Mookie and the MVP

[sk7326]

Vegas has Ortiz 2 to 1 leading the way

 

which would be an emotionally satisfying, gratifying and VERY shaky outcome.

[devildavid]

which would be an emotionally satisfying, gratifying and VERY shaky outcome.

 

Not a shaky outcome at all. Ortiz is very valuable to the success of this team.

[SoxnCycles]

which would be an emotionally satisfying, gratifying and VERY shaky outcome.

 

What's shaky about it, the lack of defense or that it might look like a parting gift?

[sk7326]

What's shaky about it, the lack of defense or that it might look like a parting gift?

 

1. The lack of defense

2. I am for DH's being recognized as legitimate. But the threshhold has to be high, and Ortiz - who has been completely outstanding - has not lapped the field offensively enough to make up for the lack of contribution in other areas. Plus, he has played considerably less than other candidates - due to managing his feet.

 

To me, it's Trout or Betts ... with Altuve and Donaldson a step down but totally reasonable.

[sk7326]

Not a shaky outcome at all. Ortiz is very valuable to the success of this team.

 

Betts is even more ... and Bogaerts, Bradley and Pedroia have very legitimate claims ...

[SoxnCycles]

1. The lack of defense

2. I am for DH's being recognized as legitimate. But the threshhold has to be high, and Ortiz - who has been completely outstanding - has not lapped the field offensively enough to make up for the lack of contribution in other areas. Plus, he has played considerably less than other candidates - due to managing his feet.

 

To me, it's Trout or Betts ... with Altuve and Donaldson a step down but totally reasonable.

 

Makes sense.

[devildavid]

Betts is even more ... and Bogaerts, Bradley and Pedroia have very legitimate claims ...

 

Ortiz is not only performing great, he is the heart and soul of the team. That counts for plenty in my book.

[User Name]

You don't vote for MVP.

[Kimmi]

Ortiz is not only performing great, he is the heart and soul of the team. That counts for plenty in my book.

 

I think Ortiz is most definitely a legitimate MVP candidate. His numbers are great, but he brings so much more to the team beyond that.

[sk7326]

I think Ortiz is most definitely a legitimate MVP candidate. His numbers are great, but he brings so much more to the team beyond that.

 

It might be true - but I could construct a similar fuzzy story for Betts, for Pedroia, for Bogaerts - and all have contributed more than Ortiz has ... none of this denigrates Papi's season - which has been the best Age 40 season in history (certainly in the short list).

 

I certainly believe that a DH can be an MVP - but since offense is the only thing he can touch in terms of helping the team win, that offense has to carry a lot of weight. That is hard to do - this century only Barry Bonds and ARod delivered that kind of performance.

[oldtimer]

It might be true - but I could construct a similar fuzzy story for Betts, for Pedroia, for Bogaerts - and all have contributed more than Ortiz has ... none of this denigrates Papi's season - which has been the best Age 40 season in history (certainly in the short list).

 

I certainly believe that a DH can be an MVP - but since offense is the only thing he can touch in terms of helping the team win, that offense has to carry a lot of weight. That is hard to do - this century only Barry Bonds and ARod delivered that kind of performance.

 

With the assistance of steroids.

[sk7326]

With the assistance of steroids.

 

I tend not to figure that in too much because:

 

1. It is hard to peg individuals without verification (and if two people did it in one season, the performance gap is still legitimate)

2. Baseball is hard

[devildavid]

It might be true - but I could construct a similar fuzzy story for Betts, for Pedroia, for Bogaerts - and all have contributed more than Ortiz has ... none of this denigrates Papi's season - which has been the best Age 40 season in history (certainly in the short list).

 

I certainly believe that a DH can be an MVP - but since offense is the only thing he can touch in terms of helping the team win, that offense has to carry a lot of weight. That is hard to do - this century only Barry Bonds and ARod delivered that kind of performance.

 

It's not a fuzzy story at all. Ortiz is a leader. No one has contributed more than him this season.

[S5Dewey]

It's not a fuzzy story at all. Ortiz is a leader. No one has contributed more than him this season.

 

This goes into the intangibles and is something I agree with.

 

I've admittedly not seen a lot of games played by the other teams in MLB this year but I've seen probably 125+ Sox games and in just about every game I see some leadership and/or mentoring by Papi. That's not to say that others on other teams may have been doing the same thing but Papi's clubhouse and dugout contributions combined with his on-field performance make me believe that regardless of what the voters say David Ortiz IS the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER to his team in baseball in 2016. And since the Sox have finished first in the toughest division in baseball he, by extension, is the most valuable player in baseball this year.

 

JMO!

[User Name]

It's not a fuzzy story at all. Ortiz is a leader. No one has contributed more than him this season.

 

It's a fuzzy story. I love Ortiz and wish he'd win, but he doesn't deserve it. His plate contributions aren't enough to overcome Bett's contributions on defense and excellent baserunning. He's not even the MVP of this team, let alone the AL.

 

#BettsForMVP

[moonslav59]

It's a fuzzy story. I love Ortiz and wish he'd win, but he doesn't deserve it. His plate contributions aren't enough to overcome Bett's contributions on defense and excellent baserunning. He's not even the MVP of this team, let alone the AL.

 

#BettsForMVP

 

Agreed.

 

It's close though, in my mind.

[sk7326]

With the assistance of steroids.

 

also the PED thing opens up a can of worms which is not a good idea

[sk7326]

It's a fuzzy story. I love Ortiz and wish he'd win, but he doesn't deserve it. His plate contributions aren't enough to overcome Bett's contributions on defense and excellent baserunning. He's not even the MVP of this team, let alone the AL.

 

#BettsForMVP

 

there are only two reasonable candidates - Betts is the only one without a fish in his name

[devildavid]

Ortiz is the man in 2016. He came out of the gate strong and stayed strong. He is the MVP.

 

No one has mentioned Pedroia but he is a close second or third. He has had one of his best seasons and played strong from start to finish. He is the forgotten man in all this MVP talk.

 

Yes, Mookie is deserving too. But the two stalwart veterans really performed consistently at a high level all season while the youngsters were wowing the fans.

[moonslav59]

Ortiz is the man in 2016. He came out of the gate strong and stayed strong. He is the MVP.

 

No one has mentioned Pedroia but he is a close second or third. He has had one of his best seasons and played strong from start to finish. He is the forgotten man in all this MVP talk.

 

Yes, Mookie is deserving too. But the two stalwart veterans really performed consistently at a high level all season while the youngsters were wowing the fans.

 

Betts has hit and fielded and run better than Pedey.

 

It's not close there.

 

I can see the Papi argument, and maybe a DH should win once.

 

I wonder if Papi's retirement will lead some to vote for him out of some sort of "lifetime achievement" sentiment.

[devildavid]

Betts has hit and fielded and run better than Pedey.

 

It's not close there.

 

I can see the Papi argument, and maybe a DH should win once.

 

I wonder if Papi's retirement will lead some to vote for him out of some sort of "lifetime achievement" sentiment.

 

I think Ortiz deserves it for this season alone. Pedroia has been a key player in his own way.

[moonslav59]

I think Ortiz deserves it for this season alone. Pedroia has been a key player in his own way.

 

Yes, very key, but not close to the MVP of the team, let alone the league.

[mvp 78]

I believe Vegas has give Ortiz the best odds to win the MVP. Not sure how well Vegas has faired previously.

[moonslav59]

I believe Vegas has give Ortiz the best odds to win the MVP. Not sure how well Vegas has faired previously.

 

Interesting, Papi is 7th on the team in WAR:

 

7.7 Betts

5.2 Pedey

5.1 JBJ

5.1 Porcello

4.6 Bogey

4.5 Price

4.3 Ortiz

 

Take away the defense, and he's still 2nd to Betts:

 

41.o Betts

36.4 Ortiz

21.3 JBJ

17.9 Ramirez

16.8 Bogey

13.3 Pedey

7.2 Young

7.0 Leon

3.4 Beni

-0.2 Holt

-7.3 Hill

-9.3 Shaw

-11.0 Hanigan

-11.7 Vazquez

 

 

[Kimmi]

Ortiz is the man in 2016. He came out of the gate strong and stayed strong. He is the MVP.

 

No one has mentioned Pedroia but he is a close second or third. He has had one of his best seasons and played strong from start to finish. He is the forgotten man in all this MVP talk.

 

Yes, Mookie is deserving too. But the two stalwart veterans really performed consistently at a high level all season while the youngsters were wowing the fans.

 

I've mentioned Pedroia's name a couple of times. I agree that he is a legitimate MVP candidate too.

[Kimmi]

Betts has hit and fielded and run better than Pedey.

 

It's not close there.

 

I can see the Papi argument, and maybe a DH should win once.

 

I wonder if Papi's retirement will lead some to vote for him out of some sort of "lifetime achievement" sentiment.

 

Betts has had the better season, but once again, I don't think 'most valuable' necessarily equates to best numbers.

 

Both Papi and Pedroia are valuable in ways that Mookie is not, not to knock Mookie in any way.

[moonslav59]

Betts has had the better season, but once again, I don't think 'most valuable' necessarily equates to best numbers.

 

Both Papi and Pedroia are valuable in ways that Mookie is not, not to knock Mookie in any way.

 

Mookie is way more valuable in just about every way I can think of.

[Kimmi]

Mookie is way more valuable in just about every way I can think of.

 

Well, I think that's where the interpretation and the subjectivity of 'valuable' comes into play.

 

I respectively disagree.

[moonslav59]

Well, I think that's where the interpretation and the subjectivity of 'valuable' comes into play.

 

I respectively disagree.

 

Pedey is great. He's having a fantastic season. However, he's not the fielder or runner he used to be. I know he adds value through intangibles, but so does betts. We'd be sunk without Mookie. I know the same could be said about Pedey, but I don't thinks it's even close. I'm fine with your position, but I guess I see value differently.

[a700hitter]

Pedey is great. He's having a fantastic season. However, he's not the fielder or runner he used to be. I know he adds value through intangibles, but so does betts. We'd be sunk without Mookie. I know the same could be said about Pedey, but I don't thinks it's even close. I'm fine with your position, but I guess I see value differently.

I think that Pedroia had a great year in the field.