Christian Vazquez

[moonslav59]

I actually disagree with this. It's moderately plausible that Devers could position himself for a September callup. He'd have to break camp in Portland and then not struggle in order to put himself in range but if he does break camp with the Seadogs, he needs to earn one promotion and then look good in a Pawsox uniform, and then the team probably gives him a cup of coffee in the big leagues this coming season.

 

Once a player has completed a season at the A+ level, he's in range where a couple breakthroughs could put him on the big league roster in a matter of a few months. Do I think it will happen? Well I bet against both Moncada and Benintendi this year, so I tend to err on the side of caution with my predictions, but it's telling that I got burned doing it twice this season. DD has never been afraid of rapidly promoting a prospect.

 

I agree, but I don't think Devers needs time at AAA to be promoted to Boston late season. Remember, Moncada and Beni didn't even start at AA last year, as Devers will, and both made the jump over AAA to the bigs.

[Kimmi]

I disagree with this point made in the article:

 

Furthermore, any need for Swihart in left field was going to be temporary with Andrew Benintendi expecting to debut later that season.

 

At the time of Swihart's move to LF, there was not an expectation of Beni being promoted later in the year, in fact at the deadline, we tried to get Beltran, so we wouldn't have to call up Beni.

 

The guy ends up picking Swihart as the starting catcher after a good breakdown of each catcher's attributes and weaknesses, but I can't see my self going with the weakest defender of the bunch.

 

But I do agree with this statement in the article:

 

"...pulling the plug on Swihart’s catching six games into the season looked like a rash decision..."

 

I think the Sox hurt the development of both Swihart and Vazquez with their decisions last year, which I thought were very rash.

 

As far as who will emerge as our starting catcher this season, I am really pulling for Vazquez. I have nothing against Swihart or Leon, but I fell in love with Vazquez during his short stint in 2014. That's the guy that I want behind the plate.

[harmony]

Steamer600, which assumes 450 plate appearances for each catcher, projects 2017 WAR of 1.6 for Christian Vazquez, 1.6 for Sandy Leon and 1.4 for Blake Swihart:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/projections.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&type=steamer600&team=3&lg=all&players=0&sort=27,d

[Emp9]

Devers is in a different class than Longhi, there's a reason he's a top prospect and Longhi,is not. I would however agree that Longhi might be a guy who is getting overlooked and perhaps is a bit under rated.

 

Hugh, you got info on Austin Rei (that speaks beyond his sox prospect bio)?

[moonslav59]

Steamer600, which assumes 450 plate appearances for each catcher, projects 2017 WAR of 1.6 for Christian Vazquez, 1.6 for Sandy Leon and 1.4 for Blake Swihart:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/projections.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&type=steamer600&team=3&lg=all&players=0&sort=27,d

 

You have the numbers that include pitch framing...some letters before W-A-R?

[Eddy Ballgame]

I actually disagree with this. It's moderately plausible that Devers could position himself for a September callup. He'd have to break camp in Portland and then not struggle in order to put himself in range but if he does break camp with the Seadogs, he needs to earn one promotion and then look good in a Pawsox uniform, and then the team probably gives him a cup of coffee in the big leagues this coming season.

 

Once a player has completed a season at the A+ level, he's in range where a couple breakthroughs could put him on the big league roster in a matter of a few months. Do I think it will happen? Well I bet against both Moncada and Benintendi this year, so I tend to err on the side of caution with my predictions, but it's telling that I got burned doing it twice this season. DD has never been afraid of rapidly promoting a prospect.

 

I'm guessing that you never saw Benintendi and Moncada play prior to their respective callups. Moncada'a salary and physique got the press (not unusual at all), but Benintendi is so much more "advanced" that's it's not even debatable at this point.

[cp176]

I did see them both before they were called up. At the minor league level, Benintendi was ahead of Moncada from a defensive standpoint. Offensively not in any way. I'm certainly glad that we got Sale but I will be very interested to see how and if Moncada develops.

[jacksonianmarch]

If he doesn't need to be protected after 2017, then they won't promote him for a cup of coffee. They'd promote him if they thought he could help

[moonslav59]

If he doesn't need to be protected after 2017, then they won't promote him for a cup of coffee. They'd promote him if they thought he could help

 

Devers will need to be added to the 40 man roster by December, but I don't see us rushing to add him for the 2017 season, until after Pablo, Holt, Rutledge, Hernandez and maybe even Dominguez get a look-see first.

 

Here's next year's Sox Rule 5 Players:

 

Victor Acosta, Yoan Aybar, Trey Ball, Gerson Bautista, Jalen Beeks, Danny Bethea, Jordan Betts, Ty Buttrey, Jamie Callahan, Rusney Castillo, Harrison Cooney, Jake Cosart, Enmanuel De Jesus, Rafael Devers, Jhonathan Diaz, Jake Drehoff, Willis Figueroa, Pat Goetze, Daniel Gonzalez, Taylor Grover, Juan Hernandez, Darwinzon Hernandez, Bryan Hudson, Dedgar Jimenez, Raiwinson Lameda, Tzu-Wei Lin, Nick Longhi, Isaias Lucena, Austin Maddox, Danny Mars, Algenis Martinez, Kevin McAvoy, Daniel McGrath, Ritzi Mendoza, Simon Mercedes, Mike Meyers, Mike Miller, Derek Miller, Samuel Miranda, Joseph Monge, Ben Moore, Jhon Nunez, Yankory Pimentel, Jordan Procyshen, Hildemaro Requena, Jeremy Rivera, Jake Romanski, Dioscar Romero, Ramses Rosario, Chandler Shepherd, Josh Smith, Teddy Stankiewicz, Cole Sturgeon, Carlos Tovar, Sam Travis, Jantzen Witte

[Dojji]

But I do agree with this statement in the article:

 

"...pulling the plug on Swihart’s catching six games into the season looked like a rash decision..."

 

I think the Sox hurt the development of both Swihart and Vazquez with their decisions last year, which I thought were very rash.

 

As far as who will emerge as our starting catcher this season, I am really pulling for Vazquez. I have nothing against Swihart or Leon, but I fell in love with Vazquez during his short stint in 2014. That's the guy that I want behind the plate.

 

I agree, if they ever intended to evaluate Swihart as a catching option for 2016, the decision was rash. Therefore, we can clearly deduce that they had no such intention at any time in 2016.

 

Frankly it was very clear to me even in those first handful of games that Blake Swihart was not up to the task of catching a would-be championship contender. Besides, the organization had already made its decision about who they really wanted catching, and it wasn't Swihart -- Swihart was simply holding the post down until their intended starter was verifiably over his injury, which they hadn't established to their own satisfaction by the end of Spring Training.

[mvp 78]

I did see them both before they were called up. At the minor league level, Benintendi was ahead of Moncada from a defensive standpoint. Offensively not in any way. I'm certainly glad that we got Sale but I will be very interested to see how and if Moncada develops.

 

Did you get to see him hit right handed? His OPS right handed is about 200 points lower than left handed. It's ugly. If he continues to switch hit, he'll be behind Beni by a lot.

[moonslav59]

Did you get to see him hit right handed? His OPS right handed is about 200 points lower than left handed. It's ugly. If he continues to switch hit, he'll be behind Beni by a lot.

 

Have you seen Beni vs LHPs?

 

Just kidding, the sample size in the bigs and at AA are tiny as most splits vs lefties are.

[mvp 78]

Have you seen Beni vs LHPs?

 

Just kidding, the sample size in the bigs and at AA are tiny as most splits vs lefties are.

 

Every scout has said that Moncada is severely hampered when he hits right handed. His swing is vastly different and the results aren't there. It has nothing to do with sample size.

[Bellhorn04]

I agree, if they ever intended to evaluate Swihart as a catching option for 2016, the decision was rash. Therefore, we can clearly deduce that they had no such intention at any time in 2016.

 

Frankly it was very clear to me even in those first handful of games that Blake Swihart was not up to the task of catching a would-be championship contender. Besides, the organization had already made its decision about who they really wanted catching, and it wasn't Swihart -- Swihart was simply holding the post down until their intended starter was verifiably over his injury, which they hadn't established to their own satisfaction by the end of Spring Training.

 

That was the way I saw it as well.

[Eddy Ballgame]

Did you get to see him hit right handed? His OPS right handed is about 200 points lower than left handed. It's ugly. If he continues to switch hit, he'll be behind Beni by a lot.

 

You don't have to be a scout to notice that Bentinendi's pitch recognition & plate discipline were much more advanced than Moncada's. Moncada's power might be more developed, but when two different coaches from other teams, one of which was Jays manager John Gibbons, said that "the ball sounded louder coming off of Benintendi's bat than any other player that they saw in the American League last year," and the fact that Benintendi has bulked up quite a bit, then his power probably isn't really far behind, either.

[cp176]

I not going to argue with you about the differences between Benintendi and Moncada for sure. I am very happy we have what we have. What I will say is that if (big if) Moncada should develop his potential, we are talking about two really different ballplayers. Moncada still could become a once in a generation talent and Benintendi could become very good. The difference in raw strength is extreme. Now this I will say - I play golf down here quite often with some good old Bluejays' fans and believe me they wouldn't listen to anything Gibbons said about anything.

[Eddy Ballgame]

I not going to argue with you about the differences between Benintendi and Moncada for sure. I am very happy we have what we have. What I will say is that if (big if) Moncada should develop his potential, we are talking about two really different ballplayers. Moncada still could become a once in a generation talent and Benintendi could become very good. The difference in raw strength is extreme. Now this I will say - I play golf down here quite often with some good old Bluejays' fans and believe me they wouldn't listen to anything Gibbons said about anything.

 

Fair enough. I'm not a Gibbons fan, either, but it's quite the compliment. I will say this. If you think Benintendi's ceiling is "very good," then your probably greatly underestimating this kid's talent. Not everyone in the Sox organization was sold on Moncada, as some said he was more of an "athlete" than a "baseball player." There were also supposedly concerns with his durability. Have you seen the recent video of Benintendi? He did the "Rock" workout this off-season. He's added a ton of muscle.

 

I've mentioned this several times, but Benintendi has the best pure left handed swing I've seen in a young Sox player since Fred Lynn and he has a terrific makeup. Just my opinion, but I think the only thing that will stop this kid from being a star in this league will be freak injury.

[cp176]

Fair enough. I'm not a Gibbons fan, either, but it's quite the compliment. I will say this. If you think Benintendi's ceiling is "very good," then your probably greatly underestimating this kid's talent. Not everyone in the Sox organization was sold on Moncada, as some said he was more of an "athlete" than a "baseball player." There were also supposedly concerns with his durability. Have you seen the recent video of Benintendi? He did the "Rock" workout this off-season. He's added a ton of muscle.

 

I've mentioned this several times, but Benintendi has the best pure left handed swing I've seen in a young Sox player since Fred Lynn and he has a terrific makeup. Just my opinion, but I think the only thing that will stop this kid from being a star in this league will be freak injury.

 

This isn't an arguement either - just a couple of guys talking about what might develop. All good and right now particularly for us. I did see Lynn play a number of times. At 6'1' " 190, I think that he was bigger than Benintendi is going to be. I also think as a diehard fan that if Lynn had continued his career in Boston, he would be in the HOF today. If Benintendi ever becomes comparable to Lynn, we will have ourselves a good one for sure. Moncada still is a great unknown. This might sound like a criticism of Beni but it isn't. Personally, I have not seen a player in Portland with the types of physical gifts that Moncada has. He may not develop the way some still think that he might but if he does maybe we can resign him down the trail. Now that you mention it though, I do agree with you about his swing and its fluidity. It does remind me of Lynn's. Lynn size just game him more punch behind it.

[moonslav59]

Every scout has said that Moncada is severely hampered when he hits right handed. His swing is vastly different and the results aren't there. It has nothing to do with sample size.

 

I wasn't coming close to implying anything about Moncada vs RHPs. I actually agree with you.

 

I was just joking around about Beni and his poor splits vs LHPs in a teenie tiny sample size in the bigs last year.

[Eddy Ballgame]

This isn't an arguement either - just a couple of guys talking about what might develop. All good and right now particularly for us. I did see Lynn play a number of times. At 6'1' " 190, I think that he was bigger than Benintendi is going to be. I also think as a diehard fan that if Lynn had continued his career in Boston, he would be in the HOF today. If Benintendi ever becomes comparable to Lynn, we will have ourselves a good one for sure. Moncada still is a great unknown. This might sound like a criticism of Beni but it isn't. Personally, I have not seen a player in Portland with the types of physical gifts that Moncada has. He may not develop the way some still think that he might but if he does maybe we can resign him down the trail. Now that you mention it though, I do agree with you about his swing and its fluidity. It does remind me of Lynn's. Lynn size just game him more punch behind it.

 

Definitely not arguing! I agree with everything here. I was at basketball practice on a Friday night when I heard Lynn was traded. I was devastated. Haywood Sullivan was convinced Lynn was going to leave as a free agent even though Lynn stated several times that he didn't want to go anywhere. He even said, "Why would I ever want to leave a ballpark that I hit .350 at?!" He has said himself that his career would've been entirely different if he had stayed here. That management group was a disaster with some serious cash flow issues at the end of the 70s. They traded or let a ton of guys walk for all the wrong reasons.

[Bellhorn04]

Definitely not arguing! I agree with everything here. I was at basketball practice on a Friday night when I heard Lynn was traded. I was devastated. Haywood Sullivan was convinced Lynn was going to leave as a free agent even though Lynn stated several times that he didn't want to go anywhere. He even said, "Why would I ever want to leave a ballpark that I hit .350 at?!" He has said himself that his career would've been entirely different if he had stayed here. That management group was a disaster with some serious cash flow issues at the end of the 70s. They traded or let a ton of guys walk for all the wrong reasons.

 

The Henry management group is a gift from God compared to that one.

[Eddy Ballgame]

The Henry management group is a gift from God compared to that one.

 

And then some...Forget Lynn, Fisk & to a lesser extent Burleson, they got rid of all of the self proclaimed "Buffalo heads" (Jenkins, Lee, Willoughby, Carbo & Wise) for nothing in return, because they were "anti-establishment types." Those guys all had some success after Boston and the Sox had no more depth at the Major League level.

[moonslav59]

Definitely not arguing! I agree with everything here. I was at basketball practice on a Friday night when I heard Lynn was traded. I was devastated. Haywood Sullivan was convinced Lynn was going to leave as a free agent even though Lynn stated several times that he didn't want to go anywhere. He even said, "Why would I ever want to leave a ballpark that I hit .350 at?!" He has said himself that his career would've been entirely different if he had stayed here. That management group was a disaster with some serious cash flow issues at the end of the 70s. They traded or let a ton of guys walk for all the wrong reasons.

 

That whole era was sickening.

 

Fisk. Lynn. Burleson. Many others shipped off.

 

Makes you realize how good we have it under Henry.

[cp176]

And then some...Forget Lynn, Fisk & to a lesser extent Burleson, they got rid of all of the self proclaimed "Buffalo heads" (Jenkins, Lee, Willoughby, Carbo & Wise) for nothing in return, because they were "anti-establishment types." Those guys all had some success after Boston and the Sox had no more depth at the Major League level.

 

You are now bringing back the memories! The golddust twins that year were and continue to be the best one two punch that I have seen in Boston. As much as I loved Papi and Manny, I still would take Lynn and Rice. As bad as the management group might have been, somebody must have been doing some good stuff, because their talent level was absolutely loaded.

[moonslav59]

You are now bringing back the memories! The golddust twins that year were and continue to be the best one two punch that I have seen in Boston. As much as I loved Papi and Manny, I still would take Lynn and Rice. As bad as the management group might have been, somebody must have been doing some good stuff, because their talent level was absolutely loaded.

 

It's hard to compare eras, but that Lynn-Rice duo was very very special.

 

Too bad they only got one playoff chance together.

[cp176]

I have no problem at all comparing eras. For the most part, it seems as though the people that don't think that you can are the people who have have actually not lived through more than one. Personally, if you take the Red Sox lineup from between 75 and 80 with the addition of our starting pitching, I think that that equals dynasty.

[moonslav59]

I have no problem at all comparing eras. For the most part, it seems as though the people that don't think that you can are the people who have have actually not lived through more than one. Personally, if you take the Red Sox lineup from between 75 and 80 with the addition of our starting pitching, I think that that equals dynasty.

 

I lived em both, and those Sox teams will always have a special place in my heart. I was 16 in 1975, and that season and the ones that followed were glorious, even with coming so close to a ring. I've never felt love for a team or players like I did back then. It was special.

 

I see the Manny-Papi duo in a whole different perspective. I was much older and had lost some of that childhood awe, but I was starving for a championship that had eluded us for way too long. The three rings we got with these two studs was pretty damn awesome.

 

I just have a hard time comparing the two. They both mean so much to me, but in different ways. I'm fine with others saying these two are better than those two, but to me, they are incomparable. I love both duos too much to rate one better than the other.

[Bellhorn04]

I lived with those 1975-1978 teams too, and they were great teams, the most star-studded of all the Sox teams I've seen for sure. But they were tragic. And the loss in the 1978 playoff game was the end of the dream.

[cp176]

I lived with those 1975-1978 teams too, and they were great teams, the most star-studded of all the Sox teams I've seen for sure. But they were tragic. And the loss in the 1978 playoff game was the end of the dream.

 

I think that that is about the time I had to start growing up.

[cp176]

I lived em both, and those Sox teams will always have a special place in my heart. I was 16 in 1975, and that season and the ones that followed were glorious, even with coming so close to a ring. I've never felt love for a team or players like I did back then. It was special.

 

I see the Manny-Papi duo in a whole different perspective. I was much older and had lost some of that childhood awe, but I was starving for a championship that had eluded us for way too long. The three rings we got with these two studs was pretty damn awesome.

 

I just have a hard time comparing the two. They both mean so much to me, but in different ways. I'm fine with others saying these two are better than those two, but to me, they are incomparable. I love both duos too much to rate one better than the other.

 

I agree - i just have to laugh just a little when I hear that it is impossible to compare athletes from the 70's and 80's to the present. bigger, stronger, faster actually kicked into gear a long time ago. Personally, the 1967 dream season was so unreal and just so much fun for me. I had roughly a decade where that is all I did and for the most part all I thought about. I actually think that I enjoyed the games a little more when I had to work a little harder to see and hear them.