Sox Pitching Staff Discussion

[Bellhorn04]

What Price is being paid has no relevance to his performance. He is not pitching up to his talent level, using all performance only statistical measures. His dollar value is only of concern to the accounting department. His non salary related numbers are not up to his normal level.

 

But if you take a close look at his numbers you will see some definite good signs.

 

His strikeouts per 9 are better than his career avg.

His walks per 9 are better than his career avg.

 

What's doing all the damage is his hits per 9.

 

He is also now leading the AL in innings pitched.

[devildavid]

But if you take a close look at his numbers you will see some definite good signs.

 

His strikeouts per 9 are better than his career avg.

His walks per 9 are better than his career avg.

 

What's doing all the damage is his hits per 9.

 

He is also now leading the AL in innings pitched.

 

Here is the batting line against Price so far: .271/.315/.419/.734

Not good numbers for David Price. Until these come down, any other good numbers don't really matter.

[a700hitter]

He is clearly pitching below his career norms, but he is still giving us innings which is critical for the team and he has not been atrocious. He has pitched more like a 3/4 than a #1. But he is not going anywhere no matter how much people whine. He will either right his own ship or not. Management cannot do anything about it. Management can improve other obviously flawed aspects of this team. Hopefully, they are working on that and they are not sitting wringing their hands over David Price. Edited July 29, 2016 by a700hitter

[Spudboy]

He is clearly pitching below his career norms, but he is still giving us innings which is critical for the team and he is not atrocious. He has pitched more like a 3/4 than a #1. But he is not going anywhere no matter how much people whine. He will either right his own ship or not. Management cannot do anything about it. Management can improve other obviously flawed aspects of this team. Hopefully, they are working on that and they are not sitting wringing their hands over David Price.

 

This.

[devildavid]

He is clearly pitching below his career norms, but he is still giving us innings which is critical for the team and he has not been atrocious. He has pitched more like a 3/4 than a #1. But he is not going anywhere no matter how much people whine. He will either right his own ship or not. Management cannot do anything about it. Management can improve other obviously flawed aspects of this team. Hopefully, they are working on that and they are not sitting wringing their hands over David Price.

 

Price is not contributing any more in innings relative to Wright and Porcello. He has started 2 more games than both of them, which is expected from your number one pitcher. The avg. innings per start is:

 

Wright 6.6

Price 6.5

Porcello 6.3

 

Management is responsible for getting the best performances they can out of all their players. They have not done this with Price. It is unlikely they will add another top starter in 2016. Price's performance for the rest of the season is a major key to their playoff hopes. I'm happy to see that he had an excellent performance in his last start. If he can achieve quality performance consistency for the rest of the season he will silence any "whining" from me.

[Jack Flap]

Not much to ague with there. Price wasn't paid millions to go 15-10

 

I couldn't care less about his W-L record.

[moonslav59]

But if you take a close look at his numbers you will see some definite good signs.

 

His strikeouts per 9 are better than his career avg.

His walks per 9 are better than his career avg.

 

What's doing all the damage is his hits per 9.

 

He is also now leading the AL in innings pitched.

 

Maybe he's trying too hard for Ks and is leaving the ball over the plate more often than normal- hence more hits.

[a700hitter]

Price is not contributing any more in innings relative to Wright and Porcello. He has started 2 more games than both of them, which is expected from your number one pitcher. The avg. innings per start is:

 

Wright 6.6

Price 6.5

Porcello 6.3

 

Management is responsible for getting the best performances they can out of all their players. They have not done this with Price. It is unlikely they will add another top starter in 2016. Price's performance for the rest of the season is a major key to their playoff hopes. I'm happy to see that he had an excellent performance in his last start. If he can achieve quality performance consistency for the rest of the season he will silence any "whining" from me.

The innings that we are getting from those 3 is not a problem. The problem has been what we get out of the other 2 spots.

 

"Management is responsible for getting the best performances they can out of all their players. They have not done this with Price."

 

Wut? Is DD supposed to give Price a clinic on pitching? This is just not how it works at the major league level.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe he's trying too hard for Ks and is leaving the ball over the plate more often than normal- hence more hits.

 

Possibly not pitching inside enough, or not effectively enough inside, and hitters are able to look out over the plate. Price mentioned one game that he had not thrown any good inside strikes to RH hitters that game.

[SoxnCycles]

Possibly not pitching inside enough, or not effectively enough inside, and hitters are able to look out over the plate. Price mentioned one game that he had not thrown any good inside strikes to RH hitters that game.

 

I didn't see last night's game, so I don't know if this applies to that game, but you don't see a lot of hitters looking uncomfortable while facing Price.

Intimidation is usually a big part of an "ace's" game.

[moonslav59]

I couldn't care less about his W-L record.

Team record in starts matters:

Price 11-11

Wright 12-8

Porcello 15-5

[cp176]

Price is not contributing any more in innings relative to Wright and Porcello. He has started 2 more games than both of them, which is expected from your number one pitcher. The avg. innings per start is:

 

Wright 6.6

Price 6.5

Porcello 6.3

 

Management is responsible for getting the best performances they can out of all their players. They have not done this with Price. It is unlikely they will add another top starter in 2016. Price's performance for the rest of the season is a major key to their playoff hopes. I'm happy to see that he had an excellent performance in his last start. If he can achieve quality performance consistency for the rest of the season he will silence any "whining" from me.

 

What do think - a little motivational speech from JH get the job done? Going out on a limb here I know but i still like thinking that all of our pitchers are responsible for their own performances. i'm not quite ready to give up on David Price just yet.

[mvp 78]

Team record in starts matters:

Price 11-11

Wright 12-8

Porcello 15-5

 

Nope. Too many variables that don't take his performance into account.

[moonslav59]

Nope. Too many variables that don't take his performance into account.

 

I'm not saying it's a very important number, but it does "matter".

[Jack Flap]

Sure, and the pitcher who goes 22-4 probably had a better season than the one who went 4-22... it's just about the last thing I'd look at in order to determine whether a pitcher is performing well or not. (Last night is the perfect example as to why.)

[mvp 78]

Sure, and the pitcher who goes 22-4 probably had a better season than the one who went 4-22... it's just about the last thing I'd look at in order to determine whether a pitcher is performing well or not. (Last night is the perfect example as to why.)

 

Is the 4-22 guy peak Felix Hernandez?

[devildavid]

The innings that we are getting from those 3 is not a problem. The problem has been what we get out of the other 2 spots.

 

"Management is responsible for getting the best performances they can out of all their players. They have not done this with Price."

 

Wut? Is DD supposed to give Price a clinic on pitching? This is just not how it works at the major league level.

 

The coaching staff is part of management. DD is their boss, and shares the responsibility for player performance.

[a700hitter]

The coaching staff is part of management. DD is their boss, and shares the responsibility for player performance.

Price is going to figure it out on his own if he figures it out. Guru pitching coaches at the major league level are mythical. The organization's efforts would have more concrete results if they get another pitcher to fill the back of the rotation.

[devildavid]

Price is going to figure it out on his own if he figures it out. Guru pitching coaches at the major league level are mythical. The organization's efforts would have more concrete results if they get another pitcher to fill the back of the rotation.

 

Pitching coaches don't need to be gurus to help pitchers. Sometimes they can spot problems that pitchers can't. Good coaches are a resource for players to help them maximize their performances.

[Bellhorn04]

Pitching coaches don't need to be gurus to help pitchers. Sometimes they can spot problems that pitchers can't. Good coaches are a resource for players to help them maximize their performances.

 

Possibly. But with all the modern tech pitchers can do a lot of self-analysis with video and charts and such.

 

God knows what Carl Willis does, seriously. He doesn't seem to be helping too many guys.

[a700hitter]

Pitching coaches don't need to be gurus to help pitchers. Sometimes they can spot problems that pitchers can't. Good coaches are a resource for players to help them maximize their performances.

And you think that they haven't been working with Price all season long?

[moonslav59]

And you think that they haven't been working with Price all season long?

 

It always cracks me up when people say things like, "Management needs to tell that guy to concentrate more and stop striking out."

[S5Dewey]

It always cracks me up when people say things like, "Management needs to tell that guy to concentrate more and stop striking out."

 

What? You mean it's NOT that easy? That a manager can't simply tell a hitter to get more hits or a pitcher to throw more strikes and have it magically happen? Blasphemy, I tell you, it's blasphemy!

[sk7326]

What Price is being paid has no relevance to his performance. He is not pitching up to his talent level, using all performance only statistical measures. His dollar value is only of concern to the accounting department. His non salary related numbers are not up to his normal level.

 

He has certainly not gotten the results - how much of that is bad performance vs bad luck is certainly an open question. But obviously people should be disappointed.

[Slasher9]

Pitching coaches don't need to be gurus to help pitchers. Sometimes they can spot problems that pitchers can't. Good coaches are a resource for players to help them maximize their performances.

 

We all heard about how Pedroia was the one to notice and point out the change in prices delivery. Papa smurf should have been fired and replaced that day for not being the one to notice it.....

[Dojji]

We all heard about how Pedroia was the one to notice and point out the change in prices delivery. Papa smurf should have been fired and replaced that day for not being the one to notice it.....

 

Now now, we've all been that guy who's heard it from management again and again and only when we hear it from a friend who words it a little differently does it really sink in. The brain is a funny little computer, it's not always fully logical.

[wyo-sox]

We all heard about how Pedroia was the one to notice and point out the change in prices delivery. Papa smurf should have been fired and replaced that day for not being the one to notice it.....

1, I can only imagine what Prices mind was thinking while Dustin was giving him pitching advice... 2, Overall Price has still sucked since that happened.

[dustcover]

Kinda reminds me of the carpenter strolling along the beach as the fishing boats were coming in, barren of any fish, and him telling Peter that he could show him where and how to catch more fish.

[moonslav59]

What? You mean it's NOT that easy? That a manager can't simply tell a hitter to get more hits or a pitcher to throw more strikes and have it magically happen? Blasphemy, I tell you, it's blasphemy!

 

I remember softy the clown used to always say things like that. He really meant it- I think.

[devildavid]

It always cracks me up when people say things like, "Management needs to tell that guy to concentrate more and stop striking out."

 

I didn't say anything about management telling a guy to do something. But management sets a tone and provides resources and should make sure players are using every resource possible. Management can act in a spectrum from laissez-faire to micro-managing. Good management knows how to motivate, provide resources for players to use for improvement, and set a tone for expected behavior and effort. Poorly managed teams allow players to be sloppy and lack motivation. I don't assume all athletes are self-motivated or don't need some kind of coaching to help them develop their game, even at the major league level. It is management's ultimate responsibility to get the best out of their team with all the skill, tools, and experience at their disposal.