Stanton or Votto

[Examiner]

Votto is probably the best pure hitter in the league - combining power, production and being able to take good at bats

 

Thats true most of the time, but I'm telling you, I've watched the Reds all my life, and trust me, Votto CAN be a head case.

[harmony]

I think they absolutely shop Goldschmidt - or at least let everybody know they will take a phone call ... this season was amazing for them, but if Goldschmidt can net a king's fortune Abington, MA Mike Hazen has to take a look.

The Diamondbacks are as likely to shop Paul Goldschmidt as the Red Sox are to shop Mookie Betts.

[sk7326]

The Diamondbacks are as likely to shop Paul Goldschmidt as the Red Sox are to shop Mookie Betts.

 

They had such an extraordinary season that the team will ask "how close are they REALLY". That will drive this. Now obviously they are much more likely to deal Greinke - but I think they will see if someone will blow them away. (it probably won't happen)

[jacksonianmarch]

Sooooo, the DBacks just won 90+ games and came up against a buzzsaw in LA and now they’re going to deal their best player.

[Spudboy]

I don't know the DBack's situation but I doubt that they are up against the cap.

 

It would not surprise me if they held onto JD as well as Goldshmidt.

[harmony]

I don't know the DBack's situation but I doubt that they are up against the cap.

 

It would not surprise me if they held onto JD as well as Goldshmidt.

Even with Zack Greinke's $34 million salary, the Diamondbacks have only $60 million in salary committed for 2018 with arbitration salaries awaiting A.J. Pollock, Patrick Corbin and others:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17aqI3EVO_C6fm3kVOYzqJMmaotL2ecszatykk5m7D9I/edit#gid=0

[sk7326]

Sooooo, the DBacks just won 90+ games and came up against a buzzsaw in LA and now they’re going to deal their best player.

 

No - they won 90 games and have to figure out if the 90 win team is really them or the 69 win version of 2016 is. Is it a fluke or not - and then what do you do? I doubt they deal Goldschmidt - but this is the prime window to do so if you think there is a fluke.

[harmony]

No - they won 90 games and have to figure out if the 90 win team is really them or the 69 win version of 2016 is. Is it a fluke or not - and then what do you do? I doubt they deal Goldschmidt - but this is the prime window to do so if you think there is a fluke.

To be precise, the 2017 Diamondbacks won 93 games.

 

The 2016 Red Sox won 93 games coming off two straight last-place finishes but did not approach the 2017 season assuming the 93 wins in 2016 represented a fluke.

 

For what it's worth, this year the Diamondback posted 43.0 fWAR while the Red Sox posted 41.7 fWAR. The D-backs lose only J.D. Martinez,. David Hernandez, Fernando Rodney, Jorge de la Rosa, Chris Iannetta and Tom Wilhelmsen to free agency.

 

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/mlb/diamondbacks/2017/10/13/arizona-diamondbacks-roster-contracts-arbitration-free-agency/761879001/

Edited October 25, 2017 by harmony

[notin]

No - they won 90 games and have to figure out if the 90 win team is really them or the 69 win version of 2016 is. Is it a fluke or not - and then what do you do? I doubt they deal Goldschmidt - but this is the prime window to do so if you think there is a fluke.

 

 

They're not going to try to figure anything out. They're going to do what every good team does - try to improve.

 

They may have to trade a couple decent players for financial reasons - potentially AJ Pollack, per MLBTR. But they aren't going to decide that last year was a fluke and they neef to deal Goldschmidt and bury themselves for a few years.

 

But if they did, no way could the Sox acquire him. Not without giving up numerous players no one wants to part with.

[oldtimer]

I don't know the DBack's situation but I doubt that they are up against the cap.

 

It would not surprise me if they held onto JD as well as Goldshmidt.

 

Here is something I read on the subject:

“It would be hard to trade him,” a rival scout said. “I would think the fan base would have to have something to hold on to. He’s really the face of the organization. It would be hard to part with that.”

 

They also could go a different direction – a contract extension – but that likely would not come easy. Last season, Goldschmidt switched representation to Casey Close, a high-powered agent who has negotiated record-breaking deals for Clayton Kershaw and Greinke. An extension could conservatively cost the Diamondbacks in excess of $20 million per year – and perhaps much more.

 

Not only would that sort of deal be difficult for the Diamondbacks to afford with Greinke already on board through 2021, it also would be risky to devote those kind of resources to a player who will be in his mid-to-late 30s, particularly for a team with payroll limitations.

 

If they do face a rebuild, they’ll have to confront the same questions as they relate to center fielder A.J. Pollock, who will be eligible for free agency after next season.

 

Capitalizing on Goldschmidt’s and Pollock’s prime was part of what compelled the club to sign Greinke and trade for Shelby Miller prior to last season. And while it hasn’t happened yet, it’s possible things turn around this year. That, at least, is what the Diamondbacks are hoping.

[mvp 78]

Sooooo, the DBacks just won 90+ games and came up against a buzzsaw in LA and now they’re going to deal their best player.

 

Yup, that's how things work on this board. Any good player needs to be traded to BOS, because all other fandoms are undeserving of good talent.

[moonslav59]

Yup, that's how things work on this board. Any good player needs to be traded to BOS, because all other fandoms are undeserving of good talent.

 

So true, but that's what people kept telling me when I dreamed of Chris Sale in a Sox uniform.

[mvp 78]

So true, but that's what people kept telling me when I dreamed of Chris Sale in a Sox uniform.

 

Chris Sale was also obviously shooting his way out of town in 2016. It's not surprising he was traded. Votto seems a long shot. There is no way in hell that Goldschmidt leaves AZ this offseason.

[jacksonianmarch]

Sale was on a rebuilding team

[Bellhorn04]

Votto is on a team that should be rebuilding.

[moonslav59]

Chris Sale was also obviously shooting his way out of town in 2016. It's not surprising he was traded. Votto seems a long shot. There is no way in hell that Goldschmidt leaves AZ this offseason.

 

I was told for years that the CWS were not going to trade Sale, Quintana and others. This was long before the blown-up by the media uniform cutting incident.

 

Quintana was actually my number one choice due to lower salary and one more year of control.

 

I had hoped we'd have saved many of the prospects traded away, so we could have gotten both of those guys plus maybe Abreu.

 

Maybe we'd be without Pom or Kimbrel of maybe even Thornburg (and Groome) if we got lucky.

[moonslav59]

Sale was on a rebuilding team

 

They had a nice core of cost-controlled players under team control for 3-4 years.

 

They chose to rebuild. It was not a slam-dunk decision.

 

They also have more spending capabilities than a team like Miami.

[OH FOY]

150 million owed at 34. Nope. Save the money for Machado. Patience. You can even think Harper.

[moonslav59]

Votto is on a team that should be rebuilding.

 

While I agree, there are sometimes unique circumstances that over-ride what seems clear as day.

 

Votto wants to stay in Cincy. The fans love him. They are not a real poor team looking to cut salary. He makes them money, despite his huge salary and the percentage of their budget he takes up.

 

It does seem like they do better trading him, but there's more to it than just surface examination.

[moonslav59]

150 million owed at 34. Nope. Save the money for Machado. Patience. You can even think Harper.

 

Agreed. If they took HRam plus more prospects, I'd think about it.

[mvp 78]

Votto is on a team that should be rebuilding.

 

CIN has a decent offense. The pitching is what hurt them this year. Replacing Bailey and Arroyo should fix a lot of those concerns. Castillo is a great young pitcher. Amir Garrett has a ton of upside. Robert Stephenson has been a highly regarded prospect for a while. Desclafani is pretty solid if he is healthy next year. Adding two average starters will get them over .500 next year.

[mvp 78]

While I agree, there are sometimes unique circumstances that over-ride what seems clear as day.

 

Votto wants to stay in Cincy. The fans love him. They are not a real poor team looking to cut salary. He makes them money, despite his huge salary and the percentage of their budget he takes up.

 

It does seem like they do better trading him, but there's more to it than just surface examination.

 

Yup, he's the guy that puts the butts in the seats (there are still a lot of empty seats there though).

[OH FOY]

Harper just turned 25 Oct. 16, be 26 and FA, sign him for 10 years, he'll still be younger than Votto when he is done with his contract. This is guy that will put people in the seats.

[mvp 78]

Harper just turned 25 Oct. 16, be 26 and FA, sign him for 10 years, he'll still be younger than Votto when he is done with his contract. This is guy that will put people in the seats.

 

Can't hit in the postseason and is a large part of the Nats choking.

[OH FOY]

So you think Machado is better? Votto? You have nothing to base anything on them. Plenty of Players have a tough time in Play-offs or WS. Not enough games, you have to go by seasons. Bet the Yanks wont be worried about them. Edited October 25, 2017 by OH FOY!

[moonslav59]

Can't hit in the postseason and is a large part of the Nats choking.

 

.801 playoff OPS is not what kept the Nats from ever advancing.

[mvp 78]

.801 playoff OPS is not what kept the Nats from ever advancing.

 

Skewed by one good playoff series against the Giants. He's an overrated choker.

[moonslav59]

Skewed by one good playoff series against the Giants. He's an overrated choker.

 

Most small sample sizes are skewed one way or the other by one great or bad series.

[harmony]

Yup, that's how things work on this board. Any good player needs to be traded to BOS, because all other fandoms are undeserving of good talent.

It's not limited to this board.

 

MassLive columnist Jen McCaffrey suggests that the Twins and the Brewers, who this year made 26-win and 13-win improvements over 2016, trade some of their best players for Red Sox scraps:

 

http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2017/10/boston_red_sox_potential_trade.html#incart_river_index

[moonslav59]

It's not limited to this board.

 

MassLive columnist Jen McCaffrey suggests that the Twins and the Brewers, who this year made 26-win and 13-win improvements over 2016, trade some of their best players for Red Sox scraps:

 

http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2017/10/boston_red_sox_potential_trade.html#incart_river_index

 

LOL!

 

Let's do all of these:

 

OF/DH Giancarlo Stanton for CF Jackie Bradley Jr., 3B Michael Chavis. RHP Tanner Houck and 1B Josh Ockimey.

 

2B/SS Brian Dozier for 1B Sam Travis, utility man Tzu-Wei Lin andMike Shawaryn.

 

1B/OF Eric Thames for 1B Ockimey or Travis (sub Chavis to make it work) and P Travis Lakins

 

RHP Ervin Santana for P Bryan Mata & Brian Johnson

 

RHP Joakim Soria for Jalen Beeks

 

They also suggest the hilarious Josh Ockimey and Sam Travis as well as third baseman Michael Chavis would be in play for a trade for Goldchmidt.