Referendum on John Farrell

[Kimmi]

I don't like the way Farrell stands and watches the game. He doesn't rock back and forth and spit enough.

 

There is and there can only be one Sit and Spit.

[Kimmi]

I'm just glad that Farrell decided he didn't need Wright to be able to pitch down the stretch. They really didn't need their 3rd (maybe 4th) best starter for the stretch run.

 

"Since Steven Wright got hurt/they lost final game of West Coast trip to the Dodgers, Red Sox are 27-14 and have gained 7.5 games in the East"

[SoxnCycles]

"Since Steven Wright got hurt/they lost final game of West Coast trip to the Dodgers, Red Sox are 27-14 and have gained 7.5 games in the East"

 

I blame Farrell for the 4 game division lead.

[Slasher9]

Fire Farrell....Trade Pedroia.....DFA Clay

 

that is all.

[Dojji]

You can tell the team is going well because this thread is relaxed and usually low on the board.

[mvp 78]

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/baseballs-savviest-and-crappiest-bullpen-managers/

 

Girardi sux tho?

[Slasher9]

i dont even need to click on your article to know that Girardi sucks.

all losses are the managers fault

JF is a terrible manager

Girardi is 5-11 head to head vs JF this season.

Girardi is a worse manager than JF.

JF = Terrible

Girardi = More Terrible than Terrible

[mvp 78]

i dont even need to click on your article to know that Girardi sucks.

all losses are the managers fault

JF is a terrible manager

Girardi is 5-11 head to head vs JF this season.

Girardi is a worse manager than JF.

JF = Terrible

Girardi = More Terrible than Terrible

 

I don't even need to read the above post to know that Slasher9 will always agree with whatever I say no matter what.

[Slasher9]

Fire Farrell - Trade Pedroia - DFA Clay

[Kimmi]

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/baseballs-savviest-and-crappiest-bullpen-managers/

 

Girardi sux tho?

 

My takeaways from this article:

 

1. Farrell is not on either list. In other words, his BP management is not as bad as some have made it out to be.

 

2. This passage: "Perhaps surprisingly, we found that bullpen management — good or bad — doesn’t actually affect a team’s overall performance all that much. Certainly it’s not as important as, say, having good relievers to employ in the first place."

 

Plus this passage: "In other words, bullpen management isn’t the be-all and end-all of managerial skills. That fits with what we already knew about managers: How they shape the chemistry and morale of the team tends to be vastly more important than their on-field tactical machinations, no matter how high-profile those machinations might be."

 

3. They referenced DRA. {Love}

[Maxbialystock]

It is instructive to contrast this September with September 2011, which basically cost Francona his job because the Sox literally collapsed that September and the beer and chicken stories convinced the FO that Francona had lost the clubhouse.

 

While I suspect Farrell has done well with the clubhouse environment/motivation, I think the real story is the September call-ups and the return of Uehara, Kelly, and Ziegler to the bullpen. Suddenly Farrell had some pretty good options out there in the bullpen, so many in fact that he could jerk a weak starter early in the game which he did repeatedly --as he had not done earlier in the season.

 

I am not suggesting that Farrell is a genius. Far from it. I give the lion's share of the credit, as always, to the players, which is as it should be. During this transforming 8 game winning streak I give Farrell little or no credit for the fact that the Sox never scored fewer than 5 runs in any game. I do give him credit for using his bullpen well, especially in the first 4 games against the Yankees, but I also think those moves were just common sense. He was just using the tools the call-up and the return of Uehara, et al, had given him.

[jacksonianmarch]

Farrell didn't just earn his job back, he's earned an extension. Those who wanted Lovullo to take the reigns aren't gonna be happy. Farrell is a Francona clone. Let the players play and manage the egos. Well, it took 2 years to develop the players and now you have a team loaded with young, top notch proven major league stars. He's looking like a genius right now

[Dojji]

He was just using the tools the call-up and the return of Uehara, et al, had given him.

 

Max... max... that is literally his entire job. What you're saying is that he's done his job correctly.

 

How do you statistically quantify disasters avoided? How do you credit errors not made? How do you track pitfalls not fallen into? How do you analyze shipwrecks not made because the people in charge did their jobs? This is actually a real problem with analytics, trying to quantify exactly this thing. Sometimes there's an easy answer (in baseball, you usually have a baseline behavior to compare with) but not always.

 

Usually the best job a manager can do is exactly that though -- walk the tightrope while keeping all the balls in the air and not dropping any. If he can accomplish that in a given game, he's done a good job, if only by virtue of not doing an obnoxiously bad one. If he drops one, we tend to notice, if he doesn't, we often only notice the players, because managing tends to only make a spectacle of itself when it's making head-shaking decisions.

 

The best standard by which you can judge a manager is, if you don't notice him in the game, if the players play and the game resolves and you don't once care about what the manager is doing, then he's had a pretty good game. If the manager becomes the show, something's gone wrong. So yeah, a series of very smooth games in which nothing major goes wrong? Farrell deserves at least partial credit for that, because it's his job to make sure nothing does go wrong.

[Slasher9]

edited. that is all.

[Maxbialystock]

Max... max... that is literally his entire job. What you're saying is that he's done his job correctly.

 

How do you statistically quantify disasters avoided? How do you credit errors not made? How do you track pitfalls not fallen into? How do you analyze shipwrecks not made because the people in charge did their jobs? This is actually a real problem with analytics, trying to quantify exactly this thing. Sometimes there's an easy answer (in baseball, you usually have a baseline behavior to compare with) but not always.

 

Usually the best job a manager can do is exactly that though -- walk the tightrope while keeping all the balls in the air and not dropping any. If he can accomplish that in a given game, he's done a good job, if only by virtue of not doing an obnoxiously bad one. If he drops one, we tend to notice, if he doesn't, we often only notice the players, because managing tends to only make a spectacle of itself when it's making head-shaking decisions.

 

The best standard by which you can judge a manager is, if you don't notice him in the game, if the players play and the game resolves and you don't once care about what the manager is doing, then he's had a pretty good game. If the manager becomes the show, something's gone wrong. So yeah, a series of very smooth games in which nothing major goes wrong? Farrell deserves at least partial credit for that, because it's his job to make sure nothing does go wrong.

 

We will have to agree to disagree, then. I expect managers to make rational decisions and don't normally judge by the outcomes--what you call walking the tightrope and averting disasters. If anything, I agree with Kimmi that his chief contribution is in the clubhouse, which is invisible to us. I strongly believe that "head-shaking decisions" are mostly in the eye of the beholder and that making "sure nothing does go wrong" is impossible. If any manager could actually achieve that consistently, it wouldn't be baseball. Errors are made. Pitchers make mistakes. Batters miss pitches, signs, you name it. Baserunners make mistakes.

[bosoxmal]

It took JF a long time to recognize what a strting lineup should look like. That is, leadoff guy who take a lot of pitches, and bloop singles to reight field, huys in the 3 and 4 spots who drive in runs. He finally recognized that, and he finally had abullpen to work with. I was ready to give up on him, but I at least revel in the dugout shots that show him bot chewing gum or throwing crap into his mouth all night. Yes, right now I would re-sign him.

 

He's proving that nice guys don't always finish last, so I guess I'll troll along for the the rest of this season.

[User Name]

Lineup construction has never been Farrell's problem. Pitching management had (ironically) been his weak spot. He's been pushing all the right buttons for a while now though.

[sk7326]

Lineup construction has never been Farrell's problem. Pitching management had (ironically) been his weak spot. He's been pushing all the right buttons for a while now though.

 

i think earlier there has been a level of managing the season - not to say I agreed with a lot of his pitching moves. But as the season has gotten later the hooks have gotten quicker. And I think Uehara's return has allowed a lot of other stuff to fall into place.

[Kimmi]

Meanwhile, the supposed 'great' managers Gerardi and Buck were schooled by Farrell this past week.

[mvp 78]

http://deadspin.com/john-farrell-to-sassy-fan-why-dont-you-shut-your-ass-1787278066

 

I guess he can stay a little while longer.

[User Name]

Extend this man!

[SoxHop]

http://deadspin.com/john-farrell-to-sassy-fan-why-dont-you-shut-your-ass-1787278066

 

I guess he can stay a little while longer.

 

I didn't know d-money had such a wicked Boston accent...

[Spudboy]

http://deadspin.com/john-farrell-to-sassy-fan-why-dont-you-shut-your-ass-1787278066

 

I guess he can stay a little while longer.

 

I saw this earlier today.

 

Major points scored with me.

[Kimmi]

For all of our Farrell fans:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/how-should-we-evaluate-a-manager/

 

"In sum, we have some arguments for the managers who will be on the short list for American League Manager of the Year. John Farrell, John Gibbons, and Buck Showalter do well across the board, while Jeff Banister and Terry Francona have their strengths and weaknesses."

[a700hitter]

I have always liked Farrell.

[Kimmi]

I have always liked Farrell.

 

Of course. There is good reason to.

[a700hitter]

He is a doofus but I like him.

[Bellhorn04]

I have always liked Farrell.

 

One thing you might like in that particular article is that they measure 'Wins Above Monkey' instead of 'Wins Above Replacement'.

 

Dusty Baker was .5 wins worse than a monkey in one of the bullpen management categories.

[sk7326]

And the genius Buck Showalter just left Zach Britton twiddling his thumbs as Edwin Encarnacion ended their season

[Spudboy]

And the genius Buck Showalter just left Zach Britton twiddling his thumbs as Edwin Encarnacion ended their season

 

I thought that he explained his decision quite well.

 

I'm sure he knows much more about his team and the game of baseball than some "fan".