Opening day batting order?

[cp176]

Really --- what the hell is wrong with Leon? Do you all really think that he will just suck? I don't. I see him as the better of the two catchers - Vazquez and Leon- going forward. There is nothing that Vazquez has done or might do that puts him ahead of Leon. There is a years difference between the two catchers for Christ's sake. Leon is better than Vazquez and will continue to be better than Vazquez. The unknown is Swihart. Before I would ever consider a trade of Leon, I would have to have a guy ready step in to his place that was his equal if not better. That could be Swihart but it is very doubtful that it would ever be Vazquez.

[Wade Boggs]

I'd be down for that when/if the time comes. All this goes without saying that if both Vaz & Swi closely live up to their potential. That's the prerequisite. If our BP is fine by then, I'd take a decent far away prospect back for the Leon and Abad too.

 

I doubt you could get a decent BP arm for Leon. If they could they might have already done it. The way DD gets pitching unless it's Sale it usually ends up on the DL.

[Wade Boggs]

Really --- what the hell is wrong with Leon? Do you all really think that he will just suck? I don't. I see him as the better of the two catchers - Vazquez and Leon- going forward. There is nothing that Vazquez has done or might do that puts him ahead of Leon. There is a years difference between the two catchers for Christ's sake. Leon is better than Vazquez and will continue to be better than Vazquez. The unknown is Swihart. Before I would ever consider a trade of Leon, I would have to have a guy ready step in to his place that was his equal if not better. That could be Swihart but it is very doubtful that it would ever be Vazquez.

 

if it's the Leon the first two months... Yes . If it's the Leon the last four weeks of the regular season he hit 0.44.. No

The pitchers are comfortable with him calling the game so that's all good for now. I just hope he wasn't a player they should have sold high on. IMO

[Emp9]

Really --- what the hell is wrong with Leon? Do you all really think that he will just suck? I don't. I see him as the better of the two catchers - Vazquez and Leon- going forward. There is nothing that Vazquez has done or might do that puts him ahead of Leon. There is a years difference between the two catchers for Christ's sake. Leon is better than Vazquez and will continue to be better than Vazquez. The unknown is Swihart. Before I would ever consider a trade of Leon, I would have to have a guy ready step in to his place that was his equal if not better. That could be Swihart but it is very doubtful that it would ever be Vazquez.

 

I always very much liked Leon for what he was, nice depth in case of an injury, with a chance for him to improve. What he did last year was amazing, but I'm not so sure it's sustainable. It's anyone's guess who the real Leon is a this point. I never once scuffed at Leon like some though.

 

On Vazquez, I think we brought him back too early last year, him just coming off recovering from TJS. I thought it'd be another 2-3 months before we saw him again. For me, the clock starts now with Vaz.

 

I might like Swihart the most out of all three and to most extents I still view him as a prospect. I would still have him just a valuable as Moncada if he was still with the team, and some will disagree on that... and that's ok.

 

All three have unknown ceilings right now. I'm rooting for all three.

 

"Before I would ever consider a trade of Leon, I would have to have a guy ready step in to his place that was his equal if not better."

 

I agree wholeheartedly. It's just fun to speculate on certain scenarios sometimes, however unlikely.

[Emp9]

I doubt you could get a decent BP arm for Leon. If they could they might have already done it. The way DD gets pitching unless it's Sale it usually ends up on the DL.

 

We can't develop pitching and now we can't trade for pitching. Tha's a bit bleak. lol

[cp176]

if it's the Leon the first two months... Yes . If it's the Leon the last four weeks of the regular season he hit 0.44.. No

The pitchers are comfortable with him calling the game so that's all good for now. I just hope he wasn't a player they should have sold high on. IMO

 

We will see how he performs but it is highly unlikely in my opinion that Vazquez outhits him. Leon is every bit as good a catcher as Vazquez.

[Wade Boggs]

We will see how he performs but it is highly unlikely in my opinion that Vazquez outhits him. Leon is every bit as good a catcher as Vazquez.

 

 

That's fair. But if Vazquez is recovered from his injury he may be better on D. He had a very quick release. That's why they are high on him. I just think Vaz/ Swihart are the future of the team. I agree with you a tad. I agree Leon should start for the time being. What is good for the TEAM.

[cp176]

That's fair. But if Vazquez is recovered from his injury he may be better on D. He had a very quick release. That's why they are high on him. I just think Vaz/ Swihart are the future of the team. I agree with you a tad. I agree Leon should start for the time being. What is good for the TEAM.

 

you have a very fair arguement here as well. i just have never been able to figure out the over the top love for Vazquez. i like him and his potential as much as anyone. i've read all of the reports as well. i think that Leon is as good a catcher in all phases of the catching department and I think that he will outhit Vaz as well.

[mvp 78]

How much trade value do Christian Vazquez, Sandy Leon and Blake Swihart have?

 

Steamer600, which assumes 450 plate appearances for each catcher but 600 plate appearances for Swihart, projects 2017 WAR of 1.6 for Vazquez, 1.6 for Leon and 0.4 for Swihart:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/projections.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&type=steamer600&team=3&lg=all&players=0&sort=27,d

 

Vazquez and Leon would rank 35th and 36th among all catchers in the Steamer600 projections (which, again, assume 450 plate appearances for each catcher regardless of the projected plate appearances):

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/projections.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&type=steamer600&team=0&lg=all&players=0&sort=27%2cd

 

The FanGraphs 2017 profile of Swihart points out the red flags:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=13176&position=C

 

. There's a scenario where he could make the roster as a fifth outfielder/third catcher, and a scenario where he shows up to camp and forces his way into a more prominent catching role. But it's hard to envision these scenarios turning out well without wearing rose-colored glasses. Swihart has shown he can turn a ball into a hit if he makes contact, but he has combined an above-average strikeout rate with a well-below-average power profile. That's not a recipe for success. He'll still be just 25 this year and he lost more than half a season to injury, so he's not quite a lost cause, but he's getting close.

 

WOOF...

[Fisk]

. There's a scenario where he could make the roster as a fifth outfielder/third catcher, and a scenario where he shows up to camp and forces his way into a more prominent catching role. But it's hard to envision these scenarios turning out well without wearing rose-colored glasses. Swihart has shown he can turn a ball into a hit if he makes contact, but he has combined an above-average strikeout rate with a well-below-average power profile. That's not a recipe for success. He'll still be just 25 this year and he lost more than half a season to injury, so he's not quite a lost cause, but he's getting close.

 

WOOF...

 

I rather listen to the scouts and Gms who have been trying to trade for him.

[Kimmi]

you have a very fair arguement here as well. i just have never been able to figure out the over the top love for Vazquez. i like him and his potential as much as anyone. i've read all of the reports as well. i think that Leon is as good a catcher in all phases of the catching department and I think that he will outhit Vaz as well.

 

I have over the top love for Vazquez based on what I saw from him in 2014. I believe that he can be a truly elite defender.

 

This is not to take anything away from Leon. I was one of the few people here that was quite glad and relieved that we were able to acquire him when Vaz got injured.

 

It comes down to which catcher will provide the most overall value, but for me, defense always comes first with the catching position. Any offense that a catcher provides is gravy. If it were up to me, I'd still have Varitek on the team.

[cp176]

I have over the top love for Vazquez based on what I saw from him in 2014. I believe that he can be a truly elite defender.

 

This is not to take anything away from Leon. I was one of the few people here that was quite glad and relieved that we were able to acquire him when Vaz got injured.

 

It comes down to which catcher will provide the most overall value, but for me, defense always comes first with the catching position. Any offense that a catcher provides is gravy. If it were up to me, I'd still have Varitek on the team.

 

I don't think that there is any question that Vazquez will be on the team. If I thought that he was a better defender than Leon, I would want to see their roles reversed. I think that on our team, he is the back up guy. If he outhits Leon, he quite probably could become the everyday guy. Defensively, I call it a wash between them.

[mvp 78]

Look who's batting 5th in today's line up:

 

@PeteAbe

 

Pedroia 2B,

Benintendi LF,

Betts RF,

Ramirez DH,

Sandoval 3B,

Bogaerts SS,

Bradley Jr. CF,

Vazquez C,

Holt 1B,

 

Kendrick RHP

[Thunder]

Look who's batting 5th in today's line up:

 

@PeteAbe

 

Pedroia 2B,

Benintendi LF,

Betts RF,

Ramirez DH,

Sandoval 3B,

Bogaerts SS,

Bradley Jr. CF,

Vazquez C,

Holt 1B,

 

Kendrick RHP

 

I really like the look of that lineup. Does Sandoval fall down to 6th when Moreland is in the lineup? Plus, Leon in the 8th slot makes an almost lethal lineup IMO.

[mvp 78]

I really like the look of that lineup. Does Sandoval fall down to 6th when Moreland is in the lineup? Plus, Leon in the 8th slot makes an almost lethal lineup IMO.

 

I like this lineup too. However, I think the lineup should be:

 

Sandoval

Betts

Benintendi

Pedroia

Hanley

JBJ

Bogey

Holt

Vaz

[Thunder]

I like this lineup too. However, I think the lineup should be:

 

Sandoval

Betts

Benintendi

Pedroia

Hanley

JBJ

Bogey

Holt

Vaz

 

No, that's going too far. Can't have a non power hitter batting cleanup. With those particular set of players in the lineup, it should be:

 

Pedey ®

Bogaerts ®

Mookie ®

Hanley ®

Sandoval (S)

Benintendi (L)

JBJ (L)

Vazquez ®

Holt (L)

 

I know the top is too right heavy, but I don't want to mess with the dynamic that we had going in the second half of the year with Pedey, Xander, and Mookie.

[mvp 78]

Thunder, EVEN THE WORST LINEUP A MANAGER COULD MAKE WOULD ONLY ACCOUNT FOR 10 RUNS OVER THE COURSE OF THE SEASON... Or something like that.

[Thunder]

Thunder, EVEN THE WORST LINEUP A MANAGER COULD MAKE WOULD ONLY ACCOUNT FOR 10 RUNS OVER THE COURSE OF THE SEASON... Or something like that.

 

Tell that to my coach.

[mvp 78]

Tell that to my coach.

 

Is he on old guy twitter?

[Thunder]

No, but if you type "AJ Pollock" enough times, he'll eventually track you down.

[Kimmi]

Thunder, EVEN THE WORST LINEUP A MANAGER COULD MAKE WOULD ONLY ACCOUNT FOR 10 RUNS OVER THE COURSE OF THE SEASON... Or something like that.

 

If you are going to mockingly quote what I say, at least quote me correctly.

[mvp 78]

If you are going to mockingly quote what I say, at least quote me correctly.

 

Have you said that before?

[Kimmi]

Have you said that before?

 

I have not, hence the 'quote me correctly".

 

You are quoting nonsense, and we both know that I don't post nonsense.

[rkarp1]

I prefer my best hitter in the #2 hole, and at this moment I think that would be Betts

 

Pedroia

Betts

Boegarts

Hanley

Bennitendi

Young/Moreland

Sandoval

Vaz

JBJ

[oldtimer]

No, that's going too far. Can't have a non power hitter batting cleanup. With those particular set of players in the lineup, it should be:

 

Pedey ®

Bogaerts ®

Mookie ®

Hanley ®

Sandoval (S)

Benintendi (L)

JBJ (L)

Vazquez ®

Holt (L)

 

I know the top is too right heavy, but I don't want to mess with the dynamic that we had going in the second half of the year with Pedey, Xander, and Mookie.

 

Xander was in a slump last year. Put Beni up second.

[Fisk]

I prefer my best hitter in the #2 hole, and at this moment I think that would be Betts

 

Pedroia

Betts

Boegarts

Hanley

Bennitendi

Young/Moreland

Sandoval

Vaz

JBJ

First 4 batters are righties next three are lefties, that won't work.

[Kimmi]

I prefer my best hitter in the #2 hole, and at this moment I think that would be Betts

 

Pedroia

Betts

Boegarts

Hanley

Bennitendi

Young/Moreland

Sandoval

Vaz

JBJ

 

Not sure that I agree completely, but your idea that the best hitter should hit 2nd makes a whole lot more sense than having him hit 3rd.

[moonslav59]

Not sure that I agree completely, but your idea that the best hitter should hit 2nd makes a whole lot more sense than having him hit 3rd.

 

A "whole lot"?

 

I thought you said it made little difference.

[moonslav59]

I prefer my best hitter in the #2 hole, and at this moment I think that would be Betts

 

Pedroia

Betts

Boegarts

Hanley

Bennitendi

Young/Moreland

Sandoval

Vaz

JBJ

 

Bogey might be the 6th or 7th best hitter vs RHPs in this line-up.

 

Why put him up 3rd?

[Thunder]

Xander was in a slump last year. Put Beni up second.

 

I realize that Benintendi will be hitting second, but I still like Bogaerts in that spot, even though it makes more sense for Benintendi to bat there, so that a left handed bat can be up in the top.