Sox Pitching Staff Discussion

[Spudboy]

This has nothing to do with someone being right or wrong to me. i honestly hope that Espinoza becomes the great pitcher that some think that he might become. I'm patient as well but my time frame is obviously different than yours. If Pomeranz is able to pitch to a mid rotation or even higher level for us, it is quite possible that he will be responsible for between 40 and 50 wins for us at the major league level before Espinoza throws a ball in the majors. In my opinion, it was a good deal today as well as going forward. I don't agree with you but I value your opinion and realize that there are supporting arguments for either side. I don't think that this will be the last time the Sox use their young prospects as assets either. We can debate how we should use them until the cows come home, but we aren't making the ultimate decisions.

 

And we won't be making the playoffs this year with Espinoza in the rotation.

[Dalas21000]

What does everyone think about Barnes? I think he should be the team's closer....I think he holds his composure more than Kimbrel(maybe because he's been with the organization longer,AL) has in that role....Lots of shaky outings....Anyways, I thought Barnes proved himself when he closed the game against the Yanks but then Farrell went back to Kimbrel once again in the next save opportunity...Also, I think Barnes throws harder than Kimbrel and I don't think he compromises his control....

[mvp 78]

I think Barnes is fine as a 7th inning guy.

 

I also think there are other places where the pitching staff is being discussed and this question could be posed there.

[Dalas21000]

What does everyone think about Barnes? I think he should be the team's closer....I think he holds his composure more than Kimbrel(maybe because he's been with the organization longer,AL) has in that role....Lots of shaky outings....Anyways, I thought Barnes proved himself when he closed the game against the Yanks but then Farrell went back to Kimbrel once again in the next save opportunity...Also, I think Barnes throws harder than Kimbrel and I don't think he compromises his control....

 

Perhaps Kimbrel could be Barnes setup man

[Dalas21000]

Barnes did fine in his role yesterday...i mean i didnt want them to take him out when they did...lol

[Spudboy]

Perhaps Kimbrel could be Barnes setup man

 

Well at least this idea is better than your idea to split time in left field between Benintendi and Hanley.

[Dalas21000]

I think Barnes is fine as a 7th inning guy.

 

I also think there are other places where the pitching staff is being discussed and this question could be posed there.

 

In another forum, someone was posing the question as to whether we have a lights out closer....I don't think Kimbrel is lights out ....I think Barnes has that possibility....Especially if he only had to come in for 3 outs

[Bellhorn04]

Kimbrel has been lights out most of his career...don't write him off just yet.

[Dalas21000]

Well at least this idea is better than your idea to split time in left field between Benintendi and Hanley.

 

I'm sorry but I can't stand watching Hanley play 1st base....I think its a horrible move....Especially considering the fact that we have someone that could play 1st(Shaw).....Id rather put Ortiz at 1st than Hanley lol.....then you can DH Ramirez if you want him to bat....We also have Hill/Holt to play 3rd

Edited August 17, 2016 by Dalas21000

[Dalas21000]

Kimbrel has been lights out most of his career...don't write him off just yet.

 

I prefer sticking with whats working and i thought Barnes proved himself against the Yanks

[Dalas21000]

Kimbrel has been lights out most of his career...don't write him off just yet.

 

Overall, I think he has been very shaky this year....So, what he did in the past is kind of irrelevant to me now....I'm expecting him to blow every game he comes into lately based on this years performances...Some of his saves ,this year, I think have been oh s***,holding on for dear life as well.....

Edited August 17, 2016 by Dalas21000

[Bellhorn04]

I prefer sticking with whats working and i thought Barnes proved himself against the Yanks

 

Well, let's see...in the series with the Yanks he pitched 1.2 innings and gave up 3 earned runs.

 

I have no complaints with Barnes, but you're overselling him...he's had his rough spots too.

[Dalas21000]

Like I said, I like to stick with what works,...and I don;t think Barnes has given me a reason not to give him a chance as closer...I understand, he can probably go 2 innings as well but I would have like to see the team bring in Buccholz or Kelly in a situation where our starting pitcher leaves after 5

[mvp 78]

Kimbrel has a better ERA+, FIP, WHIP and K/9 than Barnes. The only thing Barnes is better at is BB/9.

 

Kimbrel has been more trustworthy than Barnes in much higher leverage situations.

[Dalas21000]

Well, let's see...in the series with the Yanks he pitched 1.2 innings and gave up 3 earned runs.

 

I have no complaints with Barnes, but you're overselling him...he's had his rough spots too.

 

I'm talking about bringing him in as a closer...not in the 6th or 7th inning...Kimbrel set him up for the save in the first of 3, in the last Yankees series...and Barnes also came in to strikeout 3 in the 9th in the last Yankees game

[Dalas21000]

Kimbrel has a better ERA+, FIP, WHIP and K/9 than Barnes. The only thing Barnes is better at is BB/9.

 

Kimbrel has been more trustworthy than Barnes in much higher leverage situations.

 

I think BB/9 is very important for a closer....When a closer comes in and youre up 1 run or whatever(with bases loaded), you need him to throw strikes

Edited August 17, 2016 by Dalas21000

[mvp 78]

I think BB/9 is very important for a closer....When a closer comes in and youre up 1 run or whatever(with bases loaded), you need him to throw strikes

 

But you also just need to keep runners off of the bases no matter how they get there.

 

Kimbrel's WHIP is 1.103, Barnes' is 1.286. Barnes is far more likely to give up a hit than Kimbrel.

[sk7326]

Kimbrel has been striking out guys at a lights out rate - it's life as a reliever, your bad outings look worse. It is an inherently volatile gig.

 

Barnes is more useful in the position he is right now because he is capable of getting more than 3 outs. The closer job is a bit too limiting.

[Wade Boggs]

In another forum, someone was posing the question as to whether we have a lights out closer....I don't think Kimbrel is lights out ....I think Barnes has that possibility....Especially if he only had to come in for 3 outs

 

I don't think so. Barnes, doesn't throw enough strikes for me. As for Kimbrel being lights out with the Red Sox I need to see more. He was until he injured that knee shagging fly balls. If he is not lights out, he is pretty close to it. I think he can give us more of a 15 pitch nail it down type of finish, instead of the sweat out save stuff. Not all the times...some

[illinoisredsox]

Kimbrel has gotten the job done in save situations, he's 21 out of 23 chances (plus the "hold" he was given in the 4 walk game last week, he didn't blow the save but he did pitch his way out of it.) He also is unscored on in 33/40 appearances. When Kimbrel blows up, he blows up spectacularly, but his issues have generally come in tied games and games where the Sox are behind. Given his psyche, I don't see putting him in a set-up role as working very well. And I acknowledge he's had some high wire acts, but overall he's gotten the job done. Not to mention he's got close to 250 major league saves over the past 6-7 years. Even Mariano Rivera, the GOAT, would blow a few saves a year.

 

Barnes has been spectacular at times and decidedly mediocre at others. Yeah, he's 1/1 in saves and has 10 holds, but he's been scored on in 15 out of 46 appearances and only lately has begun making regular appearances in the 8th inning.

 

Now is not the time to experiment.

[Dojji]

*sigh* I remember when I was this naive, posting wild theories in complete disregard to the established and clearly posted forum rules. I also remember getting banned from 4 forums before I decided to play by the rules instead of doing my own wacky thing.

[Dalas21000]

But you also just need to keep runners off of the bases no matter how they get there.

 

Kimbrel's WHIP is 1.103, Barnes' is 1.286. Barnes is far more likely to give up a hit than Kimbrel.

 

Is 1.286 a large difference from 1.103?

[Dalas21000]

*sigh* I remember when I was this naive, posting wild theories in complete disregard to the established and clearly posted forum rules. I also remember getting banned from 4 forums before I decided to play by the rules instead of doing my own wacky thing.

 

Did I do something wrong?

[Dojji]

Is 1.286 a large difference from 1.103?

 

Yes. It's a difference of an extra baserunner every 6 innings or so. That adds up over the course of 60-80 appearances.

 

Besides, you haven't given us a single concrete reason why using the objectively inferior pitcher in the objectively most critical relief role is a good idea. In fact you seem to be struggling very badly to articulate any way in which it isn't a very, very bad idea.

 

And certainly you're clearly demonstrating that you didn't think this through anywhere near long enough to create a whole new thread on a topic already being discussed in, and fully capable of being posted in, at least one other thread, in clear violation of forum rules.

[Dalas21000]

Kimbrel has gotten the job done in save situations, he's 21 out of 23 chances (plus the "hold" he was given in the 4 walk game last week, he didn't blow the save but he did pitch his way out of it.) He also is unscored on in 33/40 appearances. When Kimbrel blows up, he blows up spectacularly, but his issues have generally come in tied games and games where the Sox are behind. Given his psyche, I don't see putting him in a set-up role as working very well. And I acknowledge he's had some high wire acts, but overall he's gotten the job done. Not to mention he's got close to 250 major league saves over the past 6-7 years. Even Mariano Rivera, the GOAT, would blow a few saves a year.

 

Barnes has been spectacular at times and decidedly mediocre at others. Yeah, he's 1/1 in saves and has 10 holds, but he's been scored on in 15 out of 46 appearances and only lately has begun making regular appearances in the 8th inning.

 

Now is not the time to experiment.

 

In the last Yankees series, he setup Barnes in the only win they had in that series.....

[Dojji]

And that almost matters. The Yankees are behind us in the standings and likely to remain so for the balance of the year. The teams to beat are Baltimore and Toronto. It's always nice to beat the Yankees, but there is literally no point in trying to stack the team against NYY at any time, but especially not when NYY is already worse than we are.

 

This is not the last 2 decades when the only way to advance was to get through NYY. I don't care what this team does against New York right now as long as they hold their place in the standings.

[Dalas21000]

Yes. It's a difference of an extra baserunner every 6 innings or so. That adds up over the course of 60-80 appearances.

 

Besides, you haven't given us a single concrete reason why using the objectively inferior pitcher in the objectively most critical relief role is a good idea. In fact you seem to be struggling very badly to articulate any way in which it isn't a very, very bad idea.

 

And certainly you're clearly demonstrating that you didn't think this through anywhere near long enough to create a whole new thread on a topic already being discussed in, and fully capable of being posted in, at least one other thread, in clear violation of forum rules.

 

Um....I've been thinking about this for a while...Kimbrel has been shaky for a while now.....and Kimbrel's job has been primarily to get 3 outs....Barnes is coming in for 2 innings at times.....It's not fun watching your closer make 30 pitches to try and get 3 outs

Edited August 17, 2016 by Dalas21000

[Wade Boggs]

Kimbrel has gotten the job done in save situations, he's 21 out of 23 chances (plus the "hold" he was given in the 4 walk game last week, he didn't blow the save but he did pitch his way out of it.) He also is unscored on in 33/40 appearances. When Kimbrel blows up, he blows up spectacularly, but his issues have generally come in tied games and games where the Sox are behind. Given his psyche, I don't see putting him in a set-up role as working very well. And I acknowledge he's had some high wire acts, but overall he's gotten the job done. Not to mention he's got close to 250 major league saves over the past 6-7 years. Even Mariano Rivera, the GOAT, would blow a few saves a year.

 

Barnes has been spectacular at times and decidedly mediocre at others. Yeah, he's 1/1 in saves and has 10 holds, but he's been scored on in 15 out of 46 appearances and only lately has begun making regular appearances in the 8th inning.

 

Now is not the time to experiment.

 

Agree. With the Kimbrel injury and Koji going down as well, Barnes has had more of a larger role. The pressure has been on him a lot. I like him, but he's been trick or treat. jmo that's all.

[Dalas21000]

And that almost matters. The Yankees are behind us in the standings and likely to remain so for the balance of the year. The teams to beat are Baltimore and Toronto. It's always nice to beat the Yankees, but there is literally no point in trying to stack the team against NYY at any time, but especially not when NYY is already worse than we are.

 

This is not the last 2 decades when the only way to advance was to get through NYY. I don't care what this team does against New York right now as long as they hold their place in the standings.

 

Youre right, the Yankees probably won't catch Boston in the standings but they just beat them twice in a 3 game series.....When is Boston going to start winning the games that they should win?

[Wade Boggs]

To make this very clear , I want Kimbrel to be the closer. I have nothing against him. I also think he is not a 100%. But can still pitch and help the team out. He is a DIRTDOG.