clubhouse discord?

[Jack Flap]

This is not about clubhouse discord at all BTW. Price said in fact that the one place he's happy is with his teammates.

 

Was just about to point this out.

[dgalehouse]

I'm sure Price knew Boston was a tough media town when he signed on. ( Everyone else does ) Deal with it , David. And pitch better , while you are at it.

[S5Dewey]

This is not about clubhouse discord at all BTW. Price said in fact that the one place he's happy is with his teammates.

 

Call me cynical, but I see what Price is saying is nothing more than spin. What I'm hearing is this. "I love the guys in the clubhouse. It's the rest of you suckers that I hate. The fans, the media, all you f***ers. I can't wait to get out of this Godforsaken city. 2018 can't come soon enough for me."

 

He sees himself as a victim in Boston. A victim of the media, the fans, everyone. That's not going to change until he starts to pitch better and as long as he maintains that attitude the chances of his pitching better are pretty slim.

 

This ball is in your court now David. If you want respect in Boston, earn it. If you can't earn it then don't expect to get it just based on your history.

[Maxbialystock]

Stupid thread title--really stupid. This is a player vs. media issue, about which I have to say the Boston sportswriters appetite for going after ballplayers ain't no secret. You get the big bucks, and you know you will get scrutiny and commentary--see Ted Williams. So I think Price needs to just cool his jets.

 

But I want to say one more thing about Price. Now that he's healthy again and can throw 95-96 mph fastball after fastball, he needs to get smart and stop over-relying on it. Sale had the exactly same problem this season, and it culminated on May 30, when he gave up 6 runs and went just 5 innings in Chicago and then gave up 3 more in the first inning of his next start, June 4, at Baltimore. Sale loved his fastball, and opposing teams loved it almost as much.

 

But a funny thing happened. In the 2d inning at Baltimore, Sales started throwing curves, changeups, etc, and then went five scoreless innings--I'm guessing the longest scoreless inning run since back in April. A good fastball, I would argue, is never enough for a starter. Heck, I'm not even sure it's enough for a reliever.

 

Which leads me to this question: why are the idiot pitching coach and Farrell allowing--maybe even encouraging--this stupid approach to pitching--you know, showing them your heat (Nuke Laloosh). My goodness, even Kimbrel needs that knuckle curve, which he can throw for strikes, to keep the hitter off balance. MLB hitters can in fact hit 100 mph fastballs if they know that's what's coming. Nava did it early in his career against Verlander--got a clean opposite field hard hit single against a 100 mph fastball.

 

Last night I kept saying in the game thread that Price was throwing way too many fastballs and cut fastballs. Now just maybe he couldn't throw his breaking stuff--primarily a changeup and a knuckle curve--with any authority or accuracy. That's possible. But I didn't even see him try until after he'd given up 4 runs.

 

So, yes, Price is screwing up, but he ain't alone. The pitching coach and the manager aren't helping one bit. When Price pitches his side or whatever it's called between starts, he needs to work on his breaking pitches. As soon as he starts mixing up his pitches and just maybe keeping his pitches a little lower in the strike zone--that three run dinger last night was off a changeup dead center in the strike zone--Price can be Price again. Sale has already demonstrated he can use the breaking stuff effectively, and Price needs to follow his example.

[cp176]

well, he is kind of proving our point...isn't he? and it's not just "boston" per se. it's pressure situations. you know...like the postseason. but Boston is a baseball town. so pressure is errryday. and he has shown over and over and over and over and over and over and over again that he's a wilter.

 

You may be right about Price for sure but thinking Boston is the only place that pressure exists is not. Why is it so hard for some players to play in Boston? We are all just more knowledgable fans you think? We care more about our team than any other city in the country maybe? I don't give a s*** at all if he speaks to the media or tweets about what a wonderful experience playing in Boston is. I just want him to pitch better and if he doesn't want to talk to the media or to me, I'm fine with it.

[Spudboy]

I'm a lot more optimistic about Sale's chances of success in Boston because he seems to just do his thing and not give much of a f*** what anyone says or thinks. Price, on the other hand, while he seems like a good guy, lets every bit of external noise seep under his skin and fester there.

 

The best-case scenario for all involved would be for Price to pitch his ass off for the next 1-2/3 seasons and opt out at the end of 2018. He doesn't seem happy with the Boston media or fans, and if he sticks around into his later 30's, with the likelihood of performance declining and injuries mounting as he collects $30 million per year, it's only going to get uglier.

 

So what happens when Sale sucks up the place? Do you believe that he is more mature and able to withstand the scrutiny then? Based on his history I would suspect that he would not handle the adversity well at all.

[illinoisredsox]

So what happens when Sale sucks up the place? Do you believe that he is more mature and able to withstand the scrutiny then? Based on his history I would suspect that he would not handle the adversity well at all.

 

Oh, I'm pretty sure the Boston media is already probing ways to make him snap. Probably started contacting their colleagues at the Sun-Times and Tribune as soon as the trade was made. He'll be safe this season, as they will now gang up on Price. But at some point, they will come after Sale. It's what they do, and it will have little to do with handling adversity.

[MADSTORK]

Stupid thread title--really stupid. This is a player vs. media issue, about which I have to say the Boston sportswriters appetite for going after ballplayers ain't no secret. You get the big bucks, and you know you will get scrutiny and commentary--see Ted Williams. So I think Price needs to just cool his jets.

 

But I want to say one more thing about Price. Now that he's healthy again and can throw 95-96 mph fastball after fastball, he needs to get smart and stop over-relying on it. Sale had the exactly same problem this season, and it culminated on May 30, when he gave up 6 runs and went just 5 innings in Chicago and then gave up 3 more in the first inning of his next start, June 4, at Baltimore. Sale loved his fastball, and opposing teams loved it almost as much.

 

But a funny thing happened. In the 2d inning at Baltimore, Sales started throwing curves, changeups, etc, and then went five scoreless innings--I'm guessing the longest scoreless inning run since back in April. A good fastball, I would argue, is never enough for a starter. Heck, I'm not even sure it's enough for a reliever.

 

Which leads me to this question: why are the idiot pitching coach and Farrell allowing--maybe even encouraging--this stupid approach to pitching--you know, showing them your heat (Nuke Laloosh). My goodness, even Kimbrel needs that knuckle curve, which he can throw for strikes, to keep the hitter off balance. MLB hitters can in fact hit 100 mph fastballs if they know that's what's coming. Nava did it early in his career against Verlander--got a clean opposite field hard hit single against a 100 mph fastball.

 

Last night I kept saying in the game thread that Price was throwing way too many fastballs and cut fastballs. Now just maybe he couldn't throw his breaking stuff--primarily a changeup and a knuckle curve--with any authority or accuracy. That's possible. But I didn't even see him try until after he'd given up 4 runs.

 

So, yes, Price is screwing up, but he ain't alone. The pitching coach and the manager aren't helping one bit. When Price pitches his side or whatever it's called between starts, he needs to work on his breaking pitches. As soon as he starts mixing up his pitches and just maybe keeping his pitches a little lower in the strike zone--that three run dinger last night was off a changeup dead center in the strike zone--Price can be Price again. Sale has already demonstrated he can use the breaking stuff effectively, and Price needs to follow his example.

 

 

You hit the nail on the head. Pitching Coach and Manager!

Lovullo in Arizona doesn't help

[TedWilliams101]

So what happens when Sale sucks up the place? Do you believe that he is more mature and able to withstand the scrutiny then? Based on his history I would suspect that he would not handle the adversity well at all.

 

Sale flipped out on his front office, it had nothing to do with what anyone "thought of him" or dealing with pitching poorly.

 

I can't stand Price taking the "victim" stance and he's just making everything worse for him by making excuses and pretending he doesn't suck. No one wants to hear that you 'won' 2 playoff games, or hear you flat up make up a "success" vs the Yankees, or how you felt fine. The fans wouldn't be on his case a much if he just sacked up and shut up. No matter what, Boston fans will be on you if you don't perform, but it won't go any further than that... unless your a total excuse making cry baby like Price.

[Spudboy]

Sale flipped out on his front office, it had nothing to do with what anyone "thought of him" or dealing with pitching poorly.

 

I can't stand Price taking the "victim" stance and he's just making everything worse for him by making excuses and pretending he doesn't suck. No one wants to hear that you 'won' 2 playoff games, or hear you flat up make up a "success" vs the Yankees, or how you felt fine. The fans wouldn't be on his case a much if he just sacked up and shut up. No matter what, Boston fans will be on you if you don't perform, but it won't go any further than that... unless your a total excuse making cry baby like Price.

 

Thank you. You answered the question.

[notin]

Unless, of course, he get back to his pre-2016 self on the mound. Then Sox fans will be bag lapping him.

 

 

You know, there was a really long stretch during which the 2016 David Price didn't look like a bad option. ...

[Spudboy]

You know, there was a really long stretch during which the 2016 David Price didn't look like a bad option. ...

 

Thankfully you noticed that.

 

That makes two of us.

[Jasonbay44]

If David Price pitched every year of this contract like he did in 2016 I'd be fine with it.

[tombirner]

If David Price pitched every year of this contract like he did in 2016 I'd be fine with it.

 

 

You'd be happy with an ERA of 4.00, several losing streaks, and getting shelled in the playoffs? For thirty million? Utterly bizarre.

 

Price has been a bust so far, there really is no counter-argument to this. His numbers are that of a #3 at best, he missed significant time with an injury that could be a concern for the future, and now he's throwing temper tantrums in the clubhouse. There's really no positive spin you can put on this. So far the signing has been a huge mistake.

[Jack Flap]

So what happens when Sale sucks up the place? Do you believe that he is more mature and able to withstand the scrutiny then? Based on his history I would suspect that he would not handle the adversity well at all.

 

Are we talking about the jersey incident here? Because that (and the affair with LaRoche's kid) just tells me that he's hot-headed and doesn't have much patience with what he sees as the front office f***ing up, not really that he can't handle performance-related scrutiny or criticism. There's a difference, no?

 

But you're right that we haven't really seen Sale go through any true adversity here in Boston yet, so I don't think we can reasonably say how he will react. And I'm probably guilty here of something I usually try to avoid -- namely, making unfounded assumptions about players based on the limited picture we get from their public statements and actions. But Price does come across as particularly thin-skinned and easily rattled (I don't really think he's dealing with anything different from what various other Red Sox stars have faced over the years), and after the incidents in New York, it's difficult not to think it's going to fester into a greater problem if he doesn't figure out a better way to cope with the scrutiny.

[Kimmi]

Sale flipped out on his front office, it had nothing to do with what anyone "thought of him" or dealing with pitching poorly.

 

I can't stand Price taking the "victim" stance and he's just making everything worse for him by making excuses and pretending he doesn't suck. No one wants to hear that you 'won' 2 playoff games, or hear you flat up make up a "success" vs the Yankees, or how you felt fine. The fans wouldn't be on his case a much if he just sacked up and shut up. No matter what, Boston fans will be on you if you don't perform, but it won't go any further than that... unless your a total excuse making cry baby like Price.

 

In defense of Price, the entire season last year, he owned up to his performances. He didn't make any excuses.

 

That said, he does seem overly sensitive. I think he needs to stay off of Twitter. The team should ban him from social media. That seems to be the source of most of his angst.

[Jasonbay44]

You'd be happy with an ERA of 4.00, several losing streaks, and getting shelled in the playoffs? For thirty million? Utterly bizarre.

 

Price has been a bust so far, there really is no counter-argument to this. His numbers are that of a #3 at best, he missed significant time with an injury that could be a concern for the future, and now he's throwing temper tantrums in the clubhouse. There's really no positive spin you can put on this. So far the signing has been a huge mistake.

17 wins, 230 innings, ERA of 3.99, WHIP of 1.20 and 227 strikeouts is a bust? Yeah okay. This signing had to be made due to a certain GM f***ing up the Lester situation and leaving us with massive holes in the rotation. If Price pitched every year of this contract, provided a 3 WAR, continues to eat innings and pitch above average, yeah, I'd be okay with it. Regardless of what Price did/does he was going to be labeled a bust by most people just due to the contract he signed.

[tombirner]

17 wins, 230 innings, ERA of 3.99, WHIP of 1.20 and 227 strikeouts is a bust? Yeah okay. This signing had to be made due to a certain GM f***ing up the Lester situation and leaving us with massive holes in the rotation. If Price pitched every year of this contract, provided a 3 WAR, continues to eat innings and pitch above average, yeah, I'd be okay with it. Regardless of what Price did/does he was going to be labeled a bust by most people just due to the contract he signed.

 

Maybe "bust" was too strong a word, but those numbers, specifically the ERA, along with his playoff performance, and now the possibility that he is becoming a distraction, are absolutely not worth 30 million. Come on, dude. He's been disappointing. if the Sox front brass could get rid of him for thirty million a year going forward, I almost guarantee they would.

 

I believe he is the highest paid pitcher in baseball... he's not remotely the best pitcher in baseball and has regressed significantly since signing the contract. How on earth can you be happy with that?

Edited June 12, 2017 by tombirner

[dustcover]

"Stupid thread title--really stupid."

 

I thought the question mark would clearly indicate that I was questioning whether there existed any discord in the clubhouse. Apparently I was mistaken! But at least it elicited a number of responses, including yours, making the post a reasonable discussion.

Edited June 11, 2017 by dustcover

[Slasher9]

17 wins, 230 innings, ERA of 3.99, WHIP of 1.20 and 227 strikeouts is a bust? Yeah okay. This signing had to be made due to a certain GM f***ing up the Lester situation and leaving us with massive holes in the rotation. If Price pitched every year of this contract, provided a 3 WAR, continues to eat innings and pitch above average, yeah, I'd be okay with it. Regardless of what Price did/does he was going to be labeled a bust by most people just due to the contract he signed.

yes, a bust.

if he's choking on his own self in year 1 and year 2 of the 7 year contract....what do you think we are going to be seeing years 4, 5, 6, & 7???

as for "having" to get price...there were other options...we could have had someone like Cueto for 65% of the salary.

[mvp 78]

It's been reported that Price got into a heated exchange with a member of the media in the clubhouse following Wednesday night's game at Yankee stadium. Apparently a very serious confrontation. Does anyone know who Price's antagonist was?

 

f*** those media snowflakes. It's a non-story.

[Kimmi]

17 wins, 230 innings, ERA of 3.99, WHIP of 1.20 and 227 strikeouts is a bust? Yeah okay. This signing had to be made due to a certain GM f***ing up the Lester situation and leaving us with massive holes in the rotation. If Price pitched every year of this contract, provided a 3 WAR, continues to eat innings and pitch above average, yeah, I'd be okay with it. Regardless of what Price did/does he was going to be labeled a bust by most people just due to the contract he signed.

 

I disagree with that statement. The large majority of people had no issues with the contract given to Price.

 

Price was nowhere near a bust last year. He was disappointing, for sure, because we expected him to be our ace, and he did not perform to that level. However, he still put up decent numbers and contributed 4.5 fWAR. And I say that as one who was not a fan of the signing.

[S5Dewey]

I disagree with that statement. The large majority of people had no issues with the contract given to Price.

 

Price was nowhere near a bust last year. He was disappointing, for sure, because we expected him to be our ace, and he did not perform to that level. However, he still put up decent numbers and contributed 4.5 fWAR. And I say that as one who was not a fan of the signing.

 

IMO @$31M Price was going to be overpaid no matter what he did last year. That being said I wasn't terribly disappointed in last year's regular season performance. Of course his post season game is another story.

[Bellhorn04]

I disagree with that statement. The large majority of people had no issues with the contract given to Price.

 

Yes and no IMO. I think most people thought of the Price contract as a sort of necessary evil - that we were forced to fork over because our rotation was so weak. But for $31 million a year he was expected to at least perform to his career averages.

[mvp 78]

I don't care about Price's contract. It's the cost of doing business and not having any high end arms in the minors.