Sox Pitching Staff Discussion

[User Name]

Man UN, you and I are agreeing more than usual now. Sign of the times. Shields has an unpalatable back loaded contract paying him at an ace rate. He's not an ace anymore and adjusting for park factors, he's more a 3 right now. Upton is vastly overpaid and his production is starting to wane after a hot start. If the sox ate both contracts, they'd get Rodney as a throw in and would need to send back a B level player at best.

 

It means you're starting to be right about things.

[moonslav59]

Adding Shields would be adding another Porcello. A mid-rotation guy you're paying 19 million a year plus tax. Not really the answer.

 

We'd be swapping bad contracts by getting rid of Castillo.

 

I'll take another Porcello over Buch and Kelly any day.

[mvp 78]

Trading Devers and getting that as a return should get DUMBrowski a sweet unemployment check.

[User Name]

Giving up Devers and Swihart in the process? That's insanity.

[Bellhorn04]

We'd be swapping bad contracts by getting rid of Castillo.

 

I'll take another Porcello over Buch and Kelly any day.

 

I'm thinking more in terms of the Padres dumping his salary in return for a good prospect, rather than a big transaction such as you're proposing.

[Dojji]

Which good prospect? Let's get specific here.

[Bellhorn04]

Which good prospect? Let's get specific here.

 

I was just speaking hypothetically. I don't think a trade for Shields is a viable option because of his salary and our payroll situation.

[Kimmi]

My point was that if there was a worthy pitcher available then my choice would be to let go of swihart for that pitcher. I doubt anyone has lost sight of how talented he is. In fact, to see how well hes done in LF just speaks to his athleticism and to just how much value he has...

 

If Swihart can be part of a package to bring back a solid starter, then I'd do that in a heartbeat. I love the guy and would hate to see him go, but I'd rather part with him than part with Betts, Bogaerts, or Bradley.

 

I agree that his value to another team as a catcher could make him worth more to us as a trade chip than as our left fielder.

[Bellhorn04]

Swihart is a very likely goner in a trade for a starter.

[Kimmi]

Swihart is a very likely goner in a trade for a starter.

 

He makes the most sense, IMO.

 

I think other GMs value him pretty highly.

[dustcover]

http://i.imgur.com/7NlFkZA.jpg

[Spudboy]

They could have kept him. Then they could have gotten him back.

 

I think they f***ed up both times.

[iortiz]

Shields has had a great season thus far. His current ERA is over 4 because his last start was simply a very bad day. Before his last start his ERA was at 3.03. Also I had the opportunity to watch him pitch sometimes. In some games he pitched like an ace. In others not like an ace but very solid--No.1&2 type. He could be a decent No. 2 or at very least, a solid 3 who can keep his ERA under 4, easily -- his track record before last game back up this.

 

On the other hand I'm not sure what would it take to land Shields. IMO it won't take that much.

 

If you don't want Shields, who do you want? A top-young-controlled arm like Syndergar or Carrasco? LOL! Keep dreaming, It's not gonna happen and if so be prepared to deforest the whole farm.

 

His profile is oks to me.

 

Also, our major problem is the BP IMO. Aside Kimbrel, no one is reliable.

[moonslav59]

 

I'm thinking more in terms of the Padres dumping his salary in return for a good prospect, rather than a big transaction such as you're proposing.

 

I was just speaking hypothetically. I don't think a trade for Shields is a viable option because of his salary and our payroll situation.

 

 

If we dump Castillo and take on Shields, Upton and Rodney, the money is a wash.

 

If we give them Swihart and/or Devers plus maybe Owens or Johnson, then they also get the big prospect the want.

 

Maybe Castillo plays for them and does well. I still have not given up on him, although the Sox seem to have.

[moonslav59]

I get the risk involved with Tehran, but he's young and under team control.

 

I'd offer Swihart and Owens or Johnson for him.

[iortiz]

I get the risk involved with Tehran, but he's young and under team control.

 

I'd offer Swihart and Owens or Johnson for him.

I don't think, it would land Teheran.

 

They will ask the moon for him, if so. Wait and see.

[User Name]

Shields has had a great season thus far. His current ERA is over 4 because his last start was simply a very bad day. Before his last start his ERA was at 3.03. Also I had the opportunity to watch him pitch sometimes. In some games he pitched like an ace. In others not like an ace but very solid--No.1&2 type. He could be a decent No. 2 or at very least, a solid 3 who can keep his ERA under 4, easily -- his track record before last game back up this.

 

On the other hand I'm not sure what would it take to land Shields. IMO it won't take that much.

 

If you don't want Shields, who do you want? A top-young-controlled arm like Syndergar or Carrasco? LOL! Keep dreaming, It's not gonna happen and if so be prepared to deforest the whole farm.

 

His profile is oks to me.

 

Also, our major problem is the BP IMO. Aside Kimbrel, no one is reliable.

 

I'd love Shields, but as a straight salary dump with a middling prospect, not Swihart and Devers while taking on a crappy OF and inconsistent reliever.

[Emp9]

I get the risk involved with Tehran, but he's young and under team control.

 

I'd offer Swihart and Owens or Johnson for him.

 

[Bellhorn04]

[/i]

 

 

If we dump Castillo and take on Shields, Upton and Rodney, the money is a wash.

 

If we give them Swihart and/or Devers plus maybe Owens or Johnson, then they also get the big prospect the want.

 

Maybe Castillo plays for them and does well. I still have not given up on him, although the Sox seem to have.

 

If the money is a wash I can't see the Padres biting. They'll be able to trade Shields somewhere for a prospect or two and get salary relief in the process.

[iortiz]

I'd love Shields, but as a straight salary dump with a middling prospect, not Swihart and Devers while taking on a crappy OF and inconsistent reliever.

 

IMO It doesn't make sense for the SDP having Shields in their roster with that salary. A salary dump and couple of middling prospects could work out IMO.

 

Not sure how BJ and Rodney came to the table but both are having a solid season as far I recall.

[User Name]

IMO It doesn't make sense for the SDP having Shields in their roster with that salary. A salary dump and couple of middling prospects could work out IMO.

 

Not sure how BJ and Rodney came to the table but both are having a solid season as far I recall.

 

BJ has fallen off the map after a scorching start (steal of home notwithstanding). Rodney is a good year, bad year guy who seems to be on his game, so he may be a good get.

[harmony]

BJ has fallen off the map after a scorching start (steal of home notwithstanding). Rodney is a good year, bad year guy who seems to be on his game, so he may be a good get.

Melvin Upton has been valued at 2.5 fWAR ($20.2 million) in 143 games since the start of the 2015 season. Upton has far more value than Rusney Castillo, whose costly contract should be of no interest to the San Diego Padres.

[harmony]

IMO It doesn't make sense for the SDP having Shields in their roster with that salary. A salary dump and couple of middling prospects could work out IMO.

 

Not sure how BJ and Rodney came to the table but both are having a solid season as far I recall.

It may come down to what team offers the best "middling prospects." I suspect the Padres would prefer quality prospects over salary relief but will likely look at a combination of both.

[Bellhorn04]

Melvin Upton has been valued at 2.5 fWAR ($20.2 million) in 143 games since the start of the 2015 season. Upton has far more value than Rusney Castillo, whose costly contract should be of no interest to the San Diego Padres.

 

Agreed, they would have no interest in being saddled with paying about $50 million to Castillo.

[Emp9]

 

Dombrowski said today that he was ready to make a trade. Finding a trade partner, however, is a whole other story.

 

Of course, that's why we hired him in the first place, no?

[moonslav59]

Agreed, they would have no interest in being saddled with paying about $50 million to Castillo.

 

It's not about them wanting Castillo. The rumors have the Padres willing to pay part of Shields' contract. They'd probably pay part of Upton's contract as well to get rid of him and his $16.5M 2017 contract.

 

I'm sure the Padres would rather take Castillo than just pay $40M to someone to take these two guys. Castillo still has upside potential.

 

Then, adding Swihart is a great get for the Padres. Adding Devers to get Rodney might be too steep, so maybe we could downgrade my offer to Swihart, Owens AND Johnson plus throw in someone like TBall or Stanki for the three of them.

[moonslav59]

Not sure how BJ and Rodney came to the table but both are having a solid season as far I recall.

 

Kind of like how we had to give up AGon to dump CC and Beckett.

 

The Padres are toast this year. They'd like to cut salary this year and going forward. Dumping Shields and Melvin and their big contracts without taking back Castillo would certainly lessen the return prospect cost, so maybe that's the route to take, but we also don't want to tie our hands financially next year as we lose Papi, Koji and Taz. I added Rodney, since we really need pen help, and we have the prospects any team drools over.

 

I agree that Swihart and Devers is too steep.

 

I do think we can find the right package to land these three. The reason I added Melvin was to replace Swihart in LF and provide salary relief to the Padres. Paying $25M next year for Upton and Young seems hideous, especially when you figure we have Moncada and/or Benintendi near ML ready, but maybe we can find a way to deal them next winter.

[moonslav59]

I think Rodney has yet to let up a run all year in over 20 IP.

[User Name]

Melvin Upton has been valued at 2.5 fWAR ($20.2 million) in 143 games since the start of the 2015 season. Upton has far more value than Rusney Castillo, whose costly contract should be of no interest to the San Diego Padres.

 

I'm arguing against trading for Upton or including top prospects/Rusney in the deal. I think that's pretty clear in my post.

[Palodios]

The AL Central looks scary right now. The defending champs, plus a beastly rotation in Cleveland, plus the Tigers, and now the White Sox locked in on Shields? Who wins that division?