A Realistic View at 2016

[User Name]

A's pitchers always look good pitching at home. It seems when they leave they get crushed.

 

Home ERA: 3.55 in in 28.1 IP.

 

Away ERA: 1.40 (!) in 38.2 IP.

 

These things take thirty seconds to verify.

[mvp 78]

Home ERA: 3.55 in in 28.1 IP.

 

Away ERA: 1.40 (!) in 38.2 IP.

 

These things take thirty seconds to verify.

 

The smell of raw sewage and garlic fries must be very distracting at O.co.

[Spudboy]

The smell of raw sewage and garlic fries must be very distracting at O.co.

 

I describe the Indian food cooked in my building as smelling like the combination of stale onions, burning tires, and decomposing organic waste.

 

I bet it's about the same.

[Hugh2]

Home ERA: 3.55 in in 28.1 IP.

 

Away ERA: 1.40 (!) in 38.2 IP.

 

These things take thirty seconds to verify.

 

I'm not exactly an angel here, but I've always been bothered by people who refuse to do an ounce of research and just post what they think, feel, or trust base don their own recollections. This is 2016, and when talking sports their is a whole world of knowledge and verifiable information clicks away.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

Home ERA: 3.55 in in 28.1 IP.

 

Away ERA: 1.40 (!) in 38.2 IP.

 

These things take thirty seconds to verify.

 

I'm talking historically.

 

How many times have we seen a pitcher from the A's get traded elsewhere and never come close to the numbers they produced in Oakland.

[Kimmi]

I meant sell vets: free agents to be Uehara & Tazawa and last options Buchholz & Hanigan. Maybe Young or Kelly.

I didn't mean sell the farm, unless we're talking Owens & Johnson. I'm done with those two, even though one could argue we're selling low.

 

I understood what you meant, and perhaps my use of the word 'sell' was not the best.

 

My 'NOOOOO' was in response to you entertaining the idea of this team becoming sellers. We are far from that point, IMO.

 

I think we should be buyers, but I don't think we should gut the farm to try to win it all this year.

 

Add a #3/4 starter, a solid reliever, and possibly an offensive upgrade at catcher, left field, or the bench. This would be in lieu of gutting the farm to obtain a #1/2 pitcher. This also assumes that the current players start performing like they are capable of performing.

[mvp 78]

I understood what you meant, and perhaps my use of the word 'sell' was not the best.

 

My 'NOOOOO' was in response to you entertaining the idea of this team becoming sellers. We are far from that point, IMO.

 

I think we should be buyers, but I don't think we should gut the farm to try to win it all this year.

 

Add a #3/4 starter, a solid reliever, and possibly an offensive upgrade at catcher, left field, or the bench. This would be in lieu of gutting the farm to obtain a #1/2 pitcher. This also assumes that the current players start performing like they are capable of performing.

 

I'm still on board with this for now.

[User Name]

@TBSB: You made a sweeping generalization. Sweeping generalizations are almost always incorrect.

 

Pitchers like Tim Hudson, Dan Haren, Tyson Ross, Trevor Cahill (who then lost it, but he was pretty good for a while in ARI after leaving Oakland), among others either blossomed after or were still good after leaving Oakland.

[Hugh2]

I'm talking historically.

 

How many times have we seen a pitcher from the A's get traded elsewhere and never come close to the numbers they produced in Oakland.

 

Oh...and what are the historical numbers? that's a simple and lazy argument. While ballpark factors are very real, they are also much more marginal and often over accounted for. Pitchers all too often do the exact opposite of what their league and park suggest (for better or worse)

 

Me and you had this same exact argument years ago about John Lackeys numbers at Fenway park. If I seem to recall, he pitched much better at home than away at Fenway park.

 

And guess what....I just looked it up!!!!!! in his first season his ERA was Home: 4.34 Away: 4.45 In 2013 it was 2.47 vs. 4.48 in 2014 it was 2.94 vs. 4.73

 

Despite pitching in a hitters friendly park none of that seemed to matter. If teams score appx 20% more runs, then a very rough quick assessment could be to assume a 20% higher ERA. A 3.00 ERA pitcher becomes a 3.6 ERA pitcher which is still really really really good in the A.L. EAST. Also you're talking about Rich Hill here, and in case your forgot he pitched for the Red Sox with a 1.65 career ERA at Fenway park. Sonny Gray has a career 3.07 in Oakland with only a slightly higher 3.27 on the road.

 

Ballpark factors are often not as big as people like you try to narrate as such, and sometimes they are completely irrelevant. And lets not forget that the home team factors into 50% of the numbers that calculate those factors and if it is an organization with little to no offensive talent then those number are often skewed.

 

So, how many times do we see any pitcher from any team go to a new ballpark and lay an egg?

[Hugh2]

@TBSB: You made a sweeping generalization. Sweeping generalizations are almost always incorrect.

 

Pitchers like Tim Hudson, Dan Haren, Tyson Ross, Trevor Cahill (who then lost it, but he was pretty good for a while in ARI after leaving Oakland), among others either blossomed after or were still good after leaving Oakland.

 

He must of meant everyone else besides those guys.

[Slasher9]

So, how many times do we see any pitcher from any team go to a new ballpark and lay an egg?

 

David Price.

[a700hitter]

David Price.

WE get your point. You are crossing the line into goofiness.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

He must of meant everyone else besides those guys.

 

I meant guys like Zito, Mulder and Harden just to name a few.

[User Name]

I meant guys like Zito, Mulder and Harden just to name a few.

 

Mulder already had shoulder/arm trouble by the time he got trade, Harden had absolutely terrible mechanics, was terribly fragile and was doomed from the start, and Zito had shown signs of regression way before he left Oakland. Give me a definitive example please.

[User Name]

David Price.

 

How much lunch money does he owe you? I will reimburse you so you can hop off the guy's dick. He's been here three months.

[robert vonhalle]

I understood what you meant, and perhaps my use of the word 'sell' was not the best.

 

My 'NOOOOO' was in response to you entertaining the idea of this team becoming sellers. We are far from that point, IMO.

 

I think we should be buyers, but I don't think we should gut the farm to try to win it all this year.

 

Add a #3/4 starter, a solid reliever, and possibly an offensive upgrade at catcher, left field, or the bench. This would be in lieu of gutting the farm to obtain a #1/2 pitcher. This also assumes that the current players start performing like they are capable of performing.

hope we do not use the farm to get another price!!!!!!!

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

Mulder already had shoulder/arm trouble by the time he got trade, Harden had absolutely terrible mechanics, was terribly fragile and was doomed from the start, and Zito had shown signs of regression way before he left Oakland. Give me a definitive example please.

 

Those are definitive example no matter what excuses you make for them.

[Slasher9]

How much lunch money does he owe you? I will reimburse you so you can hop off the guy's dick. He's been here three months.

 

actually im whatever the opposite of on the "guys d!c|

how many months should we give an "Ace" to prove himself? when he pitched decent games in a row i gave him credit. but the overall picture is.....not good.

[Hugh2]

I meant guys like Zito, Mulder and Harden just to name a few.

 

So what you're saying is sometimes guys leave teams, and past their prime or in a new market underperform?

 

You do realize that happens everywhere. But thank you for your 3 person sample size. FTR, Zito went to a NL ballpark that is notoriously pitchers friendly in a division that is also pitcher friendly.

 

Guys leave teams all the time and thrive/struggle. Saying there is some huge correlation because it's Oakland is just dumb.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

So what you're saying is sometimes guys leave teams, and past their prime or in a new market underperform?

 

You do realize that happens everywhere. But thank you for your 3 person sample size. FTR, Zito went to a NL ballpark that is notoriously pitchers friendly in a division that is also pitcher friendly.

 

Guys leave teams all the time and thrive/struggle. Saying there is some huge correlation because it's Oakland is just dumb.

 

I didn't say every pitcher, geez.

[User Name]

Those are definitive example no matter what excuses you make for them.

 

Bro, do you even logic?

 

Harden had been DL'd five times with shoulder/arm trouble before he left Oakland. Zito was coming off a year with a 1.40 WHIP before SF gave him that huge contract. The Mulder trade is debatable, but I think you need to get a dictionary and look up the word "definitive" so you know what it means.

 

 

And what about Aaron Harang? A guy who sucked in Oakland then actually went to a hitter's park in Cincinnati and had a pretty nice career. What about Gio Gonzalez?

[User Name]

actually im whatever the opposite of on the "guys d!c|

how many months should we give an "Ace" to prove himself? when he pitched decent games in a row i gave him credit. but the overall picture is.....not good.

 

I don't get it. I'm saying "he's been bad, but let's give him some time", while you're making borderline moronic statements. Porcello was f***ing terrible last year, and I made the exact same case for why we should give him time, while some idiots claimed he sucked and getting him was a mistake. Just have some goddamn patience.

[SoxnCycles]

I don't get it. I'm saying "he's been bad, but let's give him some time", while you're making borderline moronic statements. Porcello was f***ing terrible last year, and I made the exact same case for why we should give him time, while some idiots claimed he sucked and getting him was a mistake. Just have some goddamn patience.

 

How much time do you think this team has, before they're in serious trouble, standings-wise?

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

So what you're saying is sometimes guys leave teams, and past their prime or in a new market underperform?

 

You do realize that happens everywhere. But thank you for your 3 person sample size. FTR, Zito went to a NL ballpark that is notoriously pitchers friendly in a division that is also pitcher friendly.

 

Guys leave teams all the time and thrive/struggle. Saying there is some huge correlation because it's Oakland is just dumb.

 

Lol, couple of posts ago you stated ballpark factors are over rated and now you come back with pitcher friendly ballpark.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

Bro, do you even logic?

 

Harden had been DL'd five times with shoulder/arm trouble before he left Oakland. Zito was coming off a year with a 1.40 WHIP before SF gave him that huge contract. The Mulder trade is debatable, but I think you need to get a dictionary and look up the word "definitive" so you know what it means.

 

 

And what about Aaron Harang? A guy who sucked in Oakland then actually went to a hitter's park in Cincinnati and had a pretty nice career. What about Gio Gonzalez?

 

Please point out where I stated every pitcher that leaves Oakland blows up.

[User Name]

How much time do you think this team has, before they're in serious trouble, standings-wise?

 

Honestly? They are already in serious trouble. The rotation is not providing quality or innings as a unit, and that's killing a BP that relies on a guy who's been horribly overworked the last three years, and a 40-year-old that's effective, but needs his IP carefully managed.

[User Name]

Please point out where I stated every pitcher that leaves Oakland blows up.

 

You're pretty strong, moving those goalposts all by yourself.

[User Name]

A's pitchers always look good pitching at home. It seems when they leave they get crushed.

 

lol

[mvp 78]

Honestly? They are already in serious trouble. The rotation is not providing quality or innings as a unit, and that's killing a BP that relies on a guy who's been horribly overworked the last three years, and a 40-year-old that's effective, but needs his IP carefully managed.

 

They'uh runinin' my summuh!

[SoxnCycles]

Honestly? They are already in serious trouble. The rotation is not providing quality or innings as a unit, and that's killing a BP that relies on a guy who's been horribly overworked the last three years, and a 40-year-old that's effective, but needs his IP carefully managed.

 

I agree.

I had no problem giving Price some slack in April. The offense was kicking ass and the pitching staff, as a whole, was allowed to skate some.

The offense has fallen off a lot since then. No one expected them to hit like they did the first two months, but they're downright mediocre right now.

 

It's time for the good pitchers on the staff to pick it up a little.

That's goes double for the guy that felt he deserved to be paid like the best pitcher in baseball.

I'm done waiting for the guy to "adjust".

I wasn't crazy about the contract in the first place and expected it to be a drag on the team, the last 2 or 3 years.

I'm disappointed that the Sox can't count on him to stop a team slide when they need it most, in his first year.