2017 Rotation Discussion

[mvp 78]

Coulda swore I read it on MLBTR, but it's not there (anymore?).

 

Maybe it was just a vivid nightmare.

 

Yesterday, someone asked what the plan would be for the rotation if they brought in another SP. I responded with "Price to 60 day DL and Fister to DFA." I wasn't trying to infer that he's on the 60 day DL now, just that it would be my plan if I was in charge.

[Jack Flap]

We just don't have the pieces to compete with the Yankees in a trade.

 

I would not want to get in a prospect bidding war with them.

 

How things have changed in a couple of years.

[mvp 78]

@BillKoch25

 

Brian Johnson (left shoulder inflammation) out early throwing in the bullpen. #PawSox manager Kevin Boles said Johnson could start Saturday.

 

Johnson could take over for Fister, but Fister will get at least one more look after his last performance.

[Kimmi]

Weird stat on Sale

Games he gives up less than 3 earned runs

Sale is 6-3, Sox are 8-5

Games he gives up 3 or more earned runs

Sale is 7-1, Sox are 8-1

 

Go figure.

 

Maybe that's the problem with our offense. Our pitchers have been too good and our offense thinks they can coast.

[Kimmi]

How things have changed in a couple of years.

 

They sure have. If the Sox can win a World Series (or 3) during our 'window', then I will deem it all a success.

[moonslav59]

Yesterday, someone asked what the plan would be for the rotation if they brought in another SP. I responded with "Price to 60 day DL and Fister to DFA." I wasn't trying to infer that he's on the 60 day DL now, just that it would be my plan if I was in charge.

 

Maybe that's where I read it.

 

I'm glad he's not on the 60-day.

[SoxnCycles]

They sure have. If the Sox can win a World Series (or 3) during our 'window', then I will deem it all a success.

 

Good to see you're not being greedy or anything.

[SoxnCycles]

Maybe that's where I read it.

 

I'm glad he's not on the 60-day.

 

Too bad MLB doesn't have IR.

[Bellhorn04]

Good to see you're not being greedy or anything.

 

Funny how that 'playoffs are a crapshoot' thing sometimes seems to get tossed out the window.

[Kimmi]

Good to see you're not being greedy or anything.

 

I have high expectations.

[Kimmi]

Funny how that 'playoffs are a crapshoot' thing sometimes seems to get tossed out the window.

 

What are you even talking about?

[SoxnCycles]

I have high expectations.

 

A positive outlook is always underappreciated!

[Kimmi]

A positive outlook is always underappreciated!

 

LOL I have to admit that there are times when this team has made it very difficult to remain positive.

[SoxnCycles]

LOL I have to admit that there are times when this team has made it very difficult to remain positive.

 

Yup,it's been tough to warm up to this team this summer.

[Kimmi]

If I read correctly this morning, our pitchers are all being pushed back a day in their starts. Subsequently, if the rotation then stays on turn, Sale will not pitch against the Yankees in our next series with them.

 

Memo to Farrell: Fix this!

[Kimmi]

Yup,it's been tough to warm up to this team this summer.

 

Short sample, but things are again looking up!

[SoxnCycles]

If I read correctly this morning, our pitchers are all being pushed back a day in their starts. Subsequently, if the rotation then stays on turn, Sale will not pitch against the Yankees in our next series with them.

 

Memo to Farrell: Fix this!

 

Nah, Fister can handle the Yankees!

[Kimmi]

Nah, Fister can handle the Yankees!

 

LOL, well considering the series against the Guardians, maybe Farrell is on to something.

[Bellhorn04]

What are you even talking about?

 

Kimmi, I was just joking about the idea of winning a World Series (or 3) during our window.

 

It's been said, not just by you, that doing this is the only thing that can really justify an approach like Dombrowski's.

 

And yet on the other hand it's also frequently said, not just by you, that the playoffs are a crapshoot. Which of course means that we could make the playoffs 4 years in a row and win no titles.

 

That's really all I'm getting at.

[moonslav59]

Kimmi, I was just joking about the idea of winning a World Series (or 3) during our window.

 

It's been said, not just by you, that doing this is the only thing that can really justify an approach like Dombrowski's.

 

And yet on the other hand it's also frequently said, not just by you, that the playoffs are a crapshoot. Which of course means that we could make the playoffs 4 years in a row and win no titles.

 

That's really all I'm getting at.

 

And, that is why putting all of your marbles into a 3 year window at the highly probable expense of the following 3 years is what bothers some posters like Kimmi and myself. Even if these bold moves by DD made us the prohibitive favorites over the next 3 years (which they haven't), it's still largely a crap shoot.

 

3 crap shoots are better than none as we might not have even made the playoffs at all without some of his moves, and maybe "the cliff" is just a mirage, but DD has certainly gone for broke with this window.

 

[Kimmi]

Kimmi, I was just joking about the idea of winning a World Series (or 3) during our window.

 

It's been said, not just by you, that doing this is the only thing that can really justify an approach like Dombrowski's.

 

And yet on the other hand it's also frequently said, not just by you, that the playoffs are a crapshoot. Which of course means that we could make the playoffs 4 years in a row and win no titles.

 

That's really all I'm getting at.

 

The playoffs being a crap shoot is one of the biggest reasons why I'm so against the 'win now at any cost' philosophy. I have never tossed that idea out the window. Going all out to win guarantees nothing, and because of that, I don't think an approach like Dombrowski's is justified or worth it at the expense of the long term.

 

If it turns out that we win a World Series (or 3), then in hindsight, the moves will have been justified.

[Kimmi]

And, that is why putting all of your marbles into a 3 year window at the highly probable expense of the following 3 years is what bothers some posters like Kimmi and myself. Even if these bold moves by DD made us the prohibitive favorites over the next 3 years (which they haven't), it's still largely a crap shoot.

 

3 crap shoots are better than none as we might not have even made the playoffs at all without some of his moves, and maybe "the cliff" is just a mirage, but DD has certainly gone for broke with this window.

 

Exactly what I was trying to say. I think that we could have entered the crap shoot without going for broke and limiting ourselves to a 3 year window.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm not really so sure we did 'go for broke'. Obviously we did trade a lot of prospects but in some respects the team has actually shown some restraint - not going over the luxury tax limit and not making any big deals at the deadline. Also, Dombrowski has done next to nothing when it comes to adding bats - all his major moves have been for pitching.

[Kimmi]

I'm not really so sure we did 'go for broke'. Obviously we did trade a lot of prospects but in some respects the team has actually shown some restraint - not going over the luxury tax limit and not making any big deals at the deadline. Also, Dombrowski has done next to nothing when it comes to adding bats - all his major moves have been for pitching.

 

Because we really didn't have the need to add bats.

 

Also, keep in mind that the window is not just this year. The window is open for another 2, possibly 3 years. Resetting the cap versus not has huge implications for the next 2 years.

[mvp 78]

I'm not really so sure we did 'go for broke'. Obviously we did trade a lot of prospects but in some respects the team has actually shown some restraint - not going over the luxury tax limit and not making any big deals at the deadline. Also, Dombrowski has done next to nothing when it comes to adding bats - all his major moves have been for pitching.

 

Yup, this is the biggest indicator to me that they didn't go all out for this year.

[mvp 78]

Because we really didn't have the need to add bats.

 

Also, keep in mind that the window is not just this year. The window is open for another 2, possibly 3 years. Resetting the cap versus not has huge implications for the next 2 years.

 

This team has had a putrid offense this year. They've needed bats more this year than any other.

[moonslav59]

I'm not really so sure we did 'go for broke'. Obviously we did trade a lot of prospects but in some respects the team has actually shown some restraint - not going over the luxury tax limit and not making any big deals at the deadline. Also, Dombrowski has done next to nothing when it comes to adding bats - all his major moves have been for pitching.

 

We didn't trade Devers, because he is part of the "3 year window" plan. I'm not sure I'd call that restraint.

 

Travis might be a 1B solution for year 2 and 3.

 

Groome might be Pom's replacement for year 3.

 

I suppose DD could have traded Mata, Houck and other far away prospects for a bat, but I doubt they would be enough for a difference maker.

[Bellhorn04]

We didn't trade Devers, because he is part of the "3 year window" plan. I'm not sure I'd call that restraint.

 

Travis might be a 1B solution for year 2 and 3.

 

Groome might be Pom's replacement for year 3.

 

I suppose DD could have traded Mata, Houck and other far away prospects for a bat, but I doubt they would be enough for a difference maker.

 

I didn't specifically mention Devers, but he's a long term asset, is he not?

 

The fact is that a lot of people were howling for a trade for a bat and none happened.

[dgalehouse]

The playoffs may be a crapshoot , but you can't win the World Series without going through the playoffs. Being in the playoffs should always be the goal. It means you had an interesting and exciting season with a chance to win it all. Who wants to sit through dismal, non-competitive seasons , hoping that the prospects we are holding onto may someday get us to the playoffs ?

[cp176]

And, that is why putting all of your marbles into a 3 year window at the highly probable expense of the following 3 years is what bothers some posters like Kimmi and myself. Even if these bold moves by DD made us the prohibitive favorites over the next 3 years (which they haven't), it's still largely a crap shoot.

 

3 crap shoots are better than none as we might not have even made the playoffs at all without some of his moves, and maybe "the cliff" is just a mirage, but DD has certainly gone for broke with this window.

 

 

and what bothers some posters ( i might be the only one ) is that this whole idea of a "3 year window" has been even a created concept. I do not believe that there is nor will there be any such thing. Before you force feed ( don't take that personally) me your stats that you and some think might prove your point, let it suffice to say that I am not buying it. I do not see DD's moves as going for broke. i do not see them as panic or desperation moves and I do not think that he left our system bankrupt. It is all in what you believe and quite possibly what you want to see. I might be the only one here who thinks this way and that is ok too. I see his moves as being calculated and rational with a healthy dose of common sense added in to the mix.