2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[fxkatt]

I heard an ESPN discussion offer the possibility of the Yankees making a one or two year offer to Martinez for say 28 or 48 million. This would break the impasse, and it wd replace their interest in the more expensive Machado for next season. If it failed, it would minimally raise the price for the Sox. Talk about gluttony. They might as well field an all-star team.

[Natick to NC]

Both of you folks are on the money ...what we dont need in Boston is a grown man acting like a tool because his idiot agent mind screwed him into over inflating his true value by 85 million .The Redsox are 1 of the Crown Jewels of baseball ...if this clown wants to wear the ugliest uniform on the planet with a snake as a mascot by all means get the hell to steppin asshat .But if he wants to put up video game numbers play in the greatest ball parks on the planet. In front of the greatest fans on the planet? This is a no freaking brainier ....who the hell is 10 years old and dreams of being a diamondback ????? Come on .I think old JD may be a coward .cant handle the show ? Maybe we are dodging a bullett with diamondback boy . Edited February 9, 2018 by Natick to NC

[notin]

I heard an ESPN discussion offer the possibility of the Yankees making a one or two year offer to Martinez for say 28 or 48 million. This would break the impasse, and it wd replace their interest in the more expensive Machado for next season. If it failed, it would minimally raise the price for the Sox. Talk about gluttony. They might as well field an all-star team.

 

If the Yankees are going to hand out a short term deal like that, I would think Darvish or Arrieta would make more sense as recipients...

[Natick to NC]

I heard an ESPN discussion offer the possibility of the Yankees making a one or two year offer to Martinez for say 28 or 48 million. This would break the impasse, and it wd replace their interest in the more expensive Machado for next season. If it failed, it would minimally raise the price for the Sox. Talk about gluttony. They might as well field an all-star team.

I just could give a shi& about JD now ....actually starting to hate him and his POS agent .I keep saying please go get Arieta and Edwin we are not far off .

[harmony]

Both of you folks are on the money ...what we dont need in Boston is a grown man acting like a tool because his idiot agent mind screwed him into over inflating his true value by 85 million .The Redsox are 1 of the Crown Jewels of baseball ...if this clown wants to wear the ugliest uniform on the planet with a snake as a mascot by all means get the hell to steppin asshat .But if he wants to put up video game numbers play in the greatest ball parks on the planet. In front of the greatest fans on the planet? This is a no freaking brainier ....who the hell is 10 years old and dreams of being a diamondback ????? Come on .I think old JD may be a coward .cant handle the show ? Maybe we are dodging a bullett with diamondback boy .

Wow.

 

Someone's feelings are hurt. Kinda like the teenager with a crush on the high school sweetheart who won't return his affections.

 

All I see is a free agent taking his time choosing his next employer.

[Natick to NC]

Wow.

 

Someone's feelings are hurt. Kinda like the teenager with a crush on the high school sweetheart who won't return his affections.

 

All I see is a free agent taking his time choosing his next employer.

 

That's fair Harmony ...ill remember that ...but it's fair .Taking his time .... Yeah that was relevant about a month back .

[fxkatt]

If the Yankees are going to hand out a short term deal like that, I would think Darvish or Arrieta would make more sense as recipients...

 

I would think so too. If they trade Gardner (11 mill and a glut of outfielders) they would have room under the luxury to sign Martinez and a pitcher, although one demanding less than Darvish and Arrieta.

[Bellhorn04]

I heard an ESPN discussion offer the possibility of the Yankees making a one or two year offer to Martinez for say 28 or 48 million. This would break the impasse, and it wd replace their interest in the more expensive Machado for next season. If it failed, it would minimally raise the price for the Sox. Talk about gluttony. They might as well field an all-star team.

 

If George Steinbrenner was still alive that's probably exactly what would happen. In the great Yankee tradition, George loved to stick it to the Red Sox whenever possible and take players that had been with the Sox or almost with the Sox like A-Rod.

[Natick to NC]

If this market is a permanent correction for players that are 1 dimension and over 30 what are some realistic deals for said players .JD is the top FA this year he's 1 dimensional player at the height of his career ...is a 3 year with an option with insane AAV of say 29 mill out of the question now ? Hell is 30 million actually the AAV rate now on these short window deals ? Dave could be creative and do a 30 times 3 and 4th year option of 22 ?

[mvp 78]

Why offer 3/87 when you’ve already offered 5/110 (22 AAV)? Why increase the AAV by 7 just to reduce the years by 2? They’d only be paying 88 over the first 4 years of the deal to begin with.

[Natick to NC]

Why offer 3/87 when you’ve already offered 5/110 (22 AAV)? Why increase the AAV by 7 just to reduce the years by 2? They’d only be paying 88 over the first 4 years of the deal to begin with.

 

It's a good question ...I'm trying to find a happy place for years ,production and player comfort level ? I'm trying to look at just how weird it may go into the near future .I feel comfortable with this type of deal .No more long term deals ...high AAV .let someone else pay for his decline .

Edited February 10, 2018 by Natick to NC

[moonslav59]

It's a good question ...I'm trying to find a happy place for years ,production and player comfort level ? I'm trying to look at just how weird it may go into the near future .I feel comfortable with this type of deal .No more long term deals ...high AAV .let someone else pay for his decline .

 

So, you think JD will be worth $29M in year 3 but not $11.5M year 4 and 5?

[Natick to NC]

So, you think JD will be worth $29M in year 3 but not $11.5M year 4 and 5?

 

Can I be frank with you ....hell No I don't .I don't think we get a player who stays healthy period in JD .I wouldn't personally go over 3 years for JD honestly .The only player I give more years to this off season is Hosmer ...the man is consistent and stays healthy he's younger and a better player than JD .Hosmer I'd go 7 at 22 AAV and wouldn't worry about 1b for alooooooong time ...he would give us 28 to 35 HR over 90 RBI and a 275 plus average .Hosmer to me is the get.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Natick to NC

[notin]

Can I be frank with you ....hell No I don't .I don't think we get a player who stays healthy period in JD .I wouldn't personally go over 3 years for JD honestly .The only player I give more years to this off season is Hosmer ...the man is consistent and stays healthy he's younger and a better player than JD .Hosmer I'd go 7 at 22 AAV and wouldn't worry about 1b for alooooooong time ...he would give us 28 to 35 HR over 90 RBI and a 275 plus average .Hosmer to me is the get.

 

In 7 seasons, Eric Hosmer has never hit 28Hrs one time. He's not going to start doing it consistently and as a minimum.

 

Unless he learns how to stop hitting ground balls so much.

 

The real problem with Hosmer is he is an above average first baseman who wants to be paid like an elite first baseman. He's a bad idea...

[Natick to NC]

In 7 seasons, Eric Hosmer has never hit 28Hrs one time. He's not going to start doing it consistently and as a minimum.

 

Unless he learns how to stop hitting ground balls so much.

 

The real problem with Hosmer is he is an above average first baseman who wants to be paid like an elite first baseman. He's a bad idea...

 

Go look at his numbers again and that's in KC ...Eric Hismer at Fenway rakes here for 7 years .Now if he goes to SD ????? Lol that dude is wasted resources ....Fenway park is ideal for this player who hits to All fields has won a World Series and is a fantastic team player .I want Hosmer on this team badly but it's not happening .

[Natick to NC]

In 7 seasons, Eric Hosmer has never hit 28Hrs one time. He's not going to start doing it consistently and as a minimum.

 

Unless he learns how to stop hitting ground balls so much.

 

The real problem with Hosmer is he is an above average first baseman who wants to be paid like an elite first baseman. He's a bad idea...

 

at Fenway the man is elite for along time ....I want him at Fenway raking to all fields learning to hit to this park ..I see a great player not an average joe playing in Boston .This park means something ...it's dimension mean something but not to 1 dimensional players who can't go the other way who can't drive in the guy from second with the LCS on the line ....it's not for everyone ....Hosmer begggggged his agent to come here his wife freaking loves Boston ...This man wants the pressure seeeeks it ....he understands what our fan base demands and would thrive off it .Good freaking luck finding that .Eric wants to go back to KC as much as I want to total my brand new Truck ...Mitch was a terrible sign.Good ole Mitchs 2 bags right ? Hosmer would absolutely Rake here .

Edited February 10, 2018 by Natick to NC
Double

[MADSTORK]

 

Snagging Morrison or Duda on a 1-2 year deal (and keeping our powder dry for next winter) is looking better all the time.

 

 

 

Yes it is!

 

This has Ramirez written all over it. Another high priced Vet wrong side of 30, limited to a DH role. Priceless! I will say if Boston did not have the Sandoval Ramirez Porcello deals then Yes, by all means take a gamble on Martinez. If the Rosenthal piece is true? Your off to a bad start.

 

Ill say it again, Go after a SP for far less coin, use ERod and any other over-valued piece as trade chips to strengthen the bench and or the DH position..

 

Ride out 18 and save the "loot" for 19 FA Bonanza!

[Bellhorn04]

Yes it is!

 

This has Ramirez written all over it. Another high priced Vet wrong side of 30, limited to a DH role. Priceless! I will say if Boston did not have the Sandoval Ramirez Porcello deals then Yes, by all means take a gamble on Martinez. If the Rosenthal piece is true? Your off to a bad start.

 

Ill say it again, Go after a SP for far less coin, use ERod and any other over-valued piece as trade chips to strengthen the bench and or the DH position..

 

Ride out 18 and save the "loot" for 19 FA Bonanza!

 

a) Go after which SP?

Save our loot for exactly who in 19?

[Natick to NC]

Yes it is!

 

This has Ramirez written all over it. Another high priced Vet wrong side of 30, limited to a DH role. Priceless! I will say if Boston did not have the Sandoval Ramirez Porcello deals then Yes, by all means take a gamble on Martinez. If the Rosenthal piece is true? Your off to a bad start.

 

Ill say it again, Go after a SP for far less coin, use ERod and any other over-valued piece as trade chips to strengthen the bench and or the DH position..

 

Ride out 18 and save the "loot" for 19 FA Bonanza!

 

...can you take over for Dave this offseason please ? this is exactly what has happened and they need to keep there powder dry on this 1 dimensional player .

[Natick to NC]

a) Go after which SP?

Save our loot for exactly who in 19?

 

Ok I'll bite .Arietta and go get Machado next year.I would sit Mitchy two bags on the far left side of the bench though this year and get Hosmer for the next 7 years myself instead of LOmo on a pillow contract .

Edited February 10, 2018 by Natick to NC

[Bellhorn04]

Ok I'll bite .Arietta and go get Machado next year.I would sit Mitchy two bags on the far left side of the bench though this year and get Hosmer for the next 7 years myself instead of LOmo on a pillow contract .

 

Arrieta is likely looking for around the same as what we've offered JDM. No loot saved there.

[notin]

Arrieta is likely looking for around the same as what we've offered JDM. No loot saved there.

 

Plus Arrieta carries QO penalties, unlike Martinez. ..

[FredLynn]

Wow.

 

Someone's feelings are hurt. Kinda like the teenager with a crush on the high school sweetheart who won't return his affections.

 

All I see is a free agent taking his time choosing his next employer.

 

You don't see any greed at all? You cannot see a player and his agent grossly overestimating his worth?

Those are the REASONS he is taking his time....he and Borass thinks he is worth far more than any GM in the league thinks he is worth. I don't mind a guy going after a fair salary and sticking to his guns IF he can justify his demands on some sort of rational basis. This is pure unadulterated delusional greed.

Thats what I see.

[moonslav59]

Can I be frank with you ....hell No I don't .I don't think we get a player who stays healthy period in JD .I wouldn't personally go over 3 years for JD honestly .The only player I give more years to this off season is Hosmer ...the man is consistent and stays healthy he's younger and a better player than JD .Hosmer I'd go 7 at 22 AAV and wouldn't worry about 1b for alooooooong time ...he would give us 28 to 35 HR over 90 RBI and a 275 plus average .Hosmer to me is the get.

 

The five year $110M/5 deal is better than $87M/3.

 

Hosmer is maybe MLB's most inconsistent player. You never know which Hosmer you will get. I can't, for the life of me, figure our why so many fans (and at least a couple GMs) are enamored with him.

 

1) We need power, and he is one of MLB's lowest power-hitting 1Bman.

2) 1B is traditionally a position of power.

3) His defense has gone from okay to horrible.

4) He flip-flops more than a politician.

Odd years: .799, .801, .822, .882

Even years: .663, .716, .761, 2018???

5) Even his "odd years" are ho-hum, except for 2017.

 

JUST SAY NO TO THE HOZE!

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

You don't see any greed at all? You cannot see a player and his agent grossly overestimating his worth?

Those are the REASONS he is taking his time....he and Borass thinks he is worth far more than any GM in the league thinks he is worth. I don't mind a guy going after a fair salary and sticking to his guns IF he can justify his demands on some sort of rational basis. This is pure unadulterated delusional greed.

Thats what I see.

 

I'm not convinced that J D Martinez is any greedier than any other big ticket free agent. The 7/210 numbers from Boras were ridiculous, but the MLBTR prediction was 6/150, and MLBTR has a solid track record with their predictions. Martinez, like many free agents this offseason, has been taken by surprise by how conservative MLB teams have suddenly become.

 

If this was a 'normal' offseason like we've come to expect, Martinez probably would have been signed by the Sox for around 6/150 a long time ago, had the introductory press conference with big smiles all around, and would be with the team in camp.

[moonslav59]

You don't see any greed at all? You cannot see a player and his agent grossly overestimating his worth?

Those are the REASONS he is taking his time....he and Borass thinks he is worth far more than any GM in the league thinks he is worth. I don't mind a guy going after a fair salary and sticking to his guns IF he can justify his demands on some sort of rational basis. This is pure unadulterated delusional greed.

Thats what I see.

 

Thinking you are worth more than you are is not greed.

 

Focusing your efforts on obtaining more and more, at the expense of other important non material things and moral and ethical issues, is "greed" (to me).

 

Boras often inflated his client's value and settles for less or much less. The JD case seems more extreme than any other I can remember, and maybe that initial number thrown out there got JD having stars (dollar signs) in his eyes, but I don't see how JD has shown he's any more greedy than just about every other professional sports player.

 

(Webster: a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (such as money) than is needed motivated by naked ambition and greed)

 

All good players desire "more than they need", so in that sense JD is "greedy", but I don't see him as being any different than other highly paid sports players. He just stumbled into a market correction season and a unique set of circumstances whereby several top spending teams are looking to reset their budgets.

 

[FredLynn]

I'm not convinced that J D Martinez is any greedier than any other big ticket free agent. The 7/210 numbers from Boras were ridiculous, but the MLBTR prediction was 6/150, and MLBTR has a solid track record with their predictions. Martinez, like many free agents this offseason, has been taken by surprise by how conservative MLB teams have suddenly become.

 

If this was a 'normal' offseason like we've come to expect, Martinez probably would have been signed by the Sox for around 6/150 a long time ago, had the introductory press conference with big smiles all around, and would be with the team in camp.

 

Maybe not, but he is OUR greedy candidate. I think MLBTR has predicted inflated numbers reflecting the pervasive overvaluation that some players have. Sure, some guys do end up getting overpaid. Seems that is about to be brought to a grinding halt. I am all for putting an end to it.

[moonslav59]

I'm not convinced that J D Martinez is any greedier than any other big ticket free agent. The 7/210 numbers from Boras were ridiculous, but the MLBTR prediction was 6/150, and MLBTR has a solid track record with their predictions. Martinez, like many free agents this offseason, has been taken by surprise by how conservative MLB teams have suddenly become.

 

If this was a 'normal' offseason like we've come to expect, Martinez probably would have been signed by the Sox for around 6/150 a long time ago, had the introductory press conference with big smiles all around, and would be with the team in camp.

 

Exactly. $150M/5 was the expected number, and in that light the $210M/7 salvo was not that extreme for Boras.

 

Everyone is scratching their heads over the slow market. The players that have signed already have made about what was projected. I can't blame a player for thinking $110M/5 is significantly less than what was projected and thinking maybe that number can be improved upon, despite there (seemingly) being no counter bidding going on right now.

[notin]

Exactly. $150M/5 was the expected number, and in that light the $210M/7 salvo was not that extreme for Boras.

 

Everyone is scratching their heads over the slow market. The players that have signed already have made about what was projected. I can't blame a player for thinking $110M/5 is significantly less than what was projected and thinking maybe that number can be improved upon, despite there (seemingly) being no counter bidding going on right now.

 

It appears to be a self-propagating stalemate

 

The big ticket guys are not signing until they get better offers, but those offers won't get better until the other options are reduced by more second tier players signing.

 

But the second tier guys are not signing as they are waiting out better offers from the teams that lose out on the bigger names.

 

At some point, one or two big ticket names will sign to be ready for camp, and there may be some fallout. But I really doubt everyone signs in time...

[MADSTORK]

a) Go after which SP?

Save our loot for exactly who in 19?

 

Cobb in 18! U need a Quality RH Starter in this Rotation vs the yanks and Murderers row

2019? Trade target this season, Blackmon. A legit Defensive CF with Power. If I was DD I would be dangling Bradley and or? If Blackmon becomes available. Grant it the Colorado effect but the home run numbers home away have been almost equal over last 3 yrs.

Kershaw Harper and the list of dirt dog type players is long and distinguished in 19

 

 

Epstein said it best, I quote: "The pressure to win in Boston is immense" End quote. Yanks got the best Player on either Market in Stanton. Counter move is not JD "DH" Martinez. Its buying up the second tier dirt dog players who can win you games by trade or FAgency and upgrading your Rotation and Pen. Maybe u go after a legit Star who becomes available at the deadline to put you over the top?

 

Right now DD has done neither and throwing big smoke at a DH is just what Epstein said, a panic type move because of the pressure.

 

No LH Reliever and 2 RH Relievers returning from injury plus u still have Kelly Hembree and Barnes who should have been traded or released..

Edited February 10, 2018 by MADSTORK