Referendum on John Farrell

[Bellhorn04]

That's a sensible statement, but I have to repeat: if bullpens aren't important, why did Epstein, whose team has the best record in MLB, a solid bullpen, and a very solid manager, go out and get Chapman of the Yankees? And why does every single MLB team have 12 out of 25 roster spots for pitchers alone and just 13 to cover the other 8 positions (or in the case of the AL, the other 9 positions)? Indeed, the five starters on average pitch over the half the innings, which leaves maybe 3 (no more than 4) innings on average for the 7 guys in the bullpen to cover.

 

I personally focus mostly on the rotation and the lineup, but smart GM's give due diligence to that bullpen. Did you know that the Sox ERA in the 2013 playoffs was 2.00 and the bullpen, which gave up 2 runs in 16 games, was even better than that?

 

Bullpens are huge, there's no question about it, and a really good one minimizes the number of mistakes a manager can possibly make.

[a700hitter]

No, he is not a terrible tactician. If he were, DD would not hesitate to fire him and the Sox could never have overcome his terribleness in 2013.

 

The 2013 team routinely overcame JF's bad game decisions. I will give him credit for pressing the right buttons in the post season and he completely outmanaged Matheny in the World Series. However, I still think that he is a terrible game tactician.

[Kimmi]

A pretty strong case can be made that the decision did in fact cost the Red Sox the game.

 

There is far too much that goes on in a game to pin a loss on one managerial decision.

[Bellhorn04]

There is far too much that goes on in a game to pin a loss on one managerial decision.

 

It can never be done?

[Bellhorn04]

The Grady Little situation was about him ignoring clear-cut instructions to remove Pedro at 105 pitches, this was based on data presented to him by Theo. Little ignored the edict and Pedro gave up 3 runs. Hypothetically, Grady's decision cost 4 runs, and we would have won 5-2 instead of losing 6-5. (There's some uncertainty in there.) The decision probably cost him his job. So it was one of the all-time costly decisions, hypothetically.

[Kimmi]

It can never be done?

 

IMO, no. One decision, one play, etc. never solely determines the outcome of the game.

[Kimmi]

The Grady Little situation was about him ignoring clear-cut instructions to remove Pedro at 105 pitches, this was based on data presented to him by Theo. Little ignored the edict and Pedro gave up 3 runs. Hypothetically, Grady's decision cost 4 runs, and we would have won 5-2 instead of losing 6-5. (There's some uncertainty in there.) The decision probably cost him his job. So it was one of the all-time costly decisions, hypothetically.

 

FTR, I agree with you that Little should have removed Pedro. However, there is no guarantee that either Timlin nor Embree would have preserved the lead. If I recall correctly, the Yankees hitters had some pretty good numbers against Timlin.

 

The point is, we don't know what might have happened otherwise. Also, there are always missed opportunities that occur before or after a "bad" decision that affect the game.

 

The outcome cannot be pinpointed on one decision.

[Bellhorn04]

FTR, I agree with you that Little should have removed Pedro. However, there is no guarantee that either Timlin nor Embree would have preserved the lead. If I recall correctly, the Yankees hitters had some pretty good numbers against Timlin.

 

Actually, Timlin and Embree were both lights out that postseason. Combined numbers:

 

10 IP

4 hits

0 runs

2 walks

7 K's

 

And Timlin's total numbers vs. the Yankees for 2003, regular season and postseason:

 

13.1 IP

4 hits

2 runs

3 walks

12 K's

[Spudboy]

I remember watching that game and Pedro was clearly gassed. They were making very solid contact on him the previous inning.

 

Of course I was not on a game thread voicing my concern so my opinion now is not valid.

[Bellhorn04]

I remember watching that game and Pedro was clearly gassed. They were making very solid contact on him the previous inning.

 

Of course I was not on a game thread voicing my concern so my opinion now is not valid.

 

At the time I wasn't sure if Little was doing the right thing or not. I had my fingers crossed like all other Sox fans. But when I found out later about the instructions he had been given and all the numbers, I was livid at him.

[S5Dewey]

At the time I wasn't sure if Little was doing the right thing or not. I had my fingers crossed like all other Sox fans. But when I found out later about the instructions he had been given and all the numbers, I was livid at him.

 

I remember it like it was yesterday. I was saying, "For Chrissake, pull him! WTF do you think you're doing???. How the f*** did he talk you out of this?? You're the f***ing manager, not him. Make your decision and stick to it!!"

 

And when the game was over the thing I wanted to see the most was for John Henry to step over that short wall in front of his seat, walk into the dugout, point his finger in Grady's face and unmistakably say on National Television those two words I longed to year, "YOU'RE FIRED!!"

 

Funny, too, because I'm not usually that vindictive.

[Spudboy]

lol

 

Somehow I don't see Henry having the sack to do that.

 

He's more likely have an underling send an e-mail asking for his resignation.

[Behindenemylines]

Pitch running Wright still doesn't sit well with me. If it is the reason the Sox fall short of making the playoffs it could cost Farrell his job. Wright still isn't right and he had been so consistent the whole season.

[a700hitter]

Pitch running Wright still doesn't sit well with me. If it is the reason the Sox fall short of making the playoffs it could cost Farrell his job. Wright still isn't right and he had been so consistent the whole season.

He is still not right. He might miss his next start. It was the stupidest managerial move of the year. At least Grady didn't ask Pedro to run the bases.

 

[TABLE=width: 100%]

[TR]

[TD][h=1]‘POSSIBILITY’ STEVEN WRIGHT WON’T MAKE HIS NEXT START[/h][/TD]

[TD=align: right]09.02.16 at 9:25 pm ET[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

By Rob Bradford

http://fullcount.weei.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Wright_Steven-Red-Sox-head-15.jpgSteven Wright

OAKLAND — Things aren’t going as planned for Steven Wright.After coming off a four-inning outing Wednesday in which he gave up four runs, the knuckleballer revealed after the start he was still getting over hurdles both physically and mentally when it came to his ailing right shoulder.

In the two days since, it doesn’t appear as though there has been much improvement for Wright. Because of it, the righty’s scheduled start Tuesday in San Diego remains in doubt.

“He’s still a little bit feeling some of the symptoms in the shoulder,” said Red Sox manager John Farrell. “These next 24, 8 hours are probably going to be important in terms of what the rotation looks like in San Diego.”

Asked if Wright might miss the outing against the Padres, Farrell said, “There’s a possibility.”

If Wright isn’t able to make the start, it is unclear who would fill in for the 32-year-old. Farrell said the Red Sox hadn’t “got to that point yet” when asked about defining whether or not Clay Buchholz would once again be the fill-in.

Wright seemed to turn a corner after giving up five runs in his first inning back from the right shoulder injury, going on to pitch five shutout frames. But then came the most recent start, and then the days after.

[Spudboy]

Well we can all be thankful that Papi did not get hurt playing 1st base!!!!!

[Kimmi]

Actually, Timlin and Embree were both lights out that postseason. Combined numbers:

 

10 IP

4 hits

0 runs

2 walks

7 K's

 

And Timlin's total numbers vs. the Yankees for 2003, regular season and postseason:

 

13.1 IP

4 hits

2 runs

3 walks

12 K's

 

Our bullpen was pretty crappy all season. There was no guarantee that they would have preserved the lead.

 

I am not defending Grady's decision. Like virtually everyone else on the planet, I thought he should have pulled Pedro. All I'm saying is that we cannot pin the loss solely on him, regardless of how bad the decision was.

[Bellhorn04]

Our bullpen was pretty crappy all season. There was no guarantee that they would have preserved the lead.

 

I am not defending Grady's decision. Like virtually everyone else on the planet, I thought he should have pulled Pedro. All I'm saying is that we cannot pin the loss solely on him, regardless of how bad the decision was.

 

OK, one play or one decision can't ever be the sole factor, but they can be the single biggest factor.

[a700hitter]

Our bullpen was pretty crappy all season. There was no guarantee that they would have preserved the lead.

 

I am not defending Grady's decision. Like virtually everyone else on the planet, I thought he should have pulled Pedro. All I'm saying is that we cannot pin the loss solely on him, regardless of how bad the decision was.

Theo fired him because of that move. He fired him immediately after the World Series concluded. He would have fired him that evening if he could have. I could see the rage in his eyes after the game.

[Bellhorn04]

Theo fired him because of that move. He fired him immediately after the World Series concluded. He would have fired him that evening if he could have. I could see the rage in his eyes after the game.

 

It was reported that while the 8th inning was transpiring John Henry asked the other execs 'Can I fire him right now?'

[a700hitter]

It was reported that while the 8th inning was transpiring John Henry asked the other execs 'Can I fire him right now?'

When I saw the look in Theo's eyes after the game, I called my son and told him that Theo wanted to fire him on the spot. I never saw that look from Theo any other time. He was stunned and seething.

[devildavid]

The 2013 team routinely overcame JF's bad game decisions. I will give him credit for pressing the right buttons in the post season and he completely outmanaged Matheny in the World Series. However, I still think that he is a terrible game tactician.

 

Routinely?

[Kimmi]

OK, one play or one decision can't ever be the sole factor, but they can be the single biggest factor.

 

Fair enough.

 

I know I'm not going to convince you or anyone else that, before the fact, the difference in win expectancy of one decision over another is not as big as most of us think it is. When it doesn't work out, the change in win expectancy becomes huge.

 

That doesn't mean that a decision is not a bad decision, just that the decision itself doesn't impact a game as much as we think. It's the players ability or inability to execute that impacts the outcome of the game.

[Kimmi]

The 2013 team routinely overcame JF's bad game decisions. I will give him credit for pressing the right buttons in the post season and he completely outmanaged Matheny in the World Series. However, I still think that he is a terrible game tactician.

 

This brings back not so fond memories of the "they won in spite of Francoma" posts.

 

In both cases, it's simply not true.

[Bellhorn04]

Fair enough.

 

I know I'm not going to convince you or anyone else that, before the fact, the difference in win expectancy of one decision over another is not as big as most of us think it is. When it doesn't work out, the change in win expectancy becomes huge.

 

That doesn't mean that a decision is not a bad decision, just that the decision itself doesn't impact a game as much as we think. It's the players ability or inability to execute that impacts the outcome of the game.

 

As always, I highly respect your opinion on these matters even when it doesn't quite coincide with mine. It's not about who's right or wrong. This particular topic of the impact of decisions just interests me a lot.

 

As I said earlier, the crux of the whole Grady thing for me was the data about how the 2003 Pedro's effectiveness fell off dramatically at about 105 pitches and that was why Theo gave specific instructions.

 

Can we really blame Pedro for doing exactly what the data said he would do?

[a700hitter]

Fair enough.

 

I know I'm not going to convince you or anyone else that, before the fact, the difference in win expectancy of one decision over another is not as big as most of us think it is. When it doesn't work out, the change in win expectancy becomes huge.

 

That doesn't mean that a decision is not a bad decision, just that the decision itself doesn't impact a game as much as we think. It's the players ability or inability to execute that impacts the outcome of the game.

If manager's have little or no impact on games, they should eliminate the position as unnecessary and just let the coaches handle the onfield stuff. The GM could make the lineup and the Press Secretary could deal with the press. Of course I am being sarcastic, because managers tactical decisions do impact a team's win/loss record. That is why they have jobs, and most of these dopes need bench coaches because of the mental strain of the strategy.

[User Name]

I like Bruce Bochy.

[a700hitter]

I like Bruce Bochy.

He would top my list.

[User Name]

I dislike Maddon though. f*** him and his hippie ********.

[a700hitter]

I dislike Maddon though. f*** him and his hippie ********.

He is a good manager who thinks he is much smarter than he is.

[Spudboy]

I like Bruce Bochy.

 

Me too.

 

I still like Eric Wedge. Especially with a cast of young players.