Sox Pitching Staff Discussion

[oldtimer]

I totally agree, and I don't want to sound like I'm a Pablo apologist.

 

I hated the signing the second it happened. The guy was declining long before the signing. Then, to fall off a cliff after already going through a long decline is not encouraging.

 

I've said over and over that I'm not counting on one inning from Pablo at 3B in 2017.

 

I'm also not writing him off or projecting him as having a significant chance at winning the FT 3B job on opening day or even by May. To me, his best chance at playing a lot is if we don't add a DH, and he platoons with Young as our DH. His chances at 3B are much less than as a DH, but it's not at zero.

 

If Shaw sucks in ST'ing, then Pablo has a shot at playing his way into the job. He might not take as long as you have mapped out, but certainly it might take that long or longer if ever.

 

He just turned 30. He's not the only fat player to play beyond 30. I'm not even sure how fat he actually is right now. I'd like to know his weight now vs last year at this time, and during his 3 WAR days with SF. Not that weight tells thew hole story, but it would clue us in a little more on how dedicated he has been since getting hurt this year.

 

There other options than Pablo. The main reason we are talking about him is the size and length of his contract makes it very difficult to move him. If he does come back after a full year off and two years of poor or no production what could we expect? We do have other options in Shaw, Holt and Hernandez. In addition, we have Mondaca, Devers and now Dubron waiting in the wings. Probably one of those guys will perform at least as well as Pablo can and will should he recover some of what he once was. I am not sold that Shaw can be that guy based on his body of work, although his defense is solid. I see our options as including a FA addition or going with Hernandez or one of our young prospects. Holt can be more of a general utility guy.

[Dojji]

I'm thinking we may suffer without a big bopper like Papi in the lineup more than we know. And I'd hate to spend big on that bat. Bring back my boy Napoli!!!!?

 

I would have no objection to the return of Napoli, except that we already have a guy who can do everything Napoli does offensively (Young). Napoli as a RHH isn't quite what we need.

 

Guys -- I honestly think the best way to go is to leave the DH spot open. We have a lot of youngsters to filter into this lineup and it's going to be a struggle to get them all the AB's we need to sort the wheat from the chaff even with the DH spot open. There's more uses for the DH than having a big slug clogging the position up. With the number of different young players we need to get AB's for in the very near future (Swihart, Moncada, Dubon, Hernandez, Travis) I can see a very good argument to be made that the key here is to not permanently fill the DH and use it to help players get the playing time they need to show their stuff.

 

I think by the end of the season it's very possible that our fulltime DH will be Blake Swihart.

[Eddy Ballgame]

I would have no objection to the return of Napoli, except that we already have a guy who can do everything Napoli does offensively (Young). Napoli as a RHH isn't quite what we need.

 

Guys -- I honestly think the best way to go is to leave the DH spot open. We have a lot of youngsters to filter into this lineup and it's going to be a struggle to get them all the AB's we need to sort the wheat from the chaff even with the DH spot open. There's more uses for the DH than having a big slug clogging the position up. With the number of different young players we need to get AB's for in the very near future (Swihart, Moncada, Dubon, Hernandez, Travis) I can see a very good argument to be made that the key here is to not permanently fill the DH and use it to help players get the playing time they need to show their stuff.

 

I think by the end of the season it's very possible that our fulltime DH will be Blake Swihart.

 

Blake Swihart is a young catcher with exceptional athletic ability. He is going to play somewhere every day and field a position, whether it's Pawtucket, Boston or another organization. Why would a team take a player with his skill set and make him a DH at 24 years old? It would never happen. The Red Sox will acquire a player who will get the majority of at bats at DH. The revolving door thing doesn't work.

[mvp 78]

I don't think anyone is blindly assuming that Pablo will be a decent third baseman, and I don't think anyone has him penciled in for next year. I've been his biggest supporter, and even I would not count on him for anything.

 

I think you're being a little unfair about the injury though. He got injured. It might not have had anything to do with his weight.

 

IMO, he gets a chance to win his job back in spring training. Personally, I think he will bounce back. Will he be better than Shaw? I don't know. But as much as he should not be counted on to do the job, he should also not be counted out.

 

If he's on the roster after ST, he'll be the opening day 3b. That's what I'm penciling him in for.

 

His contract and tenure is what is keeping him as a big league third baseman. Otherwise, he'd be starting out in AAA.

 

He COULD be good next year. We won't have any idea until February though.

[Dojji]

It worked fine for the Yankees during the dynasty. Don't be so closed-minded.

 

Swihart is far behind our other options defensively and his bat is ready now. We have no need for him in the field, and the last time we tried to play monkeyshines with his position he was hurt within 2 weeks. DH is a good spot for a guy who is the third best defender on the team at his own position, however athletic he might be.

[mvp 78]

Also, having Young as a RHH DH means that he can spell Mookie and JBJ in the OF when needed while still getting a ton of AB's to stay fresh.

[Dojji]

His contract and tenure is what is keeping him as a big league third baseman.

 

So nevermind that he might not actually be able to play third base?

[mvp 78]

It worked fine for the Yankees during the dynasty. Don't be so closed-minded.

 

Swihart is far behind our other options defensively and his bat is ready now. We have no need for him in the field, and the last time we tried to play monkeyshines with his position he was hurt within 2 weeks. DH is a good spot for a guy who is the third best defender on the team at his own position, however athletic he might be.

 

Who are you speaking of? Fielder? Strawberry? Chili Davis? Justice? Sierra? Those are the guys I think of as DHing during the dynasty years.

 

Nick Johnson (2002 - 2003) and Shane Spencer (also used Canseco, Leyritz and Glenallen Hill during 2000) had far less time at DH than any of those guys.

[mvp 78]

So nevermind that he might not actually be able to play third base?

 

He's going to be given every possible chance to play that position until he's no longer on the roster.

[Spudboy]

Blake Swihart is a young catcher with exceptional athletic ability. He is going to play somewhere every day and field a position, whether it's Pawtucket, Boston or another organization. Why would a team take a player with his skill set and make him a DH at 24 years old? It would never happen. The Red Sox will acquire a player who will get the majority of at bats at DH. The revolving door thing doesn't work.

 

Amen.

[moonslav59]

Blake Swihart is a young catcher with exceptional athletic ability. He is going to play somewhere every day and field a position, whether it's Pawtucket, Boston or another organization. Why would a team take a player with his skill set and make him a DH at 24 years old? It would never happen. The Red Sox will acquire a player who will get the majority of at bats at DH. The revolving door thing doesn't work.

 

Why? Because maybe he's the best hitter we have for that role.

 

No way am I saying Swi should be our long term DH, and if we use Young at DH vs LHPs, maybe Swihart could DH vs some RHPs and catch some other days.

 

It's not ideal, but I think we should put our best players into the line-up, even if it retards their growth on defense at a given position for a few weeks or months.

[moonslav59]

This thread has really gotten off the subject of pitching.

[Slasher9]

This thread has really gotten off the subject of pitching.

 

i would hand Pablo the ball in a high pressure game before i would give it to Price. and he probably hasnt pitched since high school.....

[Eddy Ballgame]

Why? Because maybe he's the best hitter we have for that role.

 

No way am I saying Swi should be our long term DH, and if we use Young at DH vs LHPs, maybe Swihart could DH vs some RHPs and catch some other days.

 

It's not ideal, but I think we should put our best players into the line-up, even if it retards their growth on defense at a given position for a few weeks or months.

 

I understand your point, but it's never happened and it never will happen. It doesn't make any sense to do it. They need to find out what Swihart can do at this stage of his development. If he turns into BJ Surhoff, then great, but for now he needs to play every day at a position.

 

The next Director of Player Development who thinks it would be a good idea to take a top young, very athletic prospect and make him a DH because it "might" be the best option for the big club, will be the first. I can't wait until they acquire an actual DH, so these crazy ideas of Moncada & Swihart DHing will go away.

[cp176]

I understand your point, but it's never happened and it never will happen. It doesn't make any sense to do it. They need to find out what Swihart can do at this stage of his development. If he turns into BJ Surhoff, then great, but for now he needs to play every day at a position.

 

The next Director of Player Development who thinks it would be a good idea to take a top young, very athletic prospect and make him a DH because it "might" be the best option for the big club, will be the first. I can't wait until they acquire an actual DH, so these crazy ideas of Moncada & Swihart DHing will go away.

 

For the most part, i agree with you. I will say though that if they don't trade for pitching then it has something to do with them trying to actually figure out what they have in their young players - Moncada, Swihart, Benintendi, Shaw, Travis, Hernandez, Vazquez maybe even Dubon etc. If they don't trade, what do they do with all of them? I think that the two go together. If they trade for pitching, I would expect them to sign the big bat if they can. If they hold the line with the current rotation, i don't see them giving any of these kids away. More than just a couple of those kids will need to play. I hope they go the trade route if a good one presents itself.

[S5Dewey]

I understand your point, but it's never happened and it never will happen. It doesn't make any sense to do it. They need to find out what Swihart can do at this stage of his development. If he turns into BJ Surhoff, then great, but for now he needs to play every day at a position.

 

The next Director of Player Development who thinks it would be a good idea to take a top young, very athletic prospect and make him a DH because it "might" be the best option for the big club, will be the first. I can't wait until they acquire an actual DH, so these crazy ideas of Moncada & Swihart DHing will go away.

Speaking of this, would someone refresh my memory? Isn't there a 'quiet time' immediately after the WS when players can't be signed? Or does that just apply to players receiving QO's? And what's the timetable on QO's?

 

I know I could look it up but I'm feeling lazy. :-)

[Dojji]

There is a period of time after the WS, can't remember how long, it's only a few days though.

[moonslav59]

I understand your point, but it's never happened and it never will happen. It doesn't make any sense to do it. They need to find out what Swihart can do at this stage of his development. If he turns into BJ Surhoff, then great, but for now he needs to play every day at a position.

 

The next Director of Player Development who thinks it would be a good idea to take a top young, very athletic prospect and make him a DH because it "might" be the best option for the big club, will be the first. I can't wait until they acquire an actual DH, so these crazy ideas of Moncada & Swihart DHing will go away.

 

I don't feel like we'd be "making him a DH". We'd be temporarily be using him there part-time, (if or) until he wins a position FT.

[Spudboy]

I understand your point, but it's never happened and it never will happen. It doesn't make any sense to do it. They need to find out what Swihart can do at this stage of his development. If he turns into BJ Surhoff, then great, but for now he needs to play every day at a position.

 

The next Director of Player Development who thinks it would be a good idea to take a top young, very athletic prospect and make him a DH because it "might" be the best option for the big club, will be the first. I can't wait until they acquire an actual DH, so these crazy ideas of Moncada & Swihart DHing will go away.

 

 

You are not alone Brother.

[Slasher9]

why do you guys want to spend $$$ on a DH? pitching, pitching, pitching. or we are just looking to put up great O numbers in the regular season and then get swept out of the postseason again and again and again?

[harmony]

Speaking of this, would someone refresh my memory? Isn't there a 'quiet time' immediately after the WS when players can't be signed? Or does that just apply to players receiving QO's? And what's the timetable on QO's?

 

I know I could look it up but I'm feeling lazy. :-)

http://www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3511

[cp176]

why do you guys want to spend $$$ on a DH? pitching, pitching, pitching. or we are just looking to put up great O numbers in the regular season and then get swept out of the postseason again and again and again?

 

who did you have in mind that wouldn't require a trade?

[Eddy Ballgame]

why do you guys want to spend $$$ on a DH? pitching, pitching, pitching. or we are just looking to put up great O numbers in the regular season and then get swept out of the postseason again and again and again?

 

Top starting pitchers aren't exactly dangling from trees. There's nothing to get excited about in free agency and I don't see many teams itching to trade top of the rotation starters anymore. Who do you have in mind?

[Bellhorn04]

why do you guys want to spend $$$ on a DH? pitching, pitching, pitching. or we are just looking to put up great O numbers in the regular season and then get swept out of the postseason again and again and again?

 

Do you think maybe we should trade Betts, Bogaerts, Bradley and Beni for pitching?

[Dojji]

who did you have in mind that wouldn't require a trade?

 

Indeed. As it stands right now we have the best rotation we can have without doing something ludicrous. That's why the focus has been on the huge gap left by the parting of Ortiz.

[moonslav59]

why do you guys want to spend $$$ on a DH? pitching, pitching, pitching. or we are just looking to put up great O numbers in the regular season and then get swept out of the postseason again and again and again?

 

Even when we had Papi, we only spent $10-16M a year near the end.... not much in today's world.

[moonslav59]

who did you have in mind that wouldn't require a trade?

 

One theory might be to trade an existing starter with someone like Swihart and/or Devers for someone better or more reliable.

[S5Dewey]

http://www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3511

 

Got it. Thanks. And I learned something I wasn't aware of, too. The QO for 2017 is $17.2M.

 

Do we have anyone receiving a QO this year?

[Bellhorn04]

One theory might be to trade an existing starter with someone like Swihart and/or Devers for someone better or more reliable.

 

But what pitcher would we be trying to acquire?

[Bellhorn04]

Got it. Thanks. And I learned something I wasn't aware of, too. The QO for 2017 is $17.2M.

 

Do we have anyone receiving a QO this year?

 

We don't have any free agents who would command a QO.