Red Sox Acquire Drew Pomeranz

[Hugh2]

Let's not color this with 20-20 hindsight, ok?

 

We traded away the runner up Rookie of the Year SS, a player who had essentially everyone everywhere raving about his defense and was hitting >.300 with an OPS approaching .800 at the time of the trade. I hated it then and I still hate it. If the FO was hell-bent on trading Iggy they still didn't get enough for him.

 

How he has performed in the past few years is a patently unfair comparison because we don't know how Espinoza will fare in the next few years. A lot of these highly touted minor leaguers flame out. Let's pump the brakes a bit before we start thinking that we traded away the next Cy Young award winner. A lot can happen in the next few years.

 

And... if history means anything everyone will be saying that the trade was "worth it" regardless of how Espinoza pans out if the Sox win the WS.

 

That is 100% not hindsight, Iggy was playing well above a level he ever had before with an inflated BABIP and no power. I was calling for him to come down to earth then and he did.

[S5Dewey]

That is 100% not hindsight, Iggy was playing well above a level he ever had before with an inflated BABIP and no power. I was calling for him to come down to earth then and he did.

 

And he's still playing better than The Fat Man, whom the Sox ultimately picked up to fill that spot on the left side of the IF, and for a lot less money.

 

My point is that we agree on this one thing: The Sox didn't get enough in return for the players we (individually) liked.

[Hugh2]

And he's still playing better than The Fat Man, whom the Sox ultimately picked up to fill that spot on the left side of the IF, and for a lot less money.

 

My point is that we agree on this one thing: The Sox didn't get enough in return for the players we (individually) liked.

 

Lets just be thankful the DD got here and Bogaerts, Betts, and JBJ were able to establish themselves as MLBers.

[Palodios]

Pal, the cutter is only useful against righties in to keep them honest. A cutter is a type of fastball and doesn't change the plane. The only plane changing pitch he has is a big curveball. This is a massive overpay.

 

I literally used the same words "massive overpay".

 

The problem is that the Sox needed another mid rotation pitcher. Hill is 36 and injury prone. Gray, Harvey, Tyson have been hurt/ineffective. Sale/Fernandez are not available, and if they were Moncada + Beni might be gone too.

 

There's absolutely nothing available next offseason. Espinoza was 3-4 years off. Friggen Sean O'Sullivan hit the DL. Where do you find another pitcher? You can't give up 6 ER a game and expect to win.

[NativeBostonian]

Owens was never considered a future ace, I've been following prospects and the Sox prospects for a long time now and the ones who were following around Owens always through around middle of the rotation starter tag on him. Also stating that he'd need to refine his command to reach that level.

 

People who don't follow prospects all that much and looked at his stats said he was a TOTRS, Espinoza has a ceiling that is much higher than Owens is or ever was.

 

He was ranked #6 in the organization in 2013, #2 in 2014 and #4 in 2015. We've apparently have been hearing and reading different things.

[Hugh2]

He was ranked #6 in the organization in 2013, #2 in 2014 and #4 in 2015. We've apparently have been hearing and reading different things.

 

the #6 ranked prospect in a system one year is not the same as the #6 prospect another. Owens never had that high of a ceiling, he was always considered more of a higher floor prospect. This is the most stacked top of the sox system in years. All of the top 4 could easily of been the #1 prospect in the Sox system for the majority of the past 20 years.

[iortiz]

GM fills a major hole and fans are jumping off roofs about 2020-21.

 

LOL!

 

Yeah! Honestly who cares about 2021 right now?

 

Pomeranz is at very very least a No.3-4 moving forward.

[iortiz]

Sox still need another 3-5 starter.

 

Yup. We are still 1 arm away, but I'd go for another 1-3 type.

[Hugh2]

What is Pomeranzs track record???

[Spudboy]

This is how my friend Brian frames this deal on FB.

 

" Espinoza is only 18yrs old, a good 3-4yrs away from being a big leaguer (if he even makes it)....sox fans are never happy...if the sox didn't make a big deal we would bitch, they make a big deal and we bitch....sox fans are like a woman, they're impossible to please...haha. ..but im on board with this move...they arent too far from being a serious contender, THIS YEAR!!! I'll worry about 2020 in 2020...i care more about 2016"

[NativeBostonian]

Yup. We are still 1 arm away, but I'd go for another 1-3 type.

 

I would love that. But, then I'd have to read angry comments on the Red Sox giving away Benintendi.

[Hugh2]

Can someone please bring Ben back.

[NativeBostonian]

Can someone please bring Ben back.

 

If that comment is for real, you have no credibility now.

[iortiz]

I would love that. But, then I'd have to read angry comments on the Red Sox giving away Benintendi.

 

Would you give Benintendi, Moncada and Blake for José Fernandez?

[iortiz]

Can someone please bring Ben back.

 

No thanks.

[southpaw777]

Can someone please bring Ben back.

 

 

Yeah, if your serious then you have zero cred...

[a700hitter]

This is how my friend Brian frames this deal on FB.

 

" Espinoza is only 18yrs old, a good 3-4yrs away from being a big leaguer (if he even makes it)....sox fans are never happy...if the sox didn't make a big deal we would bitch, they make a big deal and we bitch....sox fans are like a woman, they're impossible to please...haha. ..but im on board with this move...they arent too far from being a serious contender, THIS YEAR!!! I'll worry about 2020 in 2020...i care more about 2016"

i guess that they prefer to lose and whine excuses about it. Beckett pitched like a God in 2007, and won us a World Series and people bitched and moaned like we had given away Rogers Hornsby.

[southpaw777]

Would you give Benintendi, Moncada and Blake for José Fernandez?

 

No way Jose

[Hugh2]

People have every right to like this trade, I get it...you're trading the future away to win now. Nothing wrong with that.

 

But I have every right to hate this trade, I like building a system from within, and developing your own youth. Yes prospects bust, but if 1 out of Espinoza, Groome, and Kopech reach their potential it would easily by miles be worth it and worth more than Pomeranz 10 fold.

 

In 2-4 years from now I can see people in here freaking out because the pitching stinks and trying to figure out how we can trade for some of the best pitchers in baseball. For all we know that could be Espinoza in 2019 2020.

 

Again to each their own, but I'm not 80 years old and need the Sox to win today.

[royf19]

Dombroski scares me when it comes to him being a bit too willing to trade prospects. I'm usually on the conservative side. Having said that, I like the move. The Sox need two starters (one if E-Rod is OK). Pomeranz is just 27. He doesn't have a lot of innings on his arm. He ERA, albeit in relief) the last two years were good. Hopefully, it's a case where you have a former top draft pick who finally figured it out. I understand not wanting to trade Espinoza, but he's still just Class A and it's a crapshoot when it comes to pitchers. There are a ton of pitchers in baseball who have had Espinoza's potential in A-ball and ended up flaming out. So I think it's worth the gamble.

[Hugh2]

If that comment is for real, you have no credibility now.

 

I was 1/2 joking. But when his job was on the line and the team was falling apart he held onto Bogaerts, he held onto Betts, and he held onto JBJ. Could you imagine this team today if the Sox traded away 2 out of 3 of those guys?

 

He preserved the system that is part of such a young elite core today.

[southpaw777]

People have every right to like this trade, I get it...you're trading the future away to win now. Nothing wrong with that.

 

But I have every right to hate this trade, I like building a system from within, and developing your own youth. Yes prospects bust, but if 1 out of Espinoza, Groome, and Kopech reach their potential it would easily by miles be worth it and worth more than Pomeranz 10 fold.

 

In 2-4 years from now I can see people in here freaking out because the pitching stinks and trying to figure out how we can trade for some of the best pitchers in baseball. For all we know that could be Espinoza in 2019 2020.

 

Again to each their own, but I'm not 80 years old and need the Sox to win today.

 

I get your point, but....Xander bogaerts, mookie betts, JBJ, travis Shaw, Blake Swihart, Christian Vazquez...they do, but they also have to make tough trades when needed. Maybe an overpay, but thats what pitching costs..be lucky it was only one for one.

It hurts, but it was what was available and needed.

Id rather they do this and have a better chance at a WSC than stand pat

[a700hitter]

Can someone please bring Ben back.

Branch Rickey's statement to Ralph Kiner would apply to Ben: "We finished last with you (Ben). We can finish last without you (Ben)."

[Jack Flap]

I'm amazed by some of the comments here... we e can't bitch about how we haven't developed good pitcher in forever and then be nonchalant about trading away probably the highest-ceilinged pitching prospect we've had in a long time.

 

I'm not saying I hate the trade... I'm really trying to talk myself into being okay with it. We'd just better hope Pomeranz is the TOTR type his 2016 numbers make him appear to be. I really hope we don't look back on this someday the way Blue Jays fans probably think about the Syndergaard trade.

[Hugh2]

I'm amazed by some of the comments here... we e can't bitch about how we haven't developed good pitcher in forever and then be nonchalant about trading away probably the highest-ceilinged pitching prospect we've had in a long time.

 

I'm not saying I hate the trade... I'm really trying to talk myself into being okay with it. We'd just better hope Pomeranz is the TOTR type his 2016 numbers make him appear to be. I really hope we don't look back on this someday the way Blue Jays fans probably think about the Syndergaard trade.

 

Exactly, we traded for a guy that has never pitched more than 150 innings a season and never more than 102 at the MLB level (this year) How do we know this guy can even stay healthy and hold down a rotation spot for a full season the next two years. He's literally never done that before, I like Pomeranz and actually advocated trading for him but if I had known Espinoza was the cost I'd easily be ok with not pulling that trigger.

[southpaw777]

I'm amazed by some of the comments here... we e can't bitch about how we haven't developed good pitcher in forever and then be nonchalant about trading away probably the highest-ceilinged pitching prospect we've had in a long time.

 

I'm not saying I hate the trade... I'm really trying to talk myself into being okay with it. We'd just better hope Pomeranz is the TOTR type his 2016 numbers make him appear to be. I really hope we don't look back on this someday the way Blue Jays fans probably think about the Syndergaard trade.

 

Good thing is we have him for his prime years and he looks to have found himself this year.

[a700hitter]

Casey Kelly was our best prospect since Clemens.

[Hugh2]

Casey Kelly was our best prospect since Clemens.

 

Casey kelly wasn't as highly regarded as Espinoza. And yes, good for you, you found an example of a prospect who busted, there are many of those. It happens. But I specifically remember people left and right bringing up Lars Anderson when I advocated to never trade away Bogaerts.

 

So yes, Espinoza could never crack a MLB rotation, he could also be a future MLB Cy Young winner. When you bet on young talent, you usually end up winning in the long run.

[Hugh2]

We mine as well trade Moncada for someone to replace Taz now.

[Jack Flap]

Yeah, and because Will Middlebrooks didn't work out, we should have traded Bogaerts and Betts, too... because all prospects are the same. Come on, man.