2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[notin]

I'd prefer trading JBJ and whatever for Ozuna. Age, cost, position, power, average are all there plus he is a CF. Would the Marlins let him go? Stanton has more power but Ozuna might be a better match for the Sox. I also want to keep our young core but think JBJ would be expendable if we could get Ozuna. Maybe I'm dreaming that Jeter would consider such a trade.

 

Ozuna was removed from CF and moved to LF this past season. He's basically the same player as Bradley, but a better fit if you like home runs and hate defense...

[notin]

I agree he won't get us a "can't miss" prospects but he has a lot of value, he batted .300 and he's only 27, by the way, his contract by today standards is team friendly (3/38M + a team option). I'm sure there will be more than one team interested in his services. I don't think he finishes his contract in NY, Torres and Andujar are coming to the Bronx in 2018 and they have a chance to be better than him (certainly have more potential, specially Torres)

 

Actually his contract is only 2 yrs $23mill. No one wants that $16mill option at the end. Not in place of the $1mill buyout.

 

Torres has played 55 games above A ball, and then destroyed his elbow. He'll probably recover fully, but he isn't going to be in your infield in April. Probably not May, either. So Castro is.

 

And really, there is a decent chance either Torres or Andujar or both fails to make an immediate impact. I know it's hard for Sox and Yankee fans to believe, but not all prospects hit the ground running. Some take a few seasons to get it together. Doubtful the Yankees unload everyone to pave the way for these guys. So by the time the Yankees unload Castro, he might be on a one year $12mill deal. So maybe he gets dealt, but he won't have a ton of value at that point...

Edited October 21, 2017 by notin

[notin]

I'm not in any rush to trade any of our young guys. I'd rather keep our young core with their cost controlled salaries than take on Stanton's 10 years. I really expect that our offense will be better next year even if we don't 'upgrade'.

 

I think the Sox should add a bat

 

I'm hesitant to think they need to address the pitching. This team won 93 games while getting more starts from Doug Fister (16) than David Price (11). If Price comes back, he is the upgrade.

 

They do need to replace ERod at the back end. Wright is certainly possible, but I'd like more depth. Particularly depth that isn't Wright. I don't think the Sox need to add Darvish/Arrieta/Tanaka/Cobb. Maybe someone like Cashner or Garza (who is apparently Price's best friend.) Just hold down the fort until ERod returns and someone else gets hurt...

[oldtimer]

Ozuna was removed from CF and moved to LF this past season. He's basically the same player as Bradley, but a better fit if you like home runs and hate defense...

 

We have CF candidates, what we don't have is a middle of the order bat. Ozuna could be that player and maybe at a reasonable cost.

[notin]

We have CF candidates, what we don't have is a middle of the order bat. Ozuna could be that player and maybe at a reasonable cost.

 

We have middle order bats like Ozuna. The OF is fine. Get a 1b like Abreu who had put up power numbers mote than one time...

[harmony]

I soured on the Bradley/Ozuna trades.

 

Both Bradley and Ozuna have been worth 7.3 fWAR over the past two seasons. Bradley is controlled for 3 more years, while Ozuna is under control for two. Bradley is older, but not by much (7 months).

 

So there is no overall upgrade, both players are at the same phase of their careers, and Bradley is under control for longer. Why is it the Sox are always asked to throw in extra players in this lateral/backwards deal?

That’s true but I doubt the Marlins will trade Marcell Ozuna for Jackie Bradley’s one added year of team control. The Fish would be looking for longer-term assets.

 

Perhaps the proposed trade works for neither team.

[sk7326]

Ozuna was removed from CF and moved to LF this past season. He's basically the same player as Bradley, but a better fit if you like home runs and hate defense...

 

I know - it's as if the Red Sox don't have a Top 10 defensive CF playing to Bradley's left!

[notin]

I know - it's as if the Red Sox don't have a Top 10 defensive CF playing to Bradley's left!

 

OF defense happens in more than just CF.

 

The current vacancy is 1b. Start the improvement there...

[moonslav59]

If they trade him this offseason they will be selling very low on him, don't think he's as good as he was in 2015 but is not anywhere near to the 2017 version, I guess his performance should be something in between 2015 and 2016

 

You're not alone, and I think GMs value him likewise, so I'm not sure Bogey's value slipped than much last year.

 

Also, I think GMs figure maybe his offense dipped due to playing injured.

[notin]

You're not alone, and I think GMs value him likewise, so I'm not sure Bogey's value slipped than much last year.

 

Also, I think GMs figure maybe his offense dipped due to playing injured.

 

It's not selling low if you get someone good.

 

I would only consider Bogaerts as trade bait because he has the least service time left of the Killer B's and because the farm has little to trade right now.

 

I also don't think every time a player has a slightly sub par season, his value plummets. GMs know what Bogaerts is capable of. Service time is a much bigger factor...

[moonslav59]

We have middle order bats like Ozuna. The OF is fine. Get a 1b like Abreu who had put up power numbers mote than one time...

 

 

ISO numbers since 2014:

 

(Selected players- not all listed)

 

.242 Player A

.240 Rizzo

.236 Goldschmidt

.227 Votto

.224 Abreu

.204 Miggy

.197 Santana

.196 Morrison

.191 Reynolds

.189 HRam

.187 Moreland

.178 AGon

.160 Hosmer

 

Last 2 years:

.272 Freeman

.256 Encarnacion

.253 Player A

.243 Rizzo

.241 Votto

.231 Morrison

.218 Santana

.218 Valbuena

.211 Abreu

.204 Miggy & HRam

.197 Reynolds

.193 Moreland

.173 Hosmer (and people wonder why I'm sour on the Hoze)

.173 Alonso

 

To be fair, here are the wRC+ numbers over the last 2 years:

129 Abreu

124 Santana

119 Hoze

118 Morrison

112 HRam

109 Alonso

108 Player A

107 Valbuena

103 Reynolds

.153 Alonso

 

Last 4 years:

161 Votto

139 Abreu

124 Player A

120 Santana

116 Hosmer

113 HRam

107 Alonso

98 Reynolds

98 Moreland

 

Who is Player A?

 

(Hint: he will likely sign for 1 year.)

 

 

Edited October 21, 2017 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

It's not selling low if you get someone good.

 

I would only consider Bogaerts as trade bait because he has the least service time left of the Killer B's and because the farm has little to trade right now.

 

I also don't think every time a player has a slightly sub par season, his value plummets. GMs know what Bogaerts is capable of. Service time is a much bigger factor...

 

Yes, that was the point I was making.

 

Another reason to trade Bogey is that with Devers at 3B on defense, having a superb defensive SS might help mitigate the loss of Bogey's bat.

[notin]

Yes, that was the point I was making.

 

Another reason to trade Bogey is that with Devers at 3B on defense, having a superb defensive SS might help mitigate the loss of Bogey's bat.

 

Absolutely.

 

There are a few elite defensive shortstops who might be available, depending on their respective teams' off-season plans.

 

If the Phillies turn to JP Crawford, Freddy Galvis is a potential non-tender candidate. Although an unlikely one.

 

U Conn alum Nick Ahmed is also possibly available. Especially if AZ addresses their lackluster middle infield.

 

Zack Cozart is a free agent.

[notin]

And of course there is always Tzu-Wei Lin, who is already here. He probably won't hit much, but neither will Ahmed or Galvis. ..

[Kimmi]

I'd prefer trading JBJ and whatever for Ozuna. Age, cost, position, power, average are all there plus he is a CF. Would the Marlins let him go? Stanton has more power but Ozuna might be a better match for the Sox. I also want to keep our young core but think JBJ would be expendable if we could get Ozuna. Maybe I'm dreaming that Jeter would consider such a trade.

 

I understand why people are looking for ways to upgrade our offense, but I really prefer not to do that at the expense of our defense. Ozuna is not a good defensive center fielder. I would just as soon stay with JBJ.

[Kimmi]

Ozuna was removed from CF and moved to LF this past season. He's basically the same player as Bradley, but a better fit if you like home runs and hate defense...

 

Dudes dig the long ball!

[Kimmi]

I think the Sox should add a bat

 

I'm hesitant to think they need to address the pitching. This team won 93 games while getting more starts from Doug Fister (16) than David Price (11). If Price comes back, he is the upgrade.

 

They do need to replace ERod at the back end. Wright is certainly possible, but I'd like more depth. Particularly depth that isn't Wright. I don't think the Sox need to add Darvish/Arrieta/Tanaka/Cobb. Maybe someone like Cashner or Garza (who is apparently Price's best friend.) Just hold down the fort until ERod returns and someone else gets hurt...

 

I think they should add a bat too. I just don't think they need to go crazy adding that bat, ie Stanton. That said, I would be okay if the Sox went with the same position players next year.

 

As far as the pitching goes, Price is the big question mark. If he is indeed healthy and can give us close to 30 starts, then I agree that he is the upgrade. The uncertainty with him is my main reason why I think pitching needs to be addressed.

[Kimmi]

I know - it's as if the Red Sox don't have a Top 10 defensive CF playing to Bradley's left!

 

That might be true, but then the team takes a big hit defensively in right field, which in Fenway, is no small matter.

[Kimmi]

OF defense happens in more than just CF.

 

The current vacancy is 1b. Start the improvement there...

 

I agree.

[Examiner]

I hate the Yankees as much as ever, and no one is happier they went down. However, let me say that the Yankees fought like true warriors this month, (maybe played a little over their heads) which is much more than I can say about our beloved Dead Sox, who, as predicted by myself, went down like milquetoast wusses the last two years. If the Sox front office doesn't get busy, and fast, we are going to find ourselves buried in the late 90's again. This NYY team is loaded, and whether it's getting Giancarlo Stanton or someone LIKE him, something has to be done about this offense, and something has to be done to get the right HEART in this team, a heart like the 2013 team had. If we don't, we got real trouble on the horizon. Aaron Judge is the real thing, and so is Sanchez, Sevorino, Bird, Gregorious--the whole bunch. Houston may have done us a favor, Im not sure we'd have beaten this Yankees team in the ALCS, I'd rather lose to Houston. Time to get to work or else. Edited October 22, 2017 by Examiner

[Larry Cook]

I believe Farrell said price has a tear in his pitching elbow. Unless he is hitting stem cells injections, there is no way he can make 30 starts next season,

 

Ps: I realize Tanaka also has something torn in his arm but still made his starts this season. No idea how he does it or how significant his tear is.

[oldtimer]

I think they should add a bat too. I just don't think they need to go crazy adding that bat, ie Stanton. That said, I would be okay if the Sox went with the same position players next year.

 

As far as the pitching goes, Price is the big question mark. If he is indeed healthy and can give us close to 30 starts, then I agree that he is the upgrade. The uncertainty with him is my main reason why I think pitching needs to be addressed.

 

I keep a general summary of potential Sox actions and believe DD has a steep hill to climb, given the salary limitations. While he probably can't take drastic actions some of those he could take and that have been discussed appear below.

 

 

Summary of Sox Improvement Needs

 

The Yankees, Guardians and Astros will all seek to improve in the offseason. Sox have to improve more to be competitive with them.

Nunez, Devers and Reed brought in and gave us a lift, without which we wouldn’t have made the playoffs.

Impediments include Panda contract, injuries to E-Rod, Pedey, Nunez and Hanley and FA of Nunez, Reed, Moreland

Moves in the making include managerial replacement and coaching replacements on which knowledgeable people have argued for and against.

Areas to address:

1. Lack of power bats in the lineup

Discussion includes possible 1st base addition or moving Devers to first to help with defense while taking on a 3rd base power bat. Also, possibly moving JBJ in favor of a power bat addition to the outfield.

2. Lack of general offensive efficiency

Possible improvement in coaching of existing players (Bogey) and plate approach strategy. Trading of erratic hitters for more consistent hitters (JBJ) although weighing it against defensive weakening. Dealing with second base issues. Hanley’s recovery?

3. Infield defense

Devers improvement or move. Living with Bogey. Need for 2nd base support or replacement. Playing Hanley at 1st or DH. Addition of 3rd or 1st baseman.

4. Starting pitching underperformance

Bad Porcello year. Still has arm and can eat innings. Can he be coached up? Loss of E-rod may require new starter. Will Price make it back as full time starter?

5. Rethinking utility players

Saying goodbye to Young, Davis and Holt? Taking utility guys from our existing roster?

6. Depleted minor league franchises

Can we get help from Chavis, Travis, Groome, Brannen, Hernandez, Lin, Marrero, others or should we include them in trade packages. Not much left to trade.

7. Continuous ruinous contracts that limit our financial flexibility

Panda contract still limits flexibility. Hanley’s if he doesn’t perform, Pedey if he is under the knife and can’t contribute. Porcello and Price if they can’t perform. Leaves us able to add one power bat and possibly help at 2nd and possibly relief help. After salary arbitration how much is left?

[Bellhorn04]

I believe Farrell said price has a tear in his pitching elbow. Unless he is hitting stem cells injections, there is no way he can make 30 starts next season,

 

Ps: I realize Tanaka also has something torn in his arm but still made his starts this season. No idea how he does it or how significant his tear is.

 

I'm quite sure no one has ever said Price has a tear.

[Kimmi]

Alex Cora will be our magic potion in 2018.

 

The Yankees built their team the right way. Dombrowski did not. That said, it would not be in Dombrowski's best interest to make rash moves. Our team is pretty good and pretty set for the next couple of years. We can compete with the Yankees with a few moves, none of which needs to involve Stanton.

[Dojji]

Last time I checked I was pretty sure we had a place for discussion of that team already.

[Behindenemylines]

Happy Yankee Elimination Day !!! It is one of my favorite holidays of the year. It was getting old hearing them be called the Baby Bombers. Two major members of the Sox, Bennie and Devers are younger then the youngest Yankee. The average age of their playoff roster is about the same as the Sox. They still have the second highest payroll in baseball. An what other team can add the likes of Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle, Gray, and Garcia during the season. Today, is a beautiful day!

[Behindenemylines]

All I want for Christmas is a 30 to 40 homer power bat!

[Bellhorn04]

Happy Yankee Elimination Day !!! It is one of my favorite holidays of the year. It was getting old hearing them be called the Baby Bombers. Two major members of the Sox, Bennie and Devers are younger then the youngest Yankee. The average age of their playoff roster is about the same as the Sox. They still have the second highest payroll in baseball. An what other team can add the likes of Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle, Gray, and Garcia during the season. Today, is a beautiful day!

 

You're right, it is a beautiful day.

 

And we're still out-titling the Yanks 3-1 in the John Henry era!

[Kimmi]

It's a beautiful day indeed!

 

And that doesn't even include the gorgeous weather we're having!

[notin]

I'm quite sure no one has ever said Price has a tear.

 

Technically, he didn't say anyone said Price has a tear. He said he believes Farrell said Price has a tear. Maybe he does believe that. He may also believe in Bigfoot...