers who are willing to take more direction from the front office. They want managers who are willing to accept and use the information collected by the analytics people. The Red Sox even created a new position for this, though the title of that position escapes me right now.

 

Three managers who were quite successful (Farrell, Girardi, and Baker) got fired this season. IMO, that's quite a statement.

 

Good observation. The question is whether the analytics are sent down for use by the manager in making decisions or the decisions are sent down to the manager for implementation. I would hope it is the first and that the hiring of younger analytics based managers means that they can benefit from the myriad of information that can be made available. Farrell was well liked by many of the players but may have overstayed his time and I support trying something new.

[cp176]

Good observation. The question is whether the analytics are sent down for use by the manager in making decisions or the decisions are sent down to the manager for implementation. I would hope it is the first and that the hiring of younger analytics based managers means that they can benefit from the myriad of information that can be made available. Farrell was well liked by many of the players but may have overstayed his time and I support trying something new.

 

Any manager who isn't willing to accept helpful information of any kind, should not be managing. I know of no managers who flat out refuse the help of specialists in analytics. Some probably use analytics to a greater extent than others but that is just the way it is.

[Kimmi]

Good observation. The question is whether the analytics are sent down for use by the manager in making decisions or the decisions are sent down to the manager for implementation. I would hope it is the first and that the hiring of younger analytics based managers means that they can benefit from the myriad of information that can be made available. Farrell was well liked by many of the players but may have overstayed his time and I support trying something new.

 

I don't think any GM wants to dictate to his manager how he needs to manage. However, managers have typically been very old school. Front offices and GMs are becoming more and more new school. IMO, this is creating an increasingly larger disconnect between the manager and the front office. I think GMs are looking for managers who will embrace the analytics that are sent down to them and are willing to go against the traditional grain. In other words, GMs are looking for managers who are on the same page as their front offices.

[oldtimer]

I don't think any GM wants to dictate to his manager how he needs to manage. However, managers have typically been very old school. Front offices and GMs are becoming more and more new school. IMO, this is creating an increasingly larger disconnect between the manager and the front office. I think GMs are looking for managers who will embrace the analytics that are sent down to them and are willing to go against the traditional grain. In other words, GMs are looking for managers who are on the same page as their front offices.

 

You are giving some front office individuals perhaps more credit than they deserve. Yes, to be successful they have to follow a logical process. On the otheer hand, these guys have egos and opinions and my well want to have a say into what might be thought of as the managers perogative. Papi pointed out that it happened to Farrell and it might also happen to Cora.

[Kimmi]

You are giving some front office individuals perhaps more credit than they deserve. Yes, to be successful they have to follow a logical process. On the otheer hand, these guys have egos and opinions and my well want to have a say into what might be thought of as the managers perogative. Papi pointed out that it happened to Farrell and it might also happen to Cora.

 

I don't necessarily disagree, which is why I think GMs want managers who are going to be open to the FO's suggestions. Yes, there are certainly going to be times when a GM dictates some things to the manager. For instance, a GM might want a certain player to get more playing time, for one reason or another, than a manager wants to give him. But I don't think that GMs really want to interfere with the day to day decisions like line up construction and bullpen usage.

 

Along the same line of what you are saying, and I know you disagree, but I think that's a big reason why LaRussa was hired. Dombrowski gets credit for trying to embrace analytics with the hiring of Cora and the special liaison guy, but he has his old school guy in place as an advisor, 'just in case'.

[Larry Cook]

How does the new coaching staff compare to the prior staff?

 

Seems to be like we took a step forward with the hitting coach. Neutral on the pitching coach and a step backwards for all other coaches.

[moonslav59]

How does the new coaching staff compare to the prior staff?

 

Seems to be like we took a step forward with the hitting coach. Neutral on the pitching coach and a step backwards for all other coaches.

 

No Farrell is addition by subtraction.

 

I'm hopeful Cora is the right guy.

[cp176]

How does the new coaching staff compare to the prior staff?

 

Seems to be like we took a step forward with the hitting coach. Neutral on the pitching coach and a step backwards for all other coaches.

 

"Seems to be like" - probably a good way to say it because none of us has any idea as to how all of the coaching changes will amount to anything at all.

[Spudboy]

"Seems to be like" - probably a good way to say it because none of us has any idea as to how all of the coaching changes will amount to anything at all.

 

Yup. Opinion based on hearsay and even less. I know nothing about the new coaches. I have no idea what they will do to better the quality of ball being played.

[cp176]

Being a Maine guy, I admit my bias. I like Butterfield. I also liked Amaro. They both were tireless workers who knew how to teach the game. I hope that Feebles is a good one.

[S5Dewey]

Being a Maine guy, I admit my bias. I like Butterfield. I also liked Amaro. They both were tireless workers who knew how to teach the game. I hope that Feebles is a good one.

 

The rumor in this part of the state is that Butterfield was offered a contract but turned it down, wanting Cora to have a chance to have all of his own new people there.

[cp176]

The rumor in this part of the state is that Butterfield was offered a contract but turned it down, wanting Cora to have a chance to have all of his own new people there.

 

That would not surprise me at all. Class!