2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[Natick to NC]

I'd gp for Lackey or Dickey.

 

700 agree 100 percent about Lackey ...Dickey and Sanchez seem to be cooked to me However ...

[Bellhorn04]

Dickey threw 190 innings with a 4.26 ERA last year. That's pretty damn good for a dumpster dive. I'm surprised he's still out there.

[notin]

Dickey threw 190 innings with a 4.26 ERA last year. That's pretty damn good for a dumpster dive. I'm surprised he's still out there.

 

I'd take Dickey in a hearbeat.

 

But maybe at 43 he wants a guarantee or he retires?

[moonslav59]

I'd take Dickey in a hearbeat.

 

But maybe at 43 he wants a guarantee or he retires?

 

I'd be okay with $1M guarantee with an easy $1M in bonuses, but only if we trade away Holt, so our budget stays the same.

 

I think we need to keep some space for a summer trade.

[Natick to NC]

Yeah Dickie would have to pay us ....no thanks against NY ...Lacky empty the coffers though ....hmm maybe Dickie as long reliever ? Off hand how are Leon and Holt Doing ? Edited March 12, 2018 by Natick to NC

[Jack Flap]

So many people do not have the common sense that Notin and Kimmi have.

 

I'm with you guys. I don't see why it's the least bit controversial to want to have as much pitching depth as you possibly can. Someone referred to it as hoarding, and well...um...yes? You know you're almost always going to need more than 6-7 starting pitchers to get through a season, so why not make sure your ass is covered? Sure, I'd prefer to give those spot starts and fill-in duties to someone in our organization if possible, and maybe Johnson/Velazquez/Elias/Beeks/etc. are up to the task, but what if they're not? Or what if Price's elbow starts acting up again at the same time Pomeranz needs a 15-day DL stint, or Rodriguez has a setback in his recovery, and so on. It just makes sense to stock your shelves ahead of time rather than being left scrambling when you need it.

 

That said, there are a few interesting veteran pitchers still unsigned, and I doubt Dombrowski has just overlooked them. I'd say we sign someone in the fairly near future, if I had to guess.

[notin]

Notln , You neglect to mention a few key points. Mister Fister was not signed during spring training as depth insurance. He was acquired off waivers ( on the cheap ) in late June when the need arose. And while he was a help , the fact is he went 5 - 9 , with a 4.88 ERA. Arguably , the worst year of his career. He then bombed in the ALDS. My point is , that should the need arise , pitchers like Fister can always be acquired without much trouble or expense. Meanwhile, use Pawtucket to audition the arms we already have.

 

That's actually a horrible summary. While the numbers are right, Fister did start slow, which should be expected when you sign a player whose a free agent mid season. Down the stretch he was outstanding. And you absolutely cannot count on pitchers like him being available every year in the middle of the year.

 

It makes sense to grab guys on minor leage deals now (on months ago actually). Why are you so opposed to this zero risk strategy thst 28 major league GMs have been using all off-season? You've never given one good reason why, except you think it can happen at any time. But even then, what's so wrong with being prepared?k

Edited March 12, 2018 by notin

[moonslav59]

I'm with you guys. I don't see why it's the least bit controversial to want to have as much pitching depth as you possibly can. Someone referred to it as hoarding, and well...um...yes? You know you're almost always going to need more than 6-7 starting pitchers to get through a season, so why not make sure your ass is covered? Sure, I'd prefer to give those spot starts and fill-in duties to someone in our organization if possible, and maybe Johnson/Velazquez/Elias/Beeks/etc. are up to the task, but what if they're not? Or what if Price's elbow starts acting up again at the same time Pomeranz needs a 15-day DL stint, or Rodriguez has a setback in his recovery, and so on. It just makes sense to stock your shelves ahead of time rather than being left scrambling when you need it.

 

That said, there are a few interesting veteran pitchers still unsigned, and I doubt Dombrowski has just overlooked them. I'd say we sign someone in the fairly near future, if I had to guess.

 

Minor league- non 40 man roster depth, yes, or perhaps a 40 man roster addition with options remaining, but I doubt we upgrade, right now, with anything significant.

 

Right now, we have 8 guys worth starting or giving a chance...

 

Sale

Pom

Price

Porcello

ERod (DL)

Wright (DL)

Johnson

Velazquez

 

plus another two that might surprise...

 

Elias

Beeks

 

The $4M or so we have remaining on the luxury tax budget before major penalties kick in can be better spent in mis summer on a pro-rated contract of a much better pitcher than we can sign now. I think that's the plan.

 

Give our 8-10 starters a chance first. Try to get by with whht we got until Wright and ERod return, and maybe we won't even need more depth. If we do, we'll know by May or June, and we can look to add a starter in June or July-- a much better one that does not put us over the $40M limit.

 

Even with ERod and Wright out, we still have 6 guys worth starting, at least for 2-3 games for 2 of them. That buys us enough time for one of Wright or ERod to return, and if not, maybe we try Elias or Beeks until one is healthy. It does suck to have to go starter hunting in May, and that is a possibility, butI have some faith in the 8-10 guys we have being able to hold us over until summer (or longer).

 

I'm fine with adding soome minor league vet depth.

Edited March 12, 2018 by moonslav59

[notin]

Johnson will with be in mlb or released. There is no third option. So if he starts, he still needs to be replaced in the pen. Elias is being covered to relIef. Rodriguez is hurt, which is getting to be a little too common. Wright is hurt, and is 33 years old with exactly one good season under his belt.

 

That leaves 29 year old Hector Velasquez as our style source of living depth. Ironically he was officially signed as a minor league free agent, the exact same thing I have been saying the Sox need to do all off-season

[moonslav59]

Johnson will with be in mlb or released. There is no third option. So if he starts, he still needs to be replaced in the pen. Elias is being covered to relIef. Rodriguez is hurt, which is getting to be a little too common. Wright is hurt, and is 33 years old with exactly one good season under his belt.

 

That leaves 29 year old Hector Velasquez as our style source of living depth. Ironically he was officially signed as a minor league free agent, the exact same thing I have been saying the Sox need to do all off-season

 

Erod's injuries have almost always been the knee. Hopefully, the surgery will fix the reoccurring issue once and for all.

 

Yes, with Elias in the pen, it looks like Johnson and Velazquez will have to fill the 5 slot until Wright returns. If both do poorly, we'll get 5-7 starts from them. That should be enough time for Wright to return. Then, he gets 3-4 starts (at least and hopefully) to bridge us to ERod's return.

 

I realize this is a tight set-up, and I've said I'm fine with signing vet depth at no added cost, but cutting into our $4M remaining spending budget right now, would be too dangerous.

 

How much of that $4M are you willing to spend right now to add a 6th or 7th starter?

[notin]

Well a minor league contract doesn't count at all until the player gets added to the 40-man roster.

 

But the contract the Rangers gave Jon Niese is a good model, where he will make between $1mill and $1.45 mill if they need him, which is a small price for an upgrade. And as the Sox have to DFA someone to add him, it cuts into the budget slightly less...

[Natick to NC]

Lucroy for Peanuts too ??? Why didn't we release Sandy and upgrade with him??? I'm just stunned they are still enamored with Leon ... Could have Lucroy ,Vaz ,and Swihart ???? Edited March 12, 2018 by Natick to NC

[mvp 78]

Lucroy for Peanuts too ??? Why didn't we release Sandy and upgrade with him??? I'm just stunned they are still enamored with Leon ... Could have Lucroy ,Vaz ,and Swihart ????

 

Lucroy isn't that good.

[Natick to NC]

Lucroy isn't that good.

 

MVP he's a career 280 hitter who can call a game a hell of a lot better than the guys we have ...I'm not saying the guys the Fisk 2.0 or evern .0000003 he's still an upgrade in my opinion .Sandy is a career 240 hitter and also has no pop ...Even though Lucroy has only 1 real power year 20 plus he's a better hitter .

[Bellhorn04]

Lucroy for Peanuts too ??? Why didn't we release Sandy and upgrade with him??? I'm just stunned they are still enamored with Leon ... Could have Lucroy ,Vaz ,and Swihart ????

 

Sandy must have heard you. He took Happ deep twice today.

[Natick to NC]

Sandy must have heard you. He took Happ deep twice today.

 

Bellhorn the guy sucks .....Christian is a far superior Athelete and Catcher and although Lucroy isn't Christian he's a better player than Sandy and that's not a secret .Sandy will hit his 235 hit 5 to 7 HR and call 1 great game 3 aweful games ...Not a fan and never will be .Lucroy is a career 280s hitter he has shown power in the past ...He would have been one hell of an upgrade over Sandy .I think Blake given a full year though as 2 gives this team 17 to 20 HR and a 265 ave with far superior power numbers ....If we didn't sniff Lucroy I'm praying they demote Sandy ...today his 2 HR better not convince our Rookie manager that this is some power hitter ...Happ sucks .

Edited March 12, 2018 by Natick to NC

[mvp 78]

MVP he's a career 280 hitter who can call a game a hell of a lot better than the guys we have ...I'm not saying the guys the Fisk 2.0 or evern .0000003 he's still an upgrade in my opinion .Sandy is a career 240 hitter and also has no pop ...Even though Lucroy has only 1 real power year 20 plus he's a better hitter .

 

@RedSox

 

Two at-bats, two homers

 

@sandyleon41 launches his second homer of the game and we are tied once more in the fourth, 3-3.

[mvp 78]

Bellhorn the guy sucks .....Christian is a far superior Athelete and Catcher and although Lucroy isn't Christian he's a better player than Sandy and that's not a secret .Sandy will hit his 235 hit 5 to 7 HR and call 1 great game 3 aweful games ...Not a fan and never will be .Lucroy is a career 280s hitter he has shown power in the past ...He would have been one hell of an upgrade over Sandy .I think Blake given a full year though as 2 gives this team 17 to 20 HR and a 265 ave with far superior power numbers ....If we didn't sniff Lucroy I'm praying they demote Sandy ...today his 2 HR better not convince our Rookie manager that this is some power hitter ...Happ sucks .

 

Lucroy was a negative oWAR guy 2 of the last 3 years. Catchers don't last forever.

[mvp 78]

MVP he's a career 280 hitter who can call a game a hell of a lot better than the guys we have ...I'm not saying the guys the Fisk 2.0 or evern .0000003 he's still an upgrade in my opinion .Sandy is a career 240 hitter and also has no pop ...Even though Lucroy has only 1 real power year 20 plus he's a better hitter .

 

Vazquez had a higher dWAR last year.

[mvp 78]

MVP he's a career 280 hitter who can call a game a hell of a lot better than the guys we have ...I'm not saying the guys the Fisk 2.0 or evern .0000003 he's still an upgrade in my opinion .Sandy is a career 240 hitter and also has no pop ...Even though Lucroy has only 1 real power year 20 plus he's a better hitter .

 

Vazquez had a higher dWAR last year. Sandy had the same dWAR as Lucroy.

[Natick to NC]

2016 Lucroy hit 24 bombs with high ave ....he's hit 299and 0ver 300 and is a career 282 hitter he's proven it and has pop ...last year he played in what 44 games ???? Still almost matched ole Sandy....to say Christian or Sandy are even close to his caliber hitter ? That's a joke ....now if we want to talk arms ???? Christian has the cannon and Sandy is accurate a tick behind but still good Lucroy has a good arm but not Christian Level ....calling games and framing pitches and hitting for average and Power ????? Sorry Lucroy is better ....If we landed Lucroy I'd catch him and Vaz evenly throw Blake in for 20 and trade Sandy . Edited March 12, 2018 by Natick to NC

[Bellhorn04]

Sandy will call 1 great game 3 aweful games

 

If that was true, Sandy wouldn't be around any more.

[mvp 78]

2016 Lucroy hit 24 bombs with high ave ....he's hit 299and 0ver 300 and is a career 282 hitter he's proven it and has pop ...last year he played in what 44 games ???? Still almost matched ole Sandy....to say Christian or Sandy are even close to his caliber hitter ? That's a joke ....now if we want to talk arms ???? Christian has the cannon and Sandy is accurate a tick behind but still good Lucroy has a good arm but not Christian Level ....calling games and framing pitches and hitting for average and Power ????? Sorry Lucroy is better ....If we landed Lucroy I'd catch him and Vaz evenly throw Blake in for 20 and trade Sandy .

 

He's only hit 20+ HRs once. He's getting older. He sandwiched that good year with two bad offensive ones.

 

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=1899569

 

LUCROY WAS 110 OUT 110 IN FRAMING PITCHES IN 2017 WITH AN UNSIGHTLY -16.5. HE IS 109 OUT OF 110 IN FIELDING RUNS ABOVE AVERAGE.

 

Vazquez is top 10, Sandy is top 25.

[Natick to NC]

If that was true, Sandy wouldn't be around any more.

 

Sandy is a number 2 catcher on a 500 team he's ok ....but to think Sandy Leon or Christian are on the same Level as Lucroy is nutso and shows me just how retarded some stats are ....go look at Lucroy a year removed from last ....he's a stud ....his swing is God given for Fenway park ...his arm is a freaking bazoooooka the man is a great catcher ...We would have loved this player in Boston and I'm pissed he was had for 6 mill....it's a terrible decision not to upgrade the position .

[Natick to NC]

MVP he wasn't healthy Edited March 12, 2018 by Natick to NC

[Natick to NC]

MVP I don't think he was healthy ...I can't prove that but he made a hard right turn ...He's. Better player than what we have sorry .

[mvp 78]

https://www.theringer.com/2017/5/23/16045944/jonathan-lucroy-texas-rangers-pitch-framing-3bfa2f11ae4a

 

"Maybe Lucroy’s issues are purely mechanical or mental, the product of bad habits or frustration about his slow start at the plate. But it’s probable that age and injuries have taken their toll. Lucroy suffered a fractured finger in 2011; a fractured hand in 2012; hamstring soreness in 2014 and 2015; a fractured toe in early 2015; and a concussion in late 2015. Maybe that accumulated wear and tear has made him less low, less mobile, and less steady behind the plate.

 

The bad news for Lucroy — and, for the rest of this season, the Rangers — is that large changes in framing performance tend to be sticky; it’s rare for a catcher to suffer a significant decline as a receiver and then bounce all the way back. In other words, the elite Lucroy, and even the average Lucroy, may be gone for good. "

 

 

 

The good defensive Lucroy is history pal.

[Natick to NC]

He's only hit 20+ HRs once. He's getting older. He sandwiched that good year with two bad offensive ones.

 

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=1899569

 

LUCROY WAS 110 OUT 110 IN FRAMING PITCHES IN 2017 WITH AN UNSIGHTLY -16.5. HE IS 109 OUT OF 110 IN FIELDING RUNS ABOVE AVERAGE.

 

Vazquez is top 10, Sandy is top 25.

 

Lucroy is a far superior player than both those players ...tell you what we can revisit this in a few short months and compare players ...I'm betting on his career norm ...you can have those two players career norms ...we will see .

[mvp 78]

MVP he wasn't healthy

 

He's gotten worse every year. He's not going to get back to what he once was.

[Spudboy]

Meh. I am more impressed with Salty taking a MiLB contract with Detroit. The guy just wants to play ball.

 

Flawed as he has been, I always liked Salty.