Stanton or Votto

[moonslav59]

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS200310050.shtml

 

You're also misremembering the A's series as well. I think Ortiz played an integral part in winning game 4.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTVR2g61D50 Skip to 1:03:30

 

I'm not misremembering it.

 

Was he not 2 for 21?

 

Yes, he had a hit that led to a run.

[Dojji]

The only reason Stanton's name is even being bandied about is that everyone knows the Marlins need to get his contract off their books.

 

And again only a few teams can afford to take on that contract.

 

that's not as true as it was 10 years ago, and either way, the Mariners seem likely a likely destination for Stanton to me, they have money to spend, have a young core, have an ace, need the offense, and have some prospects to move IIRC. Also they could really use to make a splash to excite the fans. If I had to pick one team to go get Stanton, it would be the M's.

[Carpin]

The only reason Stanton's name is even being bandied about is that everyone knows the Marlins need to get his contract off their books.

 

And again only a few teams can afford to take on that contract.

 

The teams who can afford him and have the goods to get him are only a few, LAD, BOS, SF, Cards

 

There are more teams who can use him, but either don't have the prospects/players to get him or the money

[Carpin]

that's not as true as it was 10 years ago, and either way, the Mariners seem likely a likely destination for Stanton to me, they have money to spend, have a young core, have an ace, need the offense, and have some prospects to move IIRC. Also they could really use to make a splash to excite the fans. If I had to pick one team to go get Stanton, it would be the M's.

 

The m's have a good chance, but my money is with LAD, a lot of money coming out of the books and the prospects to make it happen. I read that the Giants are the early favorite to land him, it looks like he's going west.

 

If not for the farm I'd say the Angels will land him, the owner is known for making bold moves and he's not afraid to add payroll; also the "Trout window" will close in a couple years and they need to win now. They just don't have the prospects to land him unless the Marlins are in a hurry to dump that contract.

[harmony]

that's not as true as it was 10 years ago, and either way, the Mariners seem likely a likely destination for Stanton to me, they have money to spend, have a young core, have an ace, need the offense, and have some prospects to move IIRC. Also they could really use to make a splash to excite the fans. If I had to pick one team to go get Stanton, it would be the M's.

This perplexed Mariner fan does not see Seattle as a likely destination for Giancarlo Stanton.

 

The Mariners have some money to spend with only $92.6 million committed to 2018 after a 2017 payroll of about $155 million:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FPmVBnzTPHvWfnpemP2Dt_CRyg7Mf12wW62BpgNjxIY/edit#gid=0

 

However, the core of Robinson Cano, Nelson Cruz, Kyle Seager, Jean Segura, Mike Zunino, James Paxton and Felix Hernandez is not particularly young as they enter their age 35, 37, 30, 28, 27, 29 and 32 seasons.

 

Seattle lacks an ace as an aging Hernandez has lost that status and injuries have slowed James Paxton's ascent to that status.

 

Over the past two seasons the Mariner hitters have ranked second in the American League with a wRC+ of 105:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=al&qual=0&type=8&season=2017&month=0&season1=2016&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=16,d

 

Meanwhile, Seattle pitchers ranked 12th in the league in fWAR this year:

 

http://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/18478-Stanton-or-Votto/page11

 

... and 11th in ERA+ at 96:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL/2017-standard-pitching.shtml

 

According to MLB Prospect Watch, Seattle has only one prospect in the Top 100, outfielder Kyle Lewis at No. 41:

 

http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2017?list=prospects

 

The Mariners are more likely to pursue Shohei Ohtani than Giancarlo Stanton.

[moonslav59]

I'm in general agreement. I'm assuming the Marlins will want one top notch prospect at least and the Red Sox don't have that. They would have to surrender either Devers or Benintendi but that kind of trade doesn't work for the Red Sox.

 

Maybe Bradley Jr. to another team for a prospect and then trade that prospect to the Marlins? That would be the Red Sox's best hope IMO. Overall, the Red Sox are limited in what they can do since Dombrowski already drained the farm system of top prospects. I also don't believe that Bogaerts has significant trade value at this time. The fact that Red Sox fans would like to ship out Bogaerts pretty much tells the whole story on his declining trade value.

 

I wouldn't give up valuable prospects for Stanton anyway, not when the Red Sox can get Machado in next year's free agency. Dombrowski has already tried the approach of trading the kids for established stars and it hasn't worked thus far. The established stars he traded for, Sale and Kimbrel, were responsible for the Red Sox's exit in the 2017 playoffs. Brilliant.

 

1) I'm not so sure Stanton will cost that much, if the team takes on his whole salary.

 

2) We shot for a 3 year window, and one is already gone. Waiting one more year for Machado pretty much pisses one more away.

 

[mvp 78]

I'm not misremembering it.

 

Was he not 2 for 21?

 

Yes, he had a hit that led to a run.

 

Way to bury the lede in Ortiz winning game 4 and staving off elimination.

[moonslav59]

Way to bury the lede in Ortiz winning game 4 and staving off elimination.

 

not mentioning it is does not mean I forgot it.

 

One could make the point that we got so close to elimination in part because of Papi being 1 for 21 apart from that big hit.

 

It reminds me of the argument used by John Elway fans. "Look at all the comebacks!"

 

I reply, "Why behind so often?"

 

Look, I'm not taking anything away from Papi. The guy was amazing! Nobody has ever come through when it counted more than he did. Ever. Not even close.

 

Even the series with the Tigers in '13. He sucked all series and then hit the grand slam that changed everything. The guy is a living legend.

 

(BTW, I love seeing him as a commentator. He's funny and insightful.)

[Larry Cook]

Heyman says giants interested in Stanton.

 

It actually makes sense for them.

[mvp 78]

I am saddened that you overlooked the posts about this by Slash and myself.

 

My apologies. I've been pretty busy this week and haven't been able to keep up.

 

Good news though, I should have a lot more time on my hands next week to continue my onslaught of shitposting!

[mvp 78]

not mentioning it is does not mean I forgot it.

 

But you forgot it though.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Heyman says giants interested in Stanton.

 

It actually makes sense for them.

 

It makes sense--the Giants need him, but they have a pretty weak farm system too. If Stanton costs one blue chip prospect, I'm not sure how the Giants acquire him.

 

The Giants will have either the first or second pick in the 2018 draft but it'll obviously be too late at that point.

[moonslav59]

But you forgot it though.

 

Interesting that you assume you know my thoughts.

 

I may be losing my memory in my old age, but I did remember the hit.

 

I remember that I thought the right fielder should have caught the ball and then I think he misplayed the bounce off the wall or something.

[Larry Cook]

It makes sense--the Giants need him, but they have a pretty weak farm system too. If Stanton costs one blue chip prospect, I'm not sure how the Giants acquire him.

 

The Giants will have either the first or second pick in the 2018 draft but it'll obviously be too late at that point.

 

If only baseball allowed teams to trade draft picks like other sports!!!!

[moonslav59]

If only baseball allowed teams to trade draft picks like other sports!!!!

 

Yes!

 

Then, not only could we trade away the farm, we could trade away our future farm!

[a700hitter]

Yes!

 

Then, not only could we trade away the farm, we could trade away our future farm!

Yes, but we could get to the cliff so much faster.

[moonslav59]

Yes, but we could get to the cliff so much faster.

 

Not really.

[a700hitter]

Not really.

I'm a cliff-denier anyway.

[moonslav59]

Trading draft picks would turn the cliff into a wide canyon.

[Larry Cook]

Yes!

 

Then, not only could we trade away the farm, we could trade away our future farm!

 

Only a truly desperate loser of a GM would do that!

 

Oh wait! My bad! I forgot what our desperate, plan less, loser GM did in a matter of moments our farm system, formerly the best farm system in baseball!!

 

Hey desperate Dave, where is that World Series trophy we just about emptied the farm system for????

 

What’s thst you say, dave? Wait til next year!

 

Give me a break. Desperate dave needs a one way taxi ride to the airport!

[Dojji]

Dombrowski is doing exactly what the ownership hired him to do. He's here to maximize the team's chances to win next year, and rinse and repeat until all the ammunition in the shot locker is depleted. That's Dombrowski's MO, and Henry hired him in full knowledge of this. If you don't like that style of baseball, your problem is with Henry, not DD.

[Bellhorn04]

Dombrowski is doing exactly what the ownership hired him to do. He's here to maximize the team's chances to win next year, and rinse and repeat until all the ammunition in the shot locker is depleted. That's Dombrowski's MO, and Henry hired him in full knowledge of this. If you don't like that style of baseball, your problem is with Henry, not DD.

 

Pretty much.

[notin]

If only baseball allowed teams to trade draft picks like other sports!!!!

 

So you complain that the farm is depleted, and now you wish baseball allowed us to also deal the primary way to restock it?

[notin]

And some of his "farm depletion" was through promotion to MLB, not trade.

 

I will say he certainly didn't waste any of his farm trading chips, either. Every player he acquired for a good prospect(s) was actually good player who is controlled for multiple seasons...

[cp176]

And some of his "farm depletion" was through promotion to MLB, not trade.

 

I will say he certainly didn't waste any of his farm trading chips, either. Every player he acquired for a good prospect(s) was actually good player who is controlled for multiple seasons...

 

You dare be sensible with Larry around! lol - I agree with you and if anyone thinks that it was the players that we traded to improve our team that made made our farm the best in baseball (which i highly doubt it was) they are number than the proverbial club. Most of those guys were destined to be in the pile of Merreros, Hernandez's, Lins, etc.

[notin]

You dare be sensible with Larry around! lol - I agree with you and if anyone thinks that it was the players that we traded to improve our team that made made our farm the best in baseball (which i highly doubt it was) they are number than the proverbial club. Most of those guys were destined to be in the pile of Merreros, Hernandez's, Lins, etc.

 

I hated the Pomeranz trade, but the guy turned out to be a legit pitcher. and his peripherals over the past couple seasons suggest this isn't a one-season wonder. The odds that Espinoza actually turn out as good are shrinking rapidly (which doesn't make him garbage)...

[notin]

My offseason expectations are somewhat minimal.

 

I do hope Dombrowski leaves the outfield alone. Fon't deal Bradley

 

I hope if anyone is dealt for a legit power hitting 1B, it is Bogaerts. Not because I think he is an underachiever, but because he has less control left than Bradley, and as recently as July, had more trade value per fangraphs than all but 44 players in MLB. I do realize there is actually a chance Bogaerts has an unprecedented breakout year and solves a big chunk of the power void himself, but I prefer not banking on that.

 

Obviously, that would have a fallout of getting a new SS. I'd saciifice the offense here for defense.

 

THe real issue the Sox have this off-season is trad bait. Especially if there are any limits on the budget.

 

JD Martinez seems like the easy answer. But there are two problems 1) it's his choice. He might prefer a number of other options. And 2) he might be looking at 6 years $130mill or so, which will take him to age 37. If you don''t like 34yo Hanley, what do you realistically expect from Martinez as he ages?

[Bellhorn04]

JD Martinez seems like the easy answer. But there are two problems 1) it's his choice. He might prefer a number of other options. And 2) he might be looking at 6 years $130mill or so, which will take him to age 37. If you don''t like 34yo Hanley, what do you realistically expect from Martinez as he ages?

 

Can we infer from the Encarnacion contract that 'the industry' is not as willing to spend like drunken sailors for DH types now?

[notin]

Can we infer from the Encarnacion contract that 'the industry' is not as willing to spend like drunken sailors for DH types now?

 

I'm not sure. That contract might have also been a negatively perfect storm for Encarnacion. Don't forget he turned down a bigger deal from Toronto.

 

The fact that Boston (sometimes the drunkest of the sailors) stepped out of the bidding really hurt EE's chances.

[Bellhorn04]

I suspect the Red Sox are prepared to do whatever it takes to sign Martinez.