2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[cp176]

Well, yeah, but Seattle has a reputation for having great coffee and ..women's basketball? Really?.

 

 

And you know too that women's bb begins and ends in the east -UCONN lol

[S5Dewey]

And you know too that women's bb begins and ends in the east -UCONN lol

 

Lest I get branded (by some) as being a basketball misogynist I'll point out that I attend about as many girl's/women's basketball games as I do boy's/men's games at the HS and college level. It's just a different game depending on the gender. A different game played by the same rules.

[Bellhorn04]

And this is why JD needs to come to grips with reality.

 

I can see Dombrowski going up to $150 mil if he needs to, but as of now, there is no need to do so.

 

One of the writers suggested that Dombrowski increase his overall offer by $5-$10 mil. It really wouldn't be much of a difference for the Sox, but it might be enough of a moral victory to JD to get him to end the standoff. And he might come to Boston with less 'bitterness'.

 

I'm not sure whether I agree with this or not. On one hand, it would be nice to get him signed and have him with the team for spring training. OTOH, why should Dombrowski bid against himself? Especially if there isn't another offer that's fairly close.

 

What would Theo do in this situation?

 

If you look at the Darvish deal, Theo really put in a lot of bells and whistles - incentive clauses, a 2 year opt-out etc.

 

Maybe Dave needs to do something a little creative, if they really want to sign Martinez.

 

If they can sign him without adding too much more in actual cash it might be worth it just so they know what the 2018 team is.

[Bellhorn04]

An interesting take on Boras's role in this stagnant offseason:

 

https://www.athleticsnation.com/2018/2/9/16997594/mlb-offseason-free-agency-scott-boras-tony-clark-mlbpa

[mvp 78]

Another LoMo post:

 

https://www.overthemonster.com/2018/2/12/17003232/red-sox-logan-morrison-jd-martinez

 

Morrison is coming off a phenomenal season at the plate and if he can repeat that performance he would be the power bat so many want to see in the middle of Boston’s lineup. In 2017, the former Ray, Mariner and Marlin had the best year of his career hitting .246/.353/.516 for a 130 wRC+ with 38 home runs. He’s never going to impress with his batting average, but he has increased his walk rate in each of the last three years and showed a huge power outburst with some improvements to back it up. Specifically, he has become one of the poster boys of the so-called “Flyball Revolution,” as he upped his flyball rate by 11.5 percentage points from 2016 to 2017. That’s all very good, and has people understandably excited...

 

Even with all of that in mind, though, I’m not sure how much sense Morrison would make as an alternative. For one thing, the fit is not ideal on this Red Sox roster. Part of the reason that Martinez is an attractive target is that, while he’ll mostly serve as a designated hitter, he can also become the fourth outfielder... Morrison, meanwhile, would be simply a DH or first baseman. That’s a fine and relatively common profile, but it’s also one that the Red Sox already have... The counterargument would be that they could try to offload Ramirez or simply cut him, but I would definitely not do the latter and I’m not sure they’d realistically be able to do the former.

 

It’s not only the fit that has me worried about Morrison, either. Although he was outstanding in 2017 and there were real tangible changes in his game to lead to that breakout, I’m still not 100 percent sold that he is this kind of hitter now. For one thing, I have no idea how the juiced balls — or whatever you think is behind the sudden home run explosion around the league — affected his numbers. Furthermore, even with the increased flyball rate it seems his home run total involved plenty of luck. His home-run-to-flyball-rate came in at 22.5 percent, ten percentage points higher than his previous career-high. I’m skeptical that’s sustainable in a vacuum, never mind for a pull-oriented left-handed hitter coming to Fenway Park.

 

To me, if it's a short term deal, it's worth a shot if JDM won't sign.

[mvp 78]

An interesting take on Boras's role in this stagnant offseason:

 

https://www.athleticsnation.com/2018/2/9/16997594/mlb-offseason-free-agency-scott-boras-tony-clark-mlbpa

 

I agree with the take that most of the fault is due to the CBA and that Boras should figure out that maybe the money just isn't there right now.

[harmony]

And you know too that women's bb begins and ends in the east -UCONN lol

True enough. I was thinking of professional women's basketball. Perhaps UConn has crowded out interest in women's basketball at the professional level just as the Red Sox have crowded out interest in baseball at the college level. New England (and New York) have not fielded an NCAA Division I baseball champion since Holy Cross in 1952.

 

https://www.ncaa.com/history/baseball/d1

 

When I joined my office in 1996 baseball was discussed in the lunchroom and the office fielded a softball team. Today soccer is the lunchroom talk and the office has a soccer team. This baseball fan is an old relic. Times have changed.

[cp176]

True enough. I was thinking of professional women's basketball. Perhaps UConn has crowded out interest in women's basketball at the professional level just as the Red Sox have crowded out interest in baseball at the college level. New England (and New York) have not fielded an NCAA Division I baseball champion since Holy Cross in 1952.

 

https://www.ncaa.com/history/baseball/d1

 

When I joined my office in 1996 baseball was discussed in the lunchroom and the office fielded a softball team. Today soccer is the lunchroom talk and the office has a soccer team. This baseball fan is an old relic. Times have changed.

 

Times certainly have changed for sure.

I do think that there is more interest in UCONN women's bb than there is women's professional bb.

I'm not sure the Northeast has been all that much of a competitor with warmer climate bb teams at the collegiate level ever. The nature of the beast.

Soccer is a great game but the amount of interest in it might have something to do with geography as well as many recent studies discussing the physical and mental that football can easily cause.

[harmony]

MassLive columnist Christopher Smith asks whether the Yu Darvish contract will impact the J.D. Martinez negotiations:

 

http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2018/02/yu_darvish_signing_cubs_report.html#incart_river_index

[sk7326]

There are just a lot of tough things or Martinez:

 

1. The Red Sox are really the only customer who has the need and the money

2. The market has been squeezing guys like Martinez for a couple of years. The industry is not paying a lot of years for unathletic sluggers.

3. The Red Sox have short term options. They could go with LoMo. They could go Building 19 style (yes I'm that old) and look at Bautista/CarGo. They could simply say that "we scored the 6th most runs in the AL without anybody having a particularly good year" and just count on some turnaround from coaching and life happening.

 

I think eventually Martinez joins Boston, but I have no problem with a hard line being taken here.

[S5Dewey]

New England (and New York) have not fielded an NCAA Division I baseball champion since Holy Cross in 1952.

 

 

Of course there are a couple of reasons for that beyond the Red Sox.

 

It's harder and harder to recruit baseball players to the Northeast when the blue-chip prospects have the opportunity to play at Florida, Texas or Arizona where the weather is better and they can play year-round.

 

Also, some of this is due to the NCAA's adding another layer of playoffs just to get to Omaha. In the past teams had to only win their conference tournament + a regional tournament to get to the CWS. Now they have to also win a "Super Regional" made up of teams who won their regional tournament and also teams who didn't win their regional (mostly from the South and West) but are selected to play by the tournament committee.

 

The deck is stacked against the schools from the North and Northeast from the beginning. That has more to do with the NCAA than with the Red Sox crowding out college baseball in interest.

[mvp 78]

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/mlb/560389/Boras-met-with-D-Backs-owner-on-J.D.-Martinez

 

Of course Boras is now pulling the "go directly to the owner to get the deal done" route.

[sk7326]

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/mlb/560389/Boras-met-with-D-Backs-owner-on-J.D.-Martinez

 

Of course Boras is now pulling the "go directly to the owner to get the deal done" route.

 

Go figger - the current sox GM and his former assistant have made more or less identical offers.

[FredLynn]

And this is why JD needs to come to grips with reality.

 

I can see Dombrowski going up to $150 mil if he needs to, but as of now, there is no need to do so.

 

One of the writers suggested that Dombrowski increase his overall offer by $5-$10 mil. It really wouldn't be much of a difference for the Sox, but it might be enough of a moral victory to JD to get him to end the standoff. And he might come to Boston with less 'bitterness'.

 

I'm not sure whether I agree with this or not. On one hand, it would be nice to get him signed and have him with the team for spring training. OTOH, why should Dombrowski bid against himself? Especially if there isn't another offer that's fairly close.

 

There is no reason whatsoever to pay Martinez a penny more than $125 over five years. Even that is an overpay. JD needs to look in the mirror and decide if he and his family can "survive" with "just" $125M. Right now, he is living in a fantasy land created by Borass. If I am DD I tell Borass that this is the final offer, and it may not be on the table tomorrow. Go ahead and let him pass up that amount of money if that is what he wants to do.

[moonslav59]

Go figger - the current sox GM and his former assistant have made more or less identical offers.

 

That's the first I heard the numbers were similar. It makes more sense for JD to wait it out a bit longer.

 

If I were DD, I would not go higher than $125M/5. That's already an overpay and a year too long.

[mvp 78]

That's the first I heard the numbers were similar. It makes more sense for JD to wait it out a bit longer.

 

If I were DD, I would not go higher than $125M/5. That's already an overpay and a year too long.

 

The info coming out of AZ is all over the place. Some people saying they've offered 5 years and close to what Sox have reportedly offered. Others have said they've only offered a short term deal.

 

Maybe just more Boras smoke screen to scare BOS?

[moonslav59]

The info coming out of AZ is all over the place. Some people saying they've offered 5 years and close to what Sox have reportedly offered. Others have said they've only offered a short term deal.

 

Maybe just more Boras smoke screen to scare BOS?

 

Maybe.

 

Don't budge, DD. Have your plan B ready to happen, if needed.

[mvp 78]

Maybe.

 

Don't budge, DD. Have your plan B ready to happen, if needed.

 

If a plan B isn't signed, I believe it's because Desperate Dave didn't think the other guys were an improvement over Hanley.

[Spudboy]

Of course there are a couple of reasons for that beyond the Red Sox.

 

It's harder and harder to recruit baseball players to the Northeast when the blue-chip prospects have the opportunity to play at Florida, Texas or Arizona where the weather is better and they can play year-round.

 

Also, some of this is due to the NCAA's adding another layer of playoffs just to get to Omaha. In the past teams had to only win their conference tournament + a regional tournament to get to the CWS. Now they have to also win a "Super Regional" made up of teams who won their regional tournament and also teams who didn't win their regional (mostly from the South and West) but are selected to play by the tournament committee.

 

The deck is stacked against the schools from the North and Northeast from the beginning. That has more to do with the NCAA than with the Red Sox crowding out college baseball in interest.

 

I would add that Boston is a Major League City.

 

The Bruins, Celtics, Red Sox, and recently the Patriots have all enjoyed significant fan support and interest.

 

I know one family that attends Revolution games at Gillette. While soccer is played at the school level and has been since the '60s, it is just not the draw of the big four sports.

 

I don't know a single person that watches WNBA games. In fact, I know many who turn the channel when a WNBA game is on tv.

 

Boston and the surrounding area has nationally competitive collegiate hockey teams that are somewhat popular but that is about it.

 

Boston College has a big time football program but does not enjoy the success or obsessive fandom of "The Majors".

 

College baseball is not really on the map.

 

 

Boston is a pro sports city. It's obvious.

[FredLynn]

I would add that Boston is a Major League City.

 

The Bruins, Celtics, Red Sox, and recently the Patriots have all enjoyed significant fan support and interest.

 

I know one family that attends Revolution games at Gillette. While soccer is played at the school level and has been since the '60s, it is just not the draw of the big four sports.

 

I don't know a single person that watches WNBA games. In fact, I know many who turn the channel when a WNBA game is on tv.

 

Boston and the surrounding area has nationally competitive collegiate hockey teams that are somewhat popular but that is about it.

 

Boston College has a big time football program but does not enjoy the success or obsessive fandom of "The Majors".

 

College baseball is not really on the map.

 

 

Boston is a pro sports city. It's obvious.

 

Contrast that with Seattle.....while Seattle is a very pretty city it really has little to offer the ardent sports fan. I am surprised Harmony can take living there

[harmony]

Of course there are a couple of reasons for that beyond the Red Sox.

 

It's harder and harder to recruit baseball players to the Northeast when the blue-chip prospects have the opportunity to play at Florida, Texas or Arizona where the weather is better and they can play year-round.

 

Also, some of this is due to the NCAA's adding another layer of playoffs just to get to Omaha. In the past teams had to only win their conference tournament + a regional tournament to get to the CWS. Now they have to also win a "Super Regional" made up of teams who won their regional tournament and also teams who didn't win their regional (mostly from the South and West) but are selected to play by the tournament committee.

 

The deck is stacked against the schools from the North and Northeast from the beginning. That has more to do with the NCAA than with the Red Sox crowding out college baseball in interest.

Oregon State is a college baseball powerhouse with two national titles despite its outdoor stadium in a climate that is not conducive to baseball in the spring.

 

Nevertheless, on Sunday in Oregon I enjoyed four innings of NCAA Division III baseball as the Pacific University Boxers hosted the Lewis & Clark College Pioneers in the Northwest Conference Preseason Tournament.

 

Edited February 12, 2018 by harmony

[harmony]

Contrast that with Seattle.....while Seattle is a very pretty city it really has little to offer the ardent sports fan. I am surprised Harmony can take living there

Fortunately my life lacks a success void yearning to be filled by the on-field successes of my favorite sports teams.

 

I despise generalizations, but bear with me. Red Sox fans tend to be visceral while Mariner fans tend to be cerebral. The Sox attract bandwagon fans in search of immediate gratification The Mariners attract aspiring problem-solvers because each year the franchise offers up a wealth of problems.

 

At least that's my take.

 

For what it's worth, I live in Portland, not Seattle. Here is a piece of Portland trivia for you Boston fans:

The two founders of Portland, Francis Pettygrove from Portland, Maine, and Asa Lovejoy from Boston, Massachusetts, both wanted to name the fledgling site—then known as The Clearing—after their respective home towns. The coin toss was decided in 1845 with two out of three tosses which Pettygrove won.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland_Penny

[sk7326]

Contrast that with Seattle.....while Seattle is a very pretty city it really has little to offer the ardent sports fan. I am surprised Harmony can take living there

 

College is a little more prevalent and the Seahawks have done nicely. Plus (this is true of the West Coast more generally) - you get to be outside more. Nice thing is being able to watch East Coast games and still have time to g out.

[harmony]

College is a little more prevalent and the Seahawks have done nicely. Plus (this is true of the West Coast more generally) - you get to be outside more. Nice thing is being able to watch East Coast games and still have time to g out.

The Seattle Sounders have advanced to the Major League Soccer Cup the last two seasons, winning in 2017, the year after the Portland Timbers won the MLS Cup.

 

The Sounders averaged 43,666 fans per game last year while the (relatively) nearby Vancouver Whitecaps and Portland Timbers average over 21,000 apiece. The New England Revolution averaged 19,367 fans a game.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer_attendance

 

I am a baseball fan who keeps promising to attend soccer matches. When my wife was out of town last fall I wandered down to a Portland Timbers game and paid a scalper $20 for a ticket that turned out to be void. I've dealt with scalpers my entire life and that's the first time I have been burned. I shrugged my shoulders and wandered home.

[mvp 78]

The Seattle Sounders have advanced to the Major League Soccer Cup the last two seasons, winning in 2017, the year after the Portland Timbers won the MLS Cup.

 

The Sounders averaged 43,666 fans per game last year while the (relatively) nearby Vancouver Whitecaps and Portland Timbers average over 21,000 apiece. The New England Revolution averaged 19,367 fans a game.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer_attendance

 

I am a baseball fan who keeps promising to attend soccer matches. When my wife was out of town last fall I wandered down to a Portland Timbers game and paid a scalper $20 for a ticket that turned out to be void. I've dealt with scalpers my entire life and that's the first time I have been burned. I shrugged my shoulders and wandered home.

 

https://espnmediazone.com/us/press-releases/2017/12/espns-2017-mls-cup-viewership-20-percent/

 

I believe that Seattle isn't representative of the rest of the country when it comes to MLS.

 

Seattle Leads All Local Markets for MLS Cup and MLS Playoffs on ESPN

 

Seattle was the top local market for both MLS Cup (7.0 rating) and the entire MLS playoffs on ESPN (2.3 rating).

 

ESPN’s Top 10 MLS Playoff markets: Seattle (2.3), Columbus, Ohio (1.6), Atlanta (0.8), Louisville (0.6), Dayton (0.5), Portland, Ore. (0.5), Norfolk-Portsmouth-Newport News (0.5), Cincinnati (0.4), Nashville (0.4) and Knoxville (0.4).

 

Top 10 MLS Cup markets: Seattle (7.0), Louisville (3.2), Columbus, Ohio (1.7), Norfolk-Portsmouth-Newport News (1.1), Raleigh-Durham (1.1), Atlanta (1.0), Indianapolis (1.0), Portland, Ore. (1.0), Austin (0.9), Birmingham (0.9), Memphis (0.9) and Philadelphia (0.9). ***Toronto is not one of the 56 U.S. metered markets.

 

Seattle’s 7.0 rating ranks as the second-highest local market rating for MLS Cup on ESPN networks since 2006. The top-five: Portland – 2015 (7.3), Seattle-Tacoma – 2017 (7.0), Salt Lake City – 2009 (5.8), Columbus, OH. – 2008 (5.8) and Kansas City – 2013 (5.3).

 

Also, people generally just don't give a s*** about MLS. http://worldsoccertalk.com/2017/12/12/man-utd-man-city-viewership-beats-mls-cup-final-18-espn-univision/

[moonslav59]

If a plan B isn't signed, I believe it's because Desperate Dave didn't think the other guys were an improvement over Hanley.

 

I wish we'd just have signed LoMo, instead of Moreland. Then, we could be looking at Cobb and Nunez or Lynn and Duda.

[harmony]

https://espnmediazone.com/us/press-releases/2017/12/espns-2017-mls-cup-viewership-20-percent/

 

I believe that Seattle isn't representative of the rest of the country when it comes to MLS.

 

Also, people generally just don't give a s*** about MLS. http://worldsoccertalk.com/2017/12/12/man-utd-man-city-viewership-beats-mls-cup-final-18-espn-univision/

Not unlike the international television ratings for the World Series.

[moonslav59]

I still don't think people envy Seattle over their soccer viewership ratings or high level of women's basketball interest.

[cp176]

Is the west coast representative of the rest of the country in anyway?

[cp176]

Oregon State is a college baseball powerhouse with two national titles despite its outdoor stadium in a climate that is not conducive to baseball in the spring.

 

Nevertheless, on Sunday in Oregon I enjoyed four innings of NCAA Division III baseball as the Pacific University Boxers hosted the Lewis & Clark College Pioneers in the Northwest Conference Preseason Tournament.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]583[/ATTACH]

 

I call ******** here - you live in a rain forest lol