2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[harmony]

Harmony, why are you so intent on having other outbidding us for JD?

I'm not intent on anything.

 

I simply question fans who assume the Red Sox have made the best offer to date. Perhaps the Sox indeed have the best offer but I can't conclude that based on a few random leaks that fail to provide the full picture.

 

As I've written before, absent collusion, the team that signs J.D. Martinez is likely to overpay. The Red Sox may not want to be that team.

[harmony]

At some point, Martinez is going to have to simply take the best offer, whatever it is. Teams are apparently very reluctant to meet his demands.

 

And if the teams who lost out on Cain yet thought him to be a better value, were all offering less than $80mill for 5 years. Now they are supposedly going to top $125mill over 5 years? For the player they deemed a worse value? And who plays a drastically different position?

J.D. Martinez is "apparently very reluctant to meet" the demands of the offering teams.

 

It's a two-way street.

 

A club that had hoped to find value in Lorenzo Cain and another free agent might now consolidate its resources in pursuit of Martinez.

 

Or not.

[Natick to NC]

JD Martinez is the closest player we could ever hope to get next to a 31year old David Ortiz ... Edited January 29, 2018 by Natick to NC

[notin]

J.D. Martinez is "apparently very reluctant to meet" the demands of the offering teams.

 

It's a two-way street.

 

A club that had hoped to find value in Lorenzo Cain and another free agent might now consolidate its resources in pursuit of Martinez.

 

Or not.

 

You're starting to reach a little...

[notin]

JD Martinez is the closest player we could ever hope to retain next to a 31year old David Ortiz ...

 

Yes and Honolulu HI is the US capital city closest to the equator. But it's still not close to it...

[FredLynn]

J.D. Martinez is "apparently very reluctant to meet" the demands of the offering teams.

 

It's a two-way street.

 

A club that had hoped to find value in Lorenzo Cain and another free agent might now consolidate its resources in pursuit of Martinez.

 

Or not.

 

One has to feel a great deal of sorrow for JD Martinez. Seems $120M isn't enough to feed his family. How could we possibly expect him to survive on so little?

[cp176]

You're starting to reach a little...

 

You think harmony is starting to reach a little - I'm still trying to figure out why it seems to be such an engaging topic for harmony.

[Natick to NC]

Yes and Honolulu HI is the US capital city closest to the equator. But it's still not close to it...

Again not David ...closest in this market .

[jacksonianmarch]

One has to feel a great deal of sorrow for JD Martinez. Seems $120M isn't enough to feed his family. How could we possibly expect him to survive on so little?

 

Now you’re just jealous man. It’s the American way. Market price is market price and $120 mil guaranteed is a bit light IMO for JD

[harmony]

One has to feel a great deal of sorrow for JD Martinez. Seems $120M isn't enough to feed his family. How could we possibly expect him to survive on so little?

Or that the Red Sox owners can't feed their families despite the club's annual revenue of $434 million, which is more than the $380 million paid to buy the club in 2002:

 

https://www.forbes.com/teams/boston-red-sox/

 

The team purchased for $380 million in 2002 was valued last April at $2.7 billion.

[Natick to NC]

Not my money but if I'm JD I'm looking at 6 years 145 and I jump a plane tonight to wake up Dave to get it finalized ..Yes it's fair .Put in an opt out in year 3 .

[Bellhorn04]

Or that the Red Sox owners can't feed their families despite the club's annual revenue of $434 million, which is more than the $380 million paid to buy the club in 2002:

 

https://www.forbes.com/teams/boston-red-sox/

 

The team purchased for $380 million in 2002 was valued last April at $2.7 billion.

 

Red Sox ownership is wealthy, no one's denying that. But between all the bad contracts they've experienced, and all the taxes and penalties in place for exceeding payroll thresholds, you can't blame them for being a little conservative about how much they're willing to pay JDM.

[moonslav59]

I've never assumed no other teams might out bid the Sox or have a current offer higher than ours on the table, but I just can't think of a team who fits the bill.

 

One would think there'd be some sort of mentioning of another serious team.

 

I think $125M/5 gets him, but if someone wants to offer $140M/6 and he takes it, I won't be heart-broken or upset with DD for not upping the offer.

[harmony]

You think harmony is starting to reach a little - I'm still trying to figure out why it seems to be such an engaging topic for harmony.

For many years I've been fascinated with the valuation of MLB players.

 

Many posters to this and other Red Sox message boards assume the Sox have made the best offer to J.D. Martinez. However, to date all we have are random leaks from unidentified sources that Martinez has multiple five-year offers and that the Red Sox have offered $125 million over five years. The reliability or unreliability of anonymous sources aside, from that scant information no one can logically conclude that the Red Sox have the best offer.

 

The Red Sox may have the best offer. Or the Red Sox may not have the best offer.

 

In the end J.D. Martinez will decide the matter by taking what the top free agent hitter views as the best offer.

[moonslav59]

For many years I've been fascinated with the valuation of MLB players.

 

Many posters to this and other Red Sox message boards assume the Sox have made the best offer to J.D. Martinez. However, to date all we have are random leaks from unidentified sources that Martinez has multiple five-year offers and that the Red Sox have offered $125 million over five years. The reliability or unreliability of anonymous sources aside, from that scant information no one can logically conclude that the Red Sox have the best offer.

 

The Red Sox may have the best offer. Or the Red Sox may not have the best offer.

 

In the end J.D. Martinez will decide the matter by taking what the top free agent hitter views as the best offer.

 

I don't disagree with anything said here. I'm not a homer Red Sox fan pining for JD. If he goes elsewhere, and we acquire someone else significant, I'll be happy.

 

I'm racking my brain trying to figure out who those other teams are with 5 year offers on the table that might top the reported $125M the Sox offered. Yes, there's a chance JD accepts less than what we offer, and if he does nobody can really blame DD for losing out.

 

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe other Sox fans are wrong. We've been wrong before, but with No Dodgers or Yankees in the mix, I just don't see AZ, TOR or SF going much higher than $100M/5... let alone $125M. I'll gladly admit I was wrong, if it turns out I'm wrong.

 

[Natick to NC]

15 days ...time for Dave to get off vacation .

[Larry Cook]

15 days ...time for Dave to get off vacation .

 

Really it is time for Dave to go on vacation so he does not bid against himself!!!!

 

We have no roster spot for JD, do best to sign a pitcher instead!

[cp176]

For many years I've been fascinated with the valuation of MLB players.

 

Many posters to this and other Red Sox message boards assume the Sox have made the best offer to J.D. Martinez. However, to date all we have are random leaks from unidentified sources that Martinez has multiple five-year offers and that the Red Sox have offered $125 million over five years. The reliability or unreliability of anonymous sources aside, from that scant information no one can logically conclude that the Red Sox have the best offer.

 

The Red Sox may have the best offer. Or the Red Sox may not have the best offer.

 

In the end J.D. Martinez will decide the matter by taking what the top free agent hitter views as the best offer.

 

To date I have seen no reports at all about any specific offers made by any other team. I have heard the names of 3 teams that might have or have had interest but nothing from any source making me think that he has received any offer to rival what Boston has made. It is possible that I just am not paying attention.

[Bellhorn04]

The Red Sox may have the best offer. Or the Red Sox may not have the best offer.

 

In the end J.D. Martinez will decide the matter by taking what the top free agent hitter views as the best offer.

 

Or, the Red Sox will decide the matter by pulling their offer and going in another direction.

 

Martinez will end up signing a smaller deal with Arizona because, well, he still wants to play baseball and like everyone he could use $100 million.

 

There are all sorts of scenarios, harmony.

 

Boras clients haven't always profited from his tactics.

 

See Varitek, Jason and Drew, Stephen.

[S5Dewey]

 

The team purchased for $380 million in 2002 was valued last April at $2.7 billion.

 

While that may be true it's also very misleading. The only way that $2.7 billion can be accessed is by selling the team, and selling the team is counter-productive to building (and keeping) a winning team. The sale value of the team doesn't really matter when it comes to paying the expenses.

[S5Dewey]

Meh. As I said last week, I'm willing to call JD's bluff. "Today's offer is 5/$125, tomorrow it's 5/$120, and we'll have to wait to see what the next day's offer is. And if you think you can do better than that, go to it, but know that our best offer may go down with every day we have to wait, until we sign someone else."

[Bellhorn04]

Meh. As I said last week, I'm willing to call JD's bluff. "Today's offer is 5/$125, tomorrow it's 5/$120, and we'll have to wait to see what the next day's offer is. And if you think you can do better than that, go to it, but know that our best offer may go down with every day we have to wait, until we sign someone else."

 

I understand the sentiment, but I don't think Dave Dombrowski is going to use 'hardball' tactics quite like that. But he could certainly place a deadline on his best offer.

[mvp 78]

One has to feel a great deal of sorrow for JD Martinez. Seems $120M isn't enough to feed his family. How could we possibly expect him to survive on so little?

 

Now here is a really dumb post.

[mvp 78]

For many years I've been fascinated with the valuation of MLB players.

 

Many posters to this and other Red Sox message boards assume the Sox have made the best offer to J.D. Martinez. However, to date all we have are random leaks from unidentified sources that Martinez has multiple five-year offers and that the Red Sox have offered $125 million over five years. The reliability or unreliability of anonymous sources aside, from that scant information no one can logically conclude that the Red Sox have the best offer.

 

The Red Sox may have the best offer. Or the Red Sox may not have the best offer.

 

In the end J.D. Martinez will decide the matter by taking what the top free agent hitter views as the best offer.

 

I haven't seen anything to suggest a team other than the Sox have given him a five year offer. Where did you see this?

[mvp 78]

Or, the Red Sox will decide the matter by pulling their offer and going in another direction.

 

Martinez will end up signing a smaller deal with Arizona because, well, he still wants to play baseball and like everyone he could use $100 million.

 

There are all sorts of scenarios, harmony.

 

Boras clients haven't always profited from his tactics.

 

See Varitek, Jason and Drew, Stephen.

 

The only other time they pulled an offer was with Teixeira (also was a Boras client). I don't believe they'll do that again, but you never really know.

[mvp 78]

I understand the sentiment, but I don't think Dave Dombrowski is going to use 'hardball' tactics quite like that. But he could certainly place a deadline on his best offer.

 

Something like "well, if your client hasn't made up his mind by Feb 1, we'll just have to start looking elsewhere. If we find another guy we like, don't expect the offer to be there."

 

The only problem is that the Sox telegraphed at the start of the offseason that they wanted a power hitter and that their preferred guy was JD Martinez. Because of that, Boras realized he could just wait them out and keep playing the field as the Sox were probably not going anywhere else.

[oldtimer]

Meh. As I said last week, I'm willing to call JD's bluff. "Today's offer is 5/$125, tomorrow it's 5/$120, and we'll have to wait to see what the next day's offer is. And if you think you can do better than that, go to it, but know that our best offer may go down with every day we have to wait, until we sign someone else."

 

If we have made the highest offer and if he is dragging it out, does it mean he really doesn't want to play in Boston? If he doesn't want us, we should pull out now.

[harmony]

Or, the Red Sox will decide the matter by pulling their offer and going in another direction.

 

Martinez will end up signing a smaller deal with Arizona because, well, he still wants to play baseball and like everyone he could use $100 million.

 

There are all sorts of scenarios, harmony.

 

Boras clients haven't always profited from his tactics.

 

See Varitek, Jason and Drew, Stephen.

That's akin to criticizing a wildly profitable stock portfolio because two of the 50 stocks tanked.

 

Scott Boras can't guarantee individual results but his overall portfolio might be the best in the business.

[mvp 78]

If we have made the highest offer and if he is dragging it out, does it mean he really doesn't want to play in Boston? If he doesn't want us, we should pull out now.

 

It just means he wants the most money possible. Can't really blame him too much.

[mvp 78]

That's akin to criticizing a wildly profitable stock portfolio because two of the 50 stocks tanked.

 

Scott Boras can't guarantee individual results but his overall portfolio might be the best in the business.

 

And I believe Tek took less money to stay with the Sox.