2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[Bellhorn04]

Because maintaining two homes is more complicated -- and more expensive -- than maintaining one home.

 

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/mlb/diamondbacks/2017/07/27/arizona-diamondbacks-j-d-martinez-adjusting-life-valley/515150001/

 

Are you saying that if Martinez played for Arizona he would live there year-round?

[moonslav59]

The only thing Martinez appreciates is a full bank account.

 

Most people value getting as much money as possible, including Henry and DD.

[harmony]

So why stay with AZ then if he's from FL and still resides there in the offseason?

 

Also, maintaining two homes is pretty easy if you have $100M.

The Diamondbacks are in Phoenix for Spring Training and the regular season while his former clubs -- the Houston Astros and Detroit Tigers -- had Spring Training in Florida. I would not blame Martinez for not living in Detroit in the offseason.

[harmony]

Are you saying that if Martinez played for Arizona he would live there year-round?

I don't know where J.D. Martinez would live but many MLB players live in Arizona during the offseason.

[mvp 78]

I don't know where J.D. Martinez would live but many MLB players live in Arizona during the offseason.

 

Many also live in TX, FL (where he's from), CA, etc.

[Natick to NC]

Well, I hope the people who were defending Scott Boras can now see the kind of trouble the man causes.

 

Yes this ! Scott had his time in the late 90s through around 3 years ago ...or there about .The man has now become a clown show to work with and his unrealistic view now of what a one dimensional player is worth is beyond laughable .I wouldn't want Machado ,the idiot in DC for 300 million on a 10 year deal hellllllll no anything can happen in a decade and honestly only Trout should be broaching that 300 mark in this sport ....other than him I'd trot out the paw sox at that point and tell Scott to pound sand .oh and for Stanton and Judge this year ...it's time to brush these pricks back no matter how much HGH is running through them ....Pedro backed guys down who popped a tent in the box ...don't tell me it's a different time ...it's baseball go up And in or lose the division ...or lose again in first round .

Edited February 8, 2018 by Natick to NC

[harmony]

Yes this ! Scott had his time in the late 90s through around 3 years ago ...or there about .The man has now become a clown show to work with and his unrealistic view now of what a one dimensional player is worth is beyond laughable .I wouldn't want Machado ,the idiot in DC for 300 million on a 10 year deal hellllllll no anything can happen in a decade and honestly only Trout should be broaching that 300 mark in this sport ....other than him I'd trot out the paw sox at that point and tell Scott to pound sand .oh and for Stanton and Judge this year ...it's time to brush these pricks back no matter how much HGH is running through them ....Pedro backed guys down who popped a tent in the box ...don't tell me it's a different time ...it's baseball go up And in or lose the division ...

It's not as if J.D. Martinez is the only free agent holding out for a better contract. It would be unfair to lay the blame exclusively at the feet of Scott Boras. The system may be broken and all stakeholders bear some responsibility.

 

Each free agent is free to end negotiations and sign a contract at any time. That time has not arrived for most free agents.

[mvp 78]

It's not as if J.D. Martinez is the only free agent holding out for a better contract. It would be unfair to lay the blame exclusively at the feet of Scott Boras. The system may be broken and all stakeholders bear some responsibility.

 

Each free agent is free to end negotiations and sign a contract at any time. That time has not arrived for most free agents.

 

A good portion of the top tier of FA's are Boras clients, but I agree that exclusively blaming Boras is silly.

[moonslav59]

It's not as if J.D. Martinez is the only free agent holding out for a better contract. It would be unfair to lay the blame exclusively at the feet of Scott Boras. The system may be broken and all stakeholders bear some responsibility.

 

Each free agent is free to end negotiations and sign a contract at any time. That time has not arrived for most free agents.

 

Yes, the situation with Moustakas and LoMo seem more troubling.

 

Not a whisper.

[Bellhorn04]

It's just a bad situation all around.

 

A lot of the unsigned players are going to have their own training camp. (Boras clients will not attend.)

 

It seems like an admirable idea, but what happens if one of these players gets hurt? Yikes.

[harmony]

Has a free agent ever signed with the Red Sox for less money than offered by another club?

 

I think I've read reports suggesting that but I can't remember the specifics.

 

The bottom line is that a free agent does not always go with the most money.

[FredLynn]

Most people value getting as much money as possible, including Henry and DD.

 

I agree....within reason. If the going rate for my profession is $100,000 at my experience and proficiency level, is it reasonable for me to hold out for $150,00 ad nauseam and become impatient with the group offering the job? There is a point at which reason should prevail, and JD Martinez and Borass have gone WELL beyond that point. They have even gone beyond simple greed. There are no metrics at all that support more than $125M and 5 years. He just WANTS more. Both those guys are greedy weasels.

[Bellhorn04]

Has a free agent ever signed with the Red Sox for less money than offered by another club?

 

I think I've read reports suggesting that but I can't remember the specifics.

 

The bottom line is that a free agent does not always go with the most money.

 

They may not always go with the most money, but in the history of free agency, how many cases are there of a player taking an offer that was substantially lower than what another team offered?

[Natick to NC]

Harmony ....Mitch took less.....drum role .......Arod wanted to play here and restructure his contract during the manny swap that never happened .You have to ask what if . Edited February 8, 2018 by Natick to NC

[notin]

Has a free agent ever signed with the Red Sox for less money than offered by another club?

 

Bernie Williams

[notin]

The problem for JD is he does not have any other offers even close to Boston.

 

I have no doubt he would prefer to play in AZ. He had the best 3 month stretch of his career there, one where he became a legend. Or even more, he became an Unholy Killing Machine unleashed upon NL pitching. He was Roy Hobbs times Pedro Cerrano with a little Benny the Jet thrown in for good measure.

 

But his only reasonable offer was from Boston. We know this to be definitively true because his quote, likely manufactured by Boras, was he was upset with "Boston" being inflexible. Not with other teams being inflexible. Just Boston. Know why the Sox were singled out? Because they were his single suitor.

 

So now he is desperately trying to re-open negotiations with AZ. All things being equal, I believe he goes back to AZ. Maybe even some things being less, he goes back. But how much less, is the question.

 

And Boras needs two suitors to make this work. Which is why, right after the quote about Martinez being unhappy came out, so did some long ago rumor about the Sox being offered Edwin Encarnacion. That was DD responding with "Maybe you don't have other options, but we do."

[Spudboy]

The problem for JD is he does not have any other offers even close to Boston.

 

I have no doubt he would prefer to play in AZ. He had the best 3 month stretch of his career there, one where he became a legend. Or even more, he became an Unholy Killing Machine unleashed upon NL pitching. He was Roy Hobbs times Pedro Cerrano with a little Benny the Jet thrown in for good measure.

 

But his only reasonable offer was from Boston. We know this to be definitively true because his quote, likely manufactured by Boras, was he was upset with "Boston" being inflexible. Not with other teams being inflexible. Just Boston. Know why the Sox were singled out? Because they were his single suitor.

 

So now he is desperately trying to re-open negotiations with AZ. All things being equal, I believe he goes back to AZ. Maybe even some things being less, he goes back. But how much less, is the question.

 

And Boras needs two suitors to make this work. Which is why, right after the quote about Martinez being unhappy came out, so did some long ago rumor about the Sox being offered Edwin Encarnacion. That was DD responding with "Maybe you don't have other options, but we do."

 

I enjoyed this post.

[Jack Flap]

Logan Morrison is on the Red Sox’ radar as a potential backup option should they not sign Martinez, per Heyman. The 30-year-old would be a considerably more affordable source of power to slot into the DH spot in the lineup (presumably with some occasional time at first base to give Mitch Moreland a break, or in the event of a Moreland injury). It’s been fairly quiet on Morrison for much of the offseason despite the fact that he’s run up a 130 wRC+ over his past 900 big league plate appearances. MLBTR’s Connor Byrne recently took a lengthier look at Morrison’s merits.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/02/mlb-rumors-jd-martinez-diamondbacks-yu-darvish-brewers.html

[cp176]

The problem for JD is he does not have any other offers even close to Boston.

 

I have no doubt he would prefer to play in AZ. He had the best 3 month stretch of his career there, one where he became a legend. Or even more, he became an Unholy Killing Machine unleashed upon NL pitching. He was Roy Hobbs times Pedro Cerrano with a little Benny the Jet thrown in for good measure.

 

But his only reasonable offer was from Boston. We know this to be definitively true because his quote, likely manufactured by Boras, was he was upset with "Boston" being inflexible. Not with other teams being inflexible. Just Boston. Know why the Sox were singled out? Because they were his single suitor.

 

So now he is desperately trying to re-open negotiations with AZ. All things being equal, I believe he goes back to AZ. Maybe even some things being less, he goes back. But how much less, is the question.

 

And Boras needs two suitors to make this work. Which is why, right after the quote about Martinez being unhappy came out, so did some long ago rumor about the Sox being offered Edwin Encarnacion. That was DD responding with "Maybe you don't have other options, but we do."

 

Right on! He goes back to Arizona for less because he is happy in Arizona. DD must have a pretty good handle on the whole free agent landscape. I wonder if some of the bigger names haven't signed because they are hopeful that Boston's attention turns away from Martinez and to them instead.

[notin]

Right on! He goes back to Arizona for less because he is happy in Arizona. DD must have a pretty good handle on the whole free agent landscape. I wonder if some of the bigger names haven't signed because they are hopeful that Boston's attention turns away from Martinez and to them instead.

 

The reverse might be true as well. One of the reasons DD hasn't turned his attention away from Martinez is that a lot of other bigger names haven't signed....

[S5Dewey]

Right on! He goes back to Arizona for less because he is happy in Arizona. DD must have a pretty good handle on the whole free agent landscape. I wonder if some of the bigger names haven't signed because they are hopeful that Boston's attention turns away from Martinez and to them instead.

 

When you have $125M and you're unhappy another million or two isn't going to make you any happier. If he feels he'd be happier in AZ than in Boston then that's where he should be. Move on.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't know if I dreamed it or not, but I'm pretty sure someone on MLB Network said last night the Sox actual offer to JDM is 5/110.

[Jack Flap]

It would be the ultimate concluding twist to this saga if, after months of everyone assuming JD was going for every last dollar he could possibly get, he took a lesser deal to return to Arizona. It would rather seem like he went to the trouble of hiring Scott Boras for nothing - and indeed, I'm not convinced this isn't some last-ditch effort to wring even more money out of the Red Sox - but if that's truly what he wants, I would not blame him for doing what he thinks will make him happiest...I would only ask that he get on with it sometime soon so everyone can move on with their lives.

 

Snagging Morrison or Duda on a 1-2 year deal (and keeping our powder dry for next winter) is looking better all the time.

[notin]

When you have $125M and you're unhappy another million or two isn't going to make you any happier. If he feels he'd be happier in AZ than in Boston then that's where he should be. Move on.

 

Yes but where is that breaking point?

 

He could live the rest of his life on a 5 year $75mill contract, and AZ would undoubtedly love to offer that. But it won't happen, and we all know it. (Granted, the MLBPA would be rather upset with him for leaving $50mill on the table and setting a dangerous precedent.) But would the $50mill from Boston make him happy? And only for 5 years? No idea how Martinez feels about Boston, but for $50mill, I'll live in a sewer for 5 years. And then move out 5 years later directly to the north shore of Oahu. At some point, there is a breaking point where he returns to AZ, but part of me also knows he didn't hire Scott Boras because he wanted to give a hometown discount.

 

Reportedly the DBacks' offer is now somewhat equal to Boston's, but it's only being reported that way by Jon Heyman, who's basically Scott Boras' homegrown version of Squealer. So right after DD spills the beans about Encarnacion, Boras runs back to the press and has his little toady say "the offers are equal!! The offers are equal!!" Not buying it. Unless that happened in the last 24 hours, which I doubt, then I still wonder why JD was only mad at Boston for being inflexible and not Arizona.

 

To me it still looks like Boston is the only guy throwing money around. And I think Martinez' frustration might be more with Boras for letting this drag on than it is with Boston...

[notin]

I don't know if I dreamed it or not, but I'm pretty sure someone on MLB Network said last night the Sox actual offer to JDM is 5/110.

 

It's somewhere in the $100 to $130 range. I've seen all kinds of numbers. The only consistent one is the 5 years.

 

Either way, it's the best offer he has. And probably by a lot...

[Bellhorn04]

I don't think there can be any doubt now that Boras made a blunder with his original campaign about the King Kong of Slug looking for $210 million. There has to be some embarrassment factor there for Martinez.

 

It seems Boras had no clue whatsoever what he was walking into this offseason.

[S5Dewey]

 

To me it still looks like Boston is the only guy throwing money around. And I think Martinez' frustration might be more with Boras for letting this drag on than it is with Boston...

I agree that JDM hired Boras to maximize his salary, but at the same time JDM mas to make his own decisions. If what you say is true the solution is quite easy. All he has to do is say, "Scott, thanks for your help. I'm taking the Boston offer and it's more than I would have gotten without you. Now get the paperwork ready."

 

I'm admittedly cynical. I believe that Boras operates as much in his own best interest as he does the player's best interest and there's nothing wrong with that until it becomes a conflict of interest. But let's get real. Scott Boras gets 5% (or whatever) of what his players sign for so he has a vested interest in maximizing the player's salaries.

 

However, it should be up to the players to make their own decisions as to where they want to play and for how much. If Boras doesn't get his maximum payday... sux to be you, Scott!

[mvp 78]

I don't know if I dreamed it or not, but I'm pretty sure someone on MLB Network said last night the Sox actual offer to JDM is 5/110.

 

Even better at this point.

[mvp 78]

I don't think there can be any doubt now that Boras made a blunder with his original campaign about the King Kong of Slug looking for $210 million. There has to be some embarrassment factor there for Martinez.

 

It seems Boras had no clue whatsoever what he was walking into this offseason.

 

Especially when EE only signed for 3/60 last offseason.

[Bellhorn04]

Especially when EE only signed for 3/60 last offseason.

 

Exactly.