2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[mvp 78]

Lucroy is a far superior player than both those players ...tell you what we can revisit this in a few short months and compare players ...I'm betting on his career norm ...you can have those two players career norms ...we will see .

 

Ok. Are we betting solely on defense? What metrics?

[mvp 78]

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/jonathan-lucroy-and-the-new-decline/

 

His defense has been on the decline since 2013.

 

It's a certainty that it will continue on that path in 2018.

[moonslav59]

I think our catchers do a lot of things not measured by stats or new metrics.

 

I do not view our catching tandem as a weakness, despite the lower than average offense.

 

To me, our biggest weakness is 1B, and that's why I hated the Moreland signing.Fangraphs positional projected rankings:

 

The Sox...

 

1st RF 5.7

1st DH 2.8

4th 2B 2.9

5th CF 3.6

5th LF 3.2

8th SS 3.5

14th 3B 2.8

20th C 2.0

22nd 1B 1.3

 

8th SP 15.9

11th RP 3.9

 

2nd Batting 27.9

8th Pitching 19.8

 

6th overall 47.7

 

1. Astros 55.2

2. LAD 50.6

3. NYY 50.0

4. Cubs 49.8

5. CLE 48.7

 

 

 

Our next weakest link might be 6th and 7th starter, but I don't see other teams with much better than we have.

 

IF defense is another weak area.

 

I think our pen will be fine with Smith joining in and maybe Thornburg, too.

Edited March 12, 2018 by moonslav59

[Natick to NC]

MVP He has been banged up ...it's part of playing that position ...please don't sleep on that Bat though and that arm they are both legit ...Framing I can absolutely see a decline in this if you're arm or hand or wrist is sore ...you may get lazy...I don't know ...I know that swing ...I know that arm ...I know his red ass approach .Boston was a fit unless we give that 2 slot to Blake and I'd be ecstatic over the moon for this to happen ...Sandys time should be spent as a mentor and backup to Blake who is also a superior Athelete and also has a hit tool that could produce 20 plus HR and a better average than Sandy ...Ill take Blake over Sandy every time .

[mvp 78]

MVP He has been banged up ...it's part of playing that position ...please don't sleep on that Bat though and that arm they are both legit ...Framing I can absolutely see a decline in this if you're arm or hand or wrist is sore ...you may get lazy...I don't know ...I know that swing ...I know that arm ...I know his red ass approach .Boston was a fit unless we give that 2 slot to Blake and I'd be ecstatic over the moon for this to happen ...Sandys time should be spent as a mentor and backup to Blake who is also a superior Athelete and also has a hit tool that could produce 20 plus HR and a better average than Sandy ...Ill take Blake over Sandy every time .

 

I'll take Blake over Sandy too FTR.

 

I just think Lucroy WAS a legit at one point. He isn't anymore. If he was still good, teams would have been all over him. Once his defense cratered, every GM was scared off. He had no QO attached to him. If he was still good, he would have been signed in November.

[Natick to NC]

I don't think after the last couple playoff debacles we can have any position that is D only ...

[mvp 78]

I don't think after the last couple playoff debacles we can have any position that is D only ...

 

Then you should be fine with trading Pedey.

[Natick to NC]

I'll take Blake over Sandy too FTR.

 

I just think Lucroy WAS a legit at one point. He isn't anymore. If he was still good, teams would have been all over him. Once his defense cratered, every GM was scared off. He had no QO attached to him. If he was still good, he would have been signed in November.

 

MVP that's fair ..I just always dreamed of the player crushing it here if given the chance ...oh well .

[Natick to NC]

Then you should be fine with trading Pedey.

 

I'm more than Ok with trading any player to improve our team ...I loved Nomar but I loved the parade a hell of a lot more .MVP this is about you and me and the rest of us fans getting parades ....whAt ever players accomplish that feet matters verrrry little to me .Now are there players you like more than me ? and vice Versa? God I hope so !!! This place would suck if we agreed on everything ....hey with Regards to Pedey Directly ....I'm ready to move on from this player to upgrade ...yes... and no I'm not sad about him leaving .I am happy to have seen him play .

Edited March 12, 2018 by Natick to NC

[mvp 78]

I'm more than Ok with trading any player to improve our team ...I loved Nomar but I loved the parade a hell of a lot more .MVP this is about you and me and the rest of us fans getting parades ....whAt ever players accomplish that feet matters verrrry little to me .Now are there players you like more than me ? and vice Versa? God I hope so !!! This place would suck if we agreed on everything .

 

If there is a poster who loves Devers more than me, I haven't met them yet.

[Natick to NC]

If there is a poster who loves Devers more than me, I haven't met them yet.

 

Ohh boy that is debatable my friend ...he's special he makes me sit up in my chair every at bat ....he to me is not a third baseman though and I'll admit that even though it killlllllllllls me to say it ....yea he's young but it's just not a smooth position for him ...MVP he can hit and right now his D can suck and I wouldn't give a rip ...it's passable though and that's great .Devers swing is so pure it's fluid and without much strain if anyyyy at all ...when he connects which he does often his ball just lifts off ...he alone for me gives me hope ...it's not Mookie and Mook is great it's the kid he's a star .David Ortiz is right about Devers and those of us who have followed his path know this is no fluke ....He can flat out Hit...Best thing about Devers ? We get to watch him hit here for alooooong time .

Edited March 12, 2018 by Natick to NC

[moonslav59]

Devers just seems to hit, and hit and hit, no matter where he is playing.

 

I hope his defense improves quickly, but his bat will more than make-up for any defensive short-comings.

 

Some speak of Price, Porcello, Bogey, JBJ or Pedey as being "the key" to a great season, but Devers just might carry this team on his young shoulders for long stretches this year.

 

He's a pure hitter, and his approach differs from other Sox players, which is something we need to keep opposing pitchers off guard.

[cp176]

Devers just seems to hit, and hit and hit, no matter where he is playing.

 

I hope his defense improves quickly, but his bat will more than make-up for any defensive short-comings.

 

Some speak of Price, Porcello, Bogey, JBJ or Pedey as being "the key" to a great season, but Devers just might carry this team on his young shoulders for long stretches this year.

 

He's a pure hitter, and his approach differs from other Sox players, which is something we need to keep opposing pitchers off guard.

 

Couple of things - I really hope Devers can field that position . Right now not so much. I'm pulling for him. Come on kid.

If we keep Sandy Leon, he will give us a better backup behind the plate than most other teams. Say what you will the man can catch. Much as I like Swihart it's going to take him a long time to get to Sandy's level as a backstop if he ever can. Sandy may even push Vazquez. It will depend on how each hits I think. Two solid catchers.

[moonslav59]

Couple of things - I really hope Devers can field that position . Right now not so much. I'm pulling for him. Come on kid.

If we keep Sandy Leon, he will give us a better backup behind the plate than most other teams. Say what you will the man can catch. Much as I like Swihart it's going to take him a long time to get to Sandy's level as a backstop if he ever can. Sandy may even push Vazquez. It will depend on how each hits I think. Two solid catchers.

 

I totally agree on the catcher point.

 

Swihart hit pretty well, when he started for us. He wasn't replaced for no reason.

 

He will probably never be a plus defensive catcher. I'd like to see Swi make the team as a 4/5th OF'er, 2/3rd 1Bman and 3rd catcher.

 

Our pitching staff outpitched projections last year, especially the pen. That was not a fluke. Our catchers do a great job calling games, framing pitches and other intangible things. I'm not for messing with a good thing.

 

I'd like to see Vaz play more than last year, but I still see Leon as the number 2.

 

[Kimmi]

I'm with you guys. I don't see why it's the least bit controversial to want to have as much pitching depth as you possibly can. Someone referred to it as hoarding, and well...um...yes? You know you're almost always going to need more than 6-7 starting pitchers to get through a season, so why not make sure your ass is covered? Sure, I'd prefer to give those spot starts and fill-in duties to someone in our organization if possible, and maybe Johnson/Velazquez/Elias/Beeks/etc. are up to the task, but what if they're not? Or what if Price's elbow starts acting up again at the same time Pomeranz needs a 15-day DL stint, or Rodriguez has a setback in his recovery, and so on. It just makes sense to stock your shelves ahead of time rather than being left scrambling when you need it.

 

That said, there are a few interesting veteran pitchers still unsigned, and I doubt Dombrowski has just overlooked them. I'd say we sign someone in the fairly near future, if I had to guess.

 

Well you, sir, have a lot of common sense. I couldn't agree more with what you said.

 

I know Dombrowski is aware of who is still available. I'm a little surprised he hasn't signed any starters to a minor league deal yet. I hope you're right about him adding someone soon.

 

He signed a reliever to a minor league deal today. The name escapes me at the moment.

[Kimmi]

Lucroy is a far superior player than both those players ...tell you what we can revisit this in a few short months and compare players ...I'm betting on his career norm ...you can have those two players career norms ...we will see .

 

Lucroy was once an elite defender, at least in terms of pitch framing. I suppose it's possible that he could rebound, if healthy, but I think MVP is right in saying that his best days are behind him.

 

Our catching tandem (with Swihart as a possible 3rd catcher) is pretty good. I'm not sure why you are so eager to replace Leon with Lucroy.

[Kimmi]

Meh. I am more impressed with Salty taking a MiLB contract with Detroit. The guy just wants to play ball.

 

Flawed as he has been, I always liked Salty.

 

I always like Salty too. Didn't like his defense, but I liked his attitude and his work ethic.

 

He's the type of player that I'm happy to have on the team.

[Kimmi]

I think our catchers do a lot of things not measured by stats or new metrics.

 

I do not view our catching tandem as a weakness, despite the lower than average offense.

 

To me, our biggest weakness is 1B, and that's why I hated the Moreland signing.Fangraphs positional projected rankings:

 

 

I don't see our catching as a weakness either. Nor do I see 1B as a weakness.

 

Pitching depth could be a weakness. We'll have to wait and see.

 

As of now, I think our infield defense is our greatest weakness.

[Kimmi]

If there is a poster who loves Devers more than me, I haven't met them yet.

 

Devers will need to improve his defense. I think he will, given the time, but he is currently making far too many errors.

[harmony]

Meh. I am more impressed with Salty taking a MiLB contract with Detroit. The guy just wants to play ball.

 

Flawed as he has been, I always liked Salty.

It should be interesting to see how Blake Swihart's career compares with that of Jarrod Saltalamacchia, another switch-hitting catcher who once was a top-ranked prospect.

[Natick to NC]

Our catching offense is terrible .I would rank it up there with our 1b offense and our DH offense from last year ....we upgraded at DH right ???? We went flat line at first base right ??? I just for once want Sandy out on his ass for a marginal upgrade not including Swihart who I love . For the love of God get an offensive catcher and first baseman ....I am lighting candles for Hanley but my goodness Mitch is one step ahead of Jason Veritek in how he looks swinging a bat ??? That crap has to change Mitchy two bags or not that cat looks like he swings thors freaking hammer sometimes and for Mitch he ain't Thor .

[moonslav59]

Let's say Pom starts on the DL with Wright and ERod, here's what we might see...

 

3/29 @TB Sale

3/30 @TB Price

3/31 @TB Porcello

4/1 @TB Johnson

4/2 @MIA Velazquez

4/3 @MIA Sale

off

4/5 TB Price +1

off

4/7 TB Porcello +2

4/8 TB Sale

off

4/10 NYY Price

4/11 NYY Pomeranz

4/12 NYY Porcello

4/13 Bal Sale

4/14 Bal Johnson or Wright?

 

In our first 13 games, I see Johnson and Velazquez starting one game each. If Wright is not better by the 14th, Johnson (or Velazquez-not both) might get 2 or 3 starts.

 

[Natick to NC]

And I'm truly not trying to be a prick...love this team and we are good just not good enough ...we cannot and I repeat can freaking not give away Aton of one run games anylonger ...we will lose early in the playoffs once again ....we have to get home field ....it's an absolute must for this team ....I would argue that we would have won a World Series in one of the last couple years if we had home field ...no slight to Houston or Chicago but we are better and we must capitalize when ever we can with what ever upgrade we can because we may win it all or get beat the hell down early and humiliatingly ....raise you're hand if you think Sale ,Price ,Porcello has any better chance on the road this year than last ? Put it down you're wrong . Edited March 12, 2018 by Natick to NC

[Emp9]

Erod's injuries have almost always been the knee. Hopefully, the surgery will fix the reoccurring issue once and for all.

 

Yes, with Elias in the pen, it looks like Johnson and Velazquez will have to fill the 5 slot until Wright returns. If both do poorly, we'll get 5-7 starts from them. That should be enough time for Wright to return. Then, he gets 3-4 starts (at least and hopefully) to bridge us to ERod's return.

 

I realize this is a tight set-up, and I've said I'm fine with signing vet depth at no added cost, but cutting into our $4M remaining spending budget right now, would be too dangerous.

 

How much of that $4M are you willing to spend right now to add a 6th or 7th starter?

 

Rather get a loogy if he’d be on the cheap. Then wait until later in the season for another SP if need be.

[Spudboy]

Well you, sir, have a lot of common sense. I couldn't agree more with what you said.

 

I know Dombrowski is aware of who is still available. I'm a little surprised he hasn't signed any starters to a minor league deal yet. I hope you're right about him adding someone soon.

 

He signed a reliever to a minor league deal today. The name escapes me at the moment.

 

Maybe DD is waiting to see who becomes available coming out of spring training?

[Spudboy]

I don't see our catching as a weakness either. Nor do I see 1B as a weakness.

 

Pitching depth could be a weakness. We'll have to wait and see.

 

As of now, I think our infield defense is our greatest weakness.

 

I agree on all points.

 

With regards to our catching, don't fix what ain't broke.

 

I think we can all agree that DD is likely to add some cheap MiLB rotation depth.

 

One word to describe our likely season starting infield defense.

 

Oye.

[Kimmi]

Our catching offense is terrible .I would rank it up there with our 1b offense and our DH offense from last year ....we upgraded at DH right ???? We went flat line at first base right ??? I just for once want Sandy out on his ass for a marginal upgrade not including Swihart who I love . For the love of God get an offensive catcher and first baseman ....I am lighting candles for Hanley but my goodness Mitch is one step ahead of Jason Veritek in how he looks swinging a bat ??? That crap has to change Mitchy two bags or not that cat looks like he swings thors freaking hammer sometimes and for Mitch he ain't Thor .

 

Hanley is going to rake this year.

 

As far as an offensive catcher, no thanks. Not if it is at the expense of the defense. Catching is a defensive first position. Any offense provided by the catchers is gravy. We have enough offense at our other positions.

[Kimmi]

Maybe DD is waiting to see who becomes available coming out of spring training?

 

It's possible.

[Spudboy]

It should be interesting to see how Blake Swihart's career compares with that of Jarrod Saltalamacchia, another switch-hitting catcher who once was a top-ranked prospect.

 

Yeah, it will be interesting.

 

Swihart will need a legit chance to shine or fall on his face.

 

Salty was given lots of chances.

 

Swihart has speed, a clearly superior hitting tool, and overall superior athleticism.

[Spudboy]

Hanley is going to rake this year.

 

As far as an offensive catcher, no thanks. Not if it is at the expense of the defense. Catching is a defensive first position. Any offense provided by the catchers is gravy. We have enough offense at our other positions.

 

Be careful. You are sounding pretty old school here!