2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[baseball jones]

Baseball jones you're on the ball with Manny .I would absolutely love this kid at Fenway ...I'm confused about Dave not being well .......Dave in regards to Manny .

 

you know the funny thing that comes to mind when you say that is machado also has boras....if martinez blows up signing machado might be near impossible

[Bellhorn04]

you know the funny thing that comes to mind when you say that is machado also has boras....if martinez blows up signing machado might be near impossible

 

Machado isn't a Boras client at present.

[baseball jones]

Machado isn't a Boras client at present.

 

my mistake i thought he was for some reason.

 

makes me wonder more why we dont go after him?

[Bellhorn04]

my mistake i thought he was for some reason.

 

makes me wonder more why we dont go after him?

 

Apparently we had some discussions with the O's, but they were asking for a ton, and it was only for one season of him.

[Kimmi]

Gotta hang in there a few more weeks and see what happens.

 

I'm pretty sure DD will not go over 130 or 135 million for JDM.

 

I don't see how JD can have an offer that is higher than or equal to the Red Sox offer. If he did, then Dombrowski would either top it, or he knows he's not going to top it and he would move on. This is just Boras and JD thinking that JD deserves more than what the Sox offered, and hoping that Dombrowski will eventually cave as spring training draws closer.

 

It is time for Dombrowski to set a take it or leave it deadline.

[notin]

If this stalemate with Martinez continues, the Sox could and should grab Morrison (or Duda, if Morrison is unavailable), which makes Hanley's vesting option less likely to vest. So that $22million, plus the $25million not spent on Martinez (minus the cost of Morrison/Duda) could be put towards Machado or Harper.

 

I feel like I've said this before. But if Dombrowski doesn't do anything different today, why should I?

[Bellhorn04]

If this stalemate with Martinez continues, the Sox could and should grab Morrison (or Duda, if Morrison is unavailable), which makes Hanley's vesting option less likely to vest. So that $22million, plus the $25million not spent on Martinez (minus the cost of Morrison/Duda) could be put towards Machado or Harper.

 

I feel like I've said this before. But if Dombrowski doesn't do anything different today, why should I?

 

What's so unusual is that so many other players are still unsigned. We've never seen anything like this kind of stagnancy.

 

On the other side of the coin, if the Red Sox primary focus is JDM, why should they move on to other less preferable options if it seems highly unlikely no other team is going to make a serious move on JDM? He's not going to hold out forever with $125 million or so sitting on the table.

[harmony]

Boston Herald columnist Michael Silverman suggests that if Lorenzo Cain, who is 16 months older than J.D. Martinez, can land a five-year contract, the Red Sox should offer Martinez more than five years:

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox/2018/01/silverman_lorenzo_cain_move_affects_red_sox_pursuit_of_jd_martinez

[Bellhorn04]

This isn't like buying a car where you can walk away from one dealership and go to another one selling the identical vehicle for less. There's only one truly big bat available and it's JDM. Edited January 27, 2018 by Bellhorn04

[Bellhorn04]

Boston Herald columnist Michael Silverman suggests that if Lorenzo Cain, who is 16 months older than J.D. Martinez, can land a five-year contract, the Red Sox should offer Martinez more than five years:

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox/2018/01/silverman_lorenzo_cain_move_affects_red_sox_pursuit_of_jd_martinez

 

But does this mean that the Red Sox should quite literally outbid themselves if necessary?

[Kimmi]

Boston Herald columnist Michael Silverman suggests that if Lorenzo Cain, who is 16 months older than J.D. Martinez, can land a five-year contract, the Red Sox should offer Martinez more than five years:

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox/2018/01/silverman_lorenzo_cain_move_affects_red_sox_pursuit_of_jd_martinez

 

The fallacy of that article is that Silverman is suggesting that because one team was willing to hand out a bad contract, all the other teams should be willing to do so.

[Kimmi]

This isn't like buying a car where you can walk away from one dealership and go to another one selling the identical vehicle for less. There's only one truly big bat available and it's JDM.

 

No, but if this drags into spring training, it could be to the detriment of the team.

[harmony]

But does this mean that the Red Sox should quite literally outbid themselves if necessary?

If the Milwaukee Brewers could sign Lorenzo Cain to a five-year contract I would not be surprised if another team has already offered J.D. Martinez six years.

 

I suspect multiple teams are pursuing Martinez. Who would have thought the small-market Brewers -- with an existing outfield Domingo Santana, Ryan Braun and Keon Broxton -- would acquire Christian Yelich and Lorenzo Cain?

[harmony]

The fallacy of that article is that Silverman is suggesting that because one team was willing to hand out a bad contract, all the other teams should be willing to do so.

Absent collusion, the team that lands J.D. Martinez is likely to overpay.

 

As I've written repeatedly, the Red Sox may not want to be that team.

[Bellhorn04]

If the Milwaukee Brewers could sign Lorenzo Cain to a five-year contract I would not be surprised if another team has already offered J.D. Martinez six years.

 

It's not just years that matter.

 

Cain 5/80

JDM 5/125

 

Notice any difference there?

 

Also worth noting is that Cain is a 'complete player'. JDM is a bad defensive player with a DH profile.

[harmony]

It's not just years that matter.

 

Cain 5/80

JDM 5/125

 

Notice any difference there?

 

Also worth noting is that Cain is a 'complete player'. JDM is a bad defensive player with a DH profile.

Also worth noting is that J.D. Martinez, unlike Lorenzo Cain, does not require the signing club to surrender a draft pick as compensation.

[Bellhorn04]

Also worth noting is that J.D. Martinez, unlike Lorenzo Cain, does not require the signing club to surrender a draft pick as compensation.

 

Certainly true. But at issue is what other offers do the Red Sox have to beat? That's normally all that really matters.

[cp176]

I don't see how JD can have an offer that is higher than or equal to the Red Sox offer. If he did, then Dombrowski would either top it, or he knows he's not going to top it and he would move on. This is just Boras and JD thinking that JD deserves more than what the Sox offered, and hoping that Dombrowski will eventually cave as spring training draws closer.

 

It is time for Dombrowski to set a take it or leave it deadline.

 

 

I'm with you all the way on this one. DD works in a field of which I am not familiar and he has to know something here that we don't. I just can't help but think that he absolutely believes that JD will sign with us. Unless he is just absolutely convinced that our current team as assembled will compete for a championship, which I really doubt he believes, I don't see any other explanation. Personally I was ready to move away from this plan yesterday.

[cp176]

The fallacy of that article is that Silverman is suggesting that because one team was willing to hand out a bad contract, all the other teams should be willing to do so.

 

I wish that I could have said this. It is how I feel.

[harmony]

Certainly true. But at issue is what other offers do the Red Sox have to beat? That's normally all that really matters.

Theoretically, the Red Sox would need to beat the best offer.

 

If another club has the current best offer, the Red Sox theoretically would need to top that offer (or drop out).

 

If the Red Sox have the current best offer, J.D. Martinez and Scott Boras might be looking for a team to top that offer.

 

It should work out in the end.

[cp176]

If the Milwaukee Brewers could sign Lorenzo Cain to a five-year contract I would not be surprised if another team has already offered J.D. Martinez six years.

 

I suspect multiple teams are pursuing Martinez. Who would have thought the small-market Brewers -- with an existing outfield Domingo Santana, Ryan Braun and Keon Broxton -- would acquire Christian Yelich and Lorenzo Cain?

 

 

You actually might be right. Some bottom feeder organization may just get a chance to steal JD Martinez if the Red Sox move away from him. He is the one who stands to lose the most if the Red Sox decide they have waited long enough. Kind of looks like a very risky game that is being played not really for the Sox.

[notin]

If the Milwaukee Brewers could sign Lorenzo Cain to a five-year contract I would not be surprised if another team has already offered J.D. Martinez six years.

 

I suspect multiple teams are pursuing Martinez. Who would have thought the small-market Brewers -- with an existing outfield Domingo Santana, Ryan Braun and Keon Broxton -- would acquire Christian Yelich and Lorenzo Cain?

 

 

Sure multiple teams might be pursuing him. But who?

 

With Cain, there was a lot of chatter linking him to several teams and multiple 4 year offers. That makes sense considering he signed a 5 year deal that was likely the best offer.

 

With Martinez, the talk so far has been Boston and no one else. If Cain's agent had little issue letting his multiple 4 year offers be known publicly, and it secured his client a fifth guaranteed year, then why no similar reveal from Boras? Are you arguing Boras shouldn't be doing what is clearly best for his client?

[harmony]

Sure multiple teams might be pursuing him. But who?

 

With Cain, there was a lot of chatter linking him to several teams and multiple 4 year offers. That makes sense considering he signed a 5 year deal that was likely the best offer.

 

With Martinez, the talk so far has been Boston and no one else. If Cain's agent had little issue letting his multiple 4 year offers be known publicly, and it secured his client a fifth guaranteed year, then why no similar reveal from Boras? Are you arguing Boras shouldn't be doing what is clearly best for his client?

Earlier this month FanRag columnist Jon Heyman reported that J.D. Martinez had multiple five-year offers:

 

https://www.fanragsports.com/inside-baseball-where-top-10-mlb-free-agents-stand-in-slow-market/

 

We'll learn soon enough ... but not soon enough.

[cp176]

Earlier this month FanRag columnist Jon Heyman reported that J.D. Martinez had multiple five-year offers:

 

https://www.fanragsports.com/inside-baseball-where-top-10-mlb-free-agents-stand-in-slow-market/

 

We'll learn soon enough ... but not soon enough.

 

Yup - Giants (likely not anymore) - Blue Jays (likely not) - Arizona possibly but only because that is where he wants to be unless we all of a sudden hear that Grienke has been moved.

[Bellhorn04]

Theoretically, the Red Sox would need to beat the best offer.

 

If another club has the current best offer, the Red Sox theoretically would need to top that offer (or drop out).

 

If the Red Sox have the current best offer, J.D. Martinez and Scott Boras might be looking for a team to top that offer.

 

It should work out in the end.

 

Yes, it'll work out in the end for someone, that's for sure. Hopefully it's us. I think JDM is a good bet to be good, personally.

[Spudboy]

Earlier this month FanRag columnist Jon Heyman reported that J.D. Martinez had multiple five-year offers:

 

https://www.fanragsports.com/inside-baseball-where-top-10-mlb-free-agents-stand-in-slow-market/

 

We'll learn soon enough ... but not soon enough.

 

"Or not".

 

Fixed this for you.

[Hitch]

Boston Herald columnist Michael Silverman suggests that if Lorenzo Cain, who is 16 months older than J.D. Martinez, can land a five-year contract, the Red Sox should offer Martinez more than five years:

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox/2018/01/silverman_lorenzo_cain_move_affects_red_sox_pursuit_of_jd_martinez

 

 

Quite literally the worst argument I've ever seen put forward in an article. Absolute drivel.

[notin]

Quite literally the worst argument I've ever seen put forward in an article. Absolute drivel.

 

This whole scenari suggests Dombrowski is not "all in" on trying to win this upcoming season. "All in" would have him meet Boras' demands,

 

This is fine with me that he doesn't want to ruin 5 or 6 years (or more) from now with another bloated contract for a player who a late30's player barely justify starting.

 

So... start those backup plans, DD. Before everyone else does...

[Larry Cook]

This whole scenari suggests Dombrowski is not "all in" on trying to win this upcoming season. "All in" would have him meet Boras' demands,

 

This is fine with me that he doesn't want to ruin 5 or 6 years (or more) from now with another bloated contract for a player who a late30's player barely justify starting.

 

So... start those backup plans, DD. Before everyone else does...

 

1.) maybe dave has faith that this current team can win it all as configured now. I happen to agree with him.... if all our pitchers are healthy and someone steps up in the locker room and leads our zombies!

 

2.) dave has no plans, period! He has no primary plan. He had no backup plan! He is a reactionary. He does not think in terms of medium or long range. He only sees to the end of his nose. He is a fireman, not a strategist.

[Kimmi]

If the Milwaukee Brewers could sign Lorenzo Cain to a five-year contract I would not be surprised if another team has already offered J.D. Martinez six years.

 

I suspect multiple teams are pursuing Martinez. Who would have thought the small-market Brewers -- with an existing outfield Domingo Santana, Ryan Braun and Keon Broxton -- would acquire Christian Yelich and Lorenzo Cain?

 

Multiple teams pursuing JD is likely. JD having a 6 year offer is not likely.