Front office Decisions

[Houston Dirtdogs]

Dombrowski has to go. It's one bad decision after another. Take Farrell with you when you go because he does nothing to spark this team.

[Bellhorn04]

It all goes back to 2011. That was the year that screwed us.

[mvp 78]

Yup, Sale sucks, Kimbrel sucks, Ziegler was horrible for us.

[Kimmi]

From the great JoeB, a fellow poster, here's the breakdown of GM acquisitions for our team:

 

Theo-HOF 11.3 WAR at a cost of $26.4M

Woeful Ben 4.1 WAR at a cost of $96.3M

DD 12.0 WAR at a cost of $69.0M

 

Those are rough numbers, but should be good. It's a tough comp. On one hand, DD has not had a chance to develop his own prospects. OTOH, most of his good WAR guys were obtained with Theo and Ben's prospects. His FA acquisitions, Young, Price, Moreland, have combined for a 0.8 WAR for $43M.

 

For Ben, it's just bad.

 

For Theo, he's gone 6 years, and it is still his team.

 

 

I give Ben more credit than Joe does, mainly because Dombrowski's acquisitions that are performing well for us are the result of trading Ben's (Theo's players).

 

Dombrowski deserves his share of credit for sure, but I just don't get the all out love for him while at the same time bashing my boys. You don't get where this team is today, good or bad, without the strong farm system that was in place when Dombrowski arrived.

[Spudboy]

What are the WAR numbers for Pablow. Hanley, Castillo , and Craig?

[Larry Cook]

We need to send dave to the airport with a one way ticket.

 

1.) our current lineup has superior starting pitching. A very nice bullpen despite dave's inability to bring in an eighth inning guy.

 

2.) dave's inability to put together a competent hitting lineup. He left third base in the hands of panda with no backup plan. He put together a powderpuff lineup that has scored two runs or less in a ton of games this year.

 

3.) the brain drain from the operations department. We have lost a ton of talent and are now left with incompetent "yes" men in the front office.

 

4.) the devastation of the minor league system. Do not get me wrong, I was all for the trade for sale. Great move by dave. Even the Kimbrel, Pomeranz and Ziegler trades were ok, but expensive. At the end of the day, dave's trade are almost always made in desperation and without a plan. Then add in his need to over pay and you have a perfect nightmare scenario. Which is the what we have now for a minor league system.

 

People can defend dave and talk up the sale trade, but in summary he inherited a plane on the upswing and now it is a plane going down in flames.

[mvp 78]

At least it's not last damn place

[Bellhorn04]

We need to send dave to the airport with a one way ticket.

 

1.) our current lineup has superior starting pitching. A very nice bullpen despite dave's inability to bring in an eighth inning guy.

 

2.) dave's inability to put together a competent hitting lineup. He left third base in the hands of panda with no backup plan. He put together a powderpuff lineup that has scored two runs or less in a ton of games this year.

 

3.) the brain drain from the operations department. We have lost a ton of talent and are now left with incompetent "yes" men in the front office.

 

4.) the devastation of the minor league system. Do not get me wrong, I was all for the trade for sale. Great move by dave. Even the Kimbrel, Pomeranz and Ziegler trades were ok, but expensive. At the end of the day, dave's trade are almost always made in desperation and without a plan. Then add in his need to over pay and you have a perfect nightmare scenario. Which is the what we have now for a minor league system.

 

People can defend dave and talk up the sale trade, but in summary he inherited a plane on the upswing and now it is a plane going down in flames.

 

Have to let this season play out though.

[moonslav59]

Here are the FO major moves since Ben was squeezed out by DD after the 2015 season (Arb signings not listed):

 

8/31/15 Traded: de Aza for Luis Ysla (Ben still "GM")

11/6/15 Exercised Clay Buchholz option

11/13/15 Traded: Margot, Guerra, Asuaje & Allen for Kimbrel

12/2/15 Signed Chris Young ($13M/2)

12/4/15 Signed David Price ($217M/3)

12/7/15 Traded Miley & J Aro for Carson Smith & R Elias

1/27/16 Signed Bryan Mata as Int'l FA

June '16 Drafted Jason Groome (12), CJ Chatham (51), S Anderson (88), Bobby Dalbec (118), M Shawaryn (148), S Nogosek (178), Robby Scott (208) and others.

7/7/16 Traded W Rijo & A Wilkerson for Aaron Hill

7/9/16 Traded Basabe (the "other one")& J Almonte for B Ziegler

7/14/16 Traded A Espinoza for Drew Pomeranz

8/1/16 Traded Pat Light for Fernando Abad

 

11/3/16 Exercised option on Clay Buchholz (later traded him)

12/6/16 Traded T Shaw, M Dubon & J Pennington for Tyler Thornburg

12/8/16 Selected Josh Rutledge (Rule 5)

12/20/16 Traded Buchholz for Josh Tobias

FEb '17: Signed Hector Velazquez as Int'l FA

June '17: Drafted Tanner Houck (24), Cole Brennen (63), B Netzer (101), J Thompson (131), Alex Scherff (161) and others

7/2/17 Traded Nick Longhi & Imeldo Diaz for Int'l signing bonus pool space

July '17: Signed Daniel Flores, Danny Diaz, Antoni Flores and others as Int'l FAs

7/26/17 Traded S Anderson & G Santos for Eduardo Nunez

Edited July 29, 2017 by moonslav59

[jacksonianmarch]

The biggest offseason failure was not talking Ortiz back into playing. Signing him for $25 mil for a season might have seen him return. He was your leader. He was also a force offensively

[moonslav59]

The biggest offseason failure was not talking Ortiz back into playing. Signing him for $25 mil for a season might have seen him return. He was your leader. He was also a force offensively

 

I caught a lot of grief for suggesting we try this.

 

We could have even signed him to a guaranteed $25M/5 year deal (even if he retired after 2017) to lessen the burden on the luxury tax.

[Bellhorn04]

Well guys, it's quite possible he simply didn't want to play any more. He said his feet were causing him a lot of misery last year.

[Jasonbay44]

If we weren't signing Ortiz, we should've signed Encarnacion. Moreland as the Papi replacement was a joke

[a700hitter]

If we weren't signing Ortiz, we should've signed Encarnacion. Moreland as the Papi replacement was a joke

Encarnacion lobbied to play with us and Ortiz publicly recommended it at the end of last season. His price was right. It was the Duh move, duhDave didn't make the move.

[BstHcpr]

I caught a lot of grief for suggesting we try this.

 

We could have even signed him to a guaranteed $25M/5 year deal (even if he retired after 2017) to lessen the burden on the luxury tax.

 

Good idea, but I think MLB would void that deal

[Bellhorn04]

That moon is always thinking.

[Spudboy]

If we weren't signing Ortiz, we should've signed Encarnacion. Moreland as the Papi replacement was a joke

 

Encarnacion lobbied to play with us and Ortiz publicly recommended it at the end of last season. His price was right. It was the Duh move, duhDave didn't make the move.

 

 

I agree. Along with almost every Sox fan I know.

 

Still not sure how that would have worked with the cap.

 

Oddly, the market for his services never developed. He signed for seemingly cheap money.

 

I think the Sox never really wanted him. Sort of like Lester in a way.

[jacksonianmarch]

But that's stupid. Encarnacion is made for Fenway. He's not Papi, but he's a major power bat in the middle of the lineup that allows Hanley to hit with a runner on and allows Pedey to see more fastballs. .372 OBP and 22 HR would look great in the Fens. It's probably higher with the ballpark dimensions

[Spudboy]

If we weren't signing Ortiz, we should've signed Encarnacion. Moreland as the Papi replacement was a joke

 

But that's stupid. Encarnacion is made for Fenway. He's not Papi, but he's a major power bat in the middle of the lineup that allows Hanley to hit with a runner on and allows Pedey to see more fastballs. .372 OBP and 22 HR would look great in the Fens. It's probably higher with the ballpark dimensions

 

To be clear you are calling the Sox FO stupid, not me.

 

I would have made him a priority.

[jacksonianmarch]

This is what happens every time the sox are good. The FO thinks that they outsmarted the world and then they change the dynamic and lose. The blueprint changes so often that consistency is impossible. Your offense ran through Papi and letting him go killed it

[jacksonianmarch]

You're not dumb spud. The sox brass are

[Fan_since_Boggs]

We wouldn't have T.Houck if we signed E.Encarncion. Moreover, we would probably be over the luxury tax.

 

But include me in the unimpressed category when it comes to Dombrowski. All he did was (1) trade stud prospects for stars, but anyone can do that. A kid in high school could do that. (2) Trading T.Shaw was a massive blunder, the kind of move that Dombrowski was supposedly too shrewd to make. (3) I'm still waiting for Dombrowski to swing a deal comparable to the shrewd Cashman acquisitions of Chapman, Castro, and Didi.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Spudboy]

The Sox had a productive formula that went away. Instead of attempting to emulate it, they went cheap.

[jacksonianmarch]

So Tanner Houck was worth 3 seasons of EE? If he's on your team this year, you guys are still in first

[Spudboy]

I think what Cashman has done is pretty impressive.

 

I do feel conspicuous in saying that.

 

I would never want to be seen as a Yankee bag lapper.

 

He has got his team back in the hunt with out the old Yankee "open the checkbook" technique.

 

His team is now poised to be a threat for several years and he can fortify the lineup with big name FA at any time.

[jacksonianmarch]

We did get lucky to a degree. We start a second year guy coming off a horrible year and he's an ace. We start a rookie 4th rounder and he turns into the reincarnation of Pettitte. No major offensive upgrades and a rookie coming off a terrible debut becomes an MVP candidate.

[moonslav59]

Well guys, it's quite possible he simply didn't want to play any more. He said his feet were causing him a lot of misery last year.

 

Yes, but near the end of the year, he said his feet felt good.

 

Why not try?

 

To me, it would be a sign of respect to offer him $25M. In some ways he was under payed for many years in Boston. Don't pressure him:

just offer big money and say, "We want you back."

 

(Maybe we did, and it never made the press.)

[moonslav59]

If we weren't signing Ortiz, we should've signed Encarnacion. Moreland as the Papi replacement was a joke

 

It was a Sale for Papi replacement.

[Larry Cook]

The biggest offseason failure was not talking Ortiz back into playing. Signing him for $25 mil for a season might have seen him return. He was your leader. He was also a force offensively

 

Ortiz heels/archilles were causing him pain, not sure they could have lasted another year.

 

Dave knew Ortiz was leaving and his replacement plan was to move Hanley to dh and sign Moreland. What am I missing here. Now we have a powderpuff lineup.

 

We got more 20 home run guys in the minor league system than in Boston.

 

Somebody needs to send dave packing.

[moonslav59]

Ortiz heels/archilles were causing him pain, not sure they could have lasted another year.

 

Dave knew Ortiz was leaving and his replacement plan was to move Hanley to dh and sign Moreland. What am I missing here. Now we have a powderpuff lineup.

 

We got more 20 home run guys in the minor league system than in Boston.

 

Somebody needs to send dave packing.

 

There was more to the plan than just adding Moreland.

 

We added Sale, Thornburg and were expecting full seasons from Beni and others, as well as a return of Carson Smith.

 

I'm not a DD fan, but let's not ignore the full picture.