A Realistic View at 2016

[Emp9]

I'd certainly try to lure Papi back for one more. Even if he declines by 33%, he'd still be going out on top.

 

One writer suggested convincing Papi to return for one more season @$25M. Does he deserve it? In my mind yes. Would that put a serious dent on the budget? I think that would also be a yes.

[SoxnCycles]

I'd certainly try to lure Papi back for one more. Even if he declines by 33%, he'd still be going out on top.

 

If the info about Ortiz's feet and ankles are true, I think the dropoff would be much worse than 33%, if they get worse.

I'm going to miss that swing, but he's doing the right thing, IMO.

[mvp 78]

I hope he retires without regrets after winning a 4th ring.

[Kimmi]

I disagree, I say let Ortiz retire on top. Regression is not always linear....players like Papi aren't always going to give you exactly 1-.5 less WAR per year, rather he's just going to fall off a cliff one year. It could have been this year, maybe it would be next, or maybe it would be in 3 years but at 40 years old it would be coming sooner rather than later.

 

I hate seeing players get pushed out of the game because they stink, and I think the offense will survive without him. Invest in pitching and let Ortiz ride into the sunset on top of his game. He deserves that.

 

100% agree with this post. Well said.

[moonslav59]

I wouldn't be saddened to see Papi struggle next year. The risk-reward is too tantalizing to not at least try.

 

Ultimately, it's up to him. I'd be fine with him leaving right after maybe his best season ever, but I'd always be thinking, what if...

 

Remember all the clowns trying to claim Papi faked his age and is actually older than we think?

[moonslav59]

His feet/ankles are a BIG problem. He has said that he experiences a good amount of pain and has already had to take days off because of it. He will be 41 and the grind has gotten to be too much. I imagine hes just emptying the tank this year.

Id love for him to come back for one more..who wouldnt in Boston?

I just think his body is having a hard time keeping up these days...

 

He'd be worth $15M just to play 81 games (every other day). Actually, if he played every other day, he'd end up with 90-95 games.

 

The guys a DH. I mean, how hard is that for a job- even at 42.

[southpaw777]

He'd be worth $15M just to play 81 games (every other day). Actually, if he played every other day, he'd end up with 90-95 games.

 

The guys a DH. I mean, how hard is that for a job- even at 42.

 

worth it to us, not to him. Hes plenty rich and I doubt hes money motivated anymore. Just seeing him,last night tells me hes going to be having a few extra days off this year. Papi is playing with a decent amount of pain this year. To selfishly want him back is normal for the fans, and understandably. But as a man, I dont want to see the Boston hero limp around next year in more pain than hes already in just to make us happy...hes given me, and every Sox fan plenty of great moments, and im sure a few more this year before he walks away.

Papi has had a HOF career. i Dont think you will even get close to his production hes having this year, next year. Sox fans need to just let this guy ride into the sunset at the end of the year and move on.

Yes hes a DH..but really? you cant be serious,,,obviously you have no idea about how hard a MLB season grind is. Physically and mentally... Whether your just A DH or not...hes also got a family and a life outside baseball that deserves his attention.

David will still be around the organization and in the community helping out like all the other former Sox players and legends. Hes earned this retirement after the season.

Edited June 4, 2016 by southpaw777

[Spudboy]

worth it to us, not to him. Hes plenty rich and I doubt hes money motivated anymore. Just seeing him,last night tells me hes going to be having a few extra days off this year. Papi is playing with a decent amount of pain this year. To selfishly want him back is normal for the fans, and understandably. But as a man, I dont want to see the Boston hero limp around next year in more pain than hes already in just to make us happy...hes given me, and every Sox fan plenty of great moments, and im sure a few more this year before he walks away.

Papi has had a HOF career. i Dont think you will even get close to his production hes having this year, next year. Sox fans need to just let this guy ride into the sunset at the end of the year and move on.

Yes hes a DH..but really? you cant be serious,,,obviously you have no idea about how hard a MLB season grind is. Physically and mentally... Whether your just A DH or not...hes also got a family and a life outside baseball that deserves his attention.

David will still be around the organization and in the community helping out like all the other former Sox players and legends. Hes earned this retirement after the season.

 

Well said.

 

Ortiz already has 25 doubles this year. If you watch you can see that he really hoofs it when he needs to. Can you imagine how sore his feet / etc. must be after every game? I have heard mention of all that he must go through to prepare for each game. The cumulative affect of all he does must make him uncomfortable ( to say the least ) most of his waking life. Chronic pain is no f***ing joke.

[moonslav59]

worth it to us, not to him. Hes plenty rich and I doubt hes money motivated anymore. Just seeing him,last night tells me hes going to be having a few extra days off this year. Papi is playing with a decent amount of pain this year. To selfishly want him back is normal for the fans, and understandably. But as a man, I dont want to see the Boston hero limp around next year in more pain than hes already in just to make us happy...hes given me, and every Sox fan plenty of great moments, and im sure a few more this year before he walks away.

Papi has had a HOF career. i Dont think you will even get close to his production hes having this year, next year. Sox fans need to just let this guy ride into the sunset at the end of the year and move on.

Yes hes a DH..but really? you cant be serious,,,obviously you have no idea about how hard a MLB season grind is. Physically and mentally... Whether your just A DH or not...hes also got a family and a life outside baseball that deserves his attention.

David will still be around the organization and in the community helping out like all the other former Sox players and legends. Hes earned this retirement after the season.

 

Yes, a DH. They sit on a bench all day and get up 4-5 times to walk to the plate, swing a piece of wood and, for Papi, jog to 1B every now and then. Yes, he takes a lot of batting practice, but it's not like even that is a "grind".

 

I played baseball for over 20 years. I played 2B, CF and pitched. Then, I switched to softball. It was never close to a "grind".

 

Obviously you don't know the meaning of the word "grind".

 

Look, I'm fine with Papi deciding to retire. I never once even implied otherwise. My point was that the Sox should bend over backwards to try and make him feel welcome to return, even at a diminished part-time role, if needed. Of course, Papi might decide playing every other day is not desirable, and say no, but what's the harm in asking? In trying?

[mvp 78]

Guess you travelled 9 months out of the year, played 150+ games at a high level and kept in shape 24/7?

 

Bet that softball schedule was a real grind!

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, a DH. They sit on a bench all day and get up 4-5 times to walk to the plate, swing a piece of wood and, for Papi, jog to 1B every now and then. Yes, he takes a lot of batting practice, but it's not like even that is a "grind".

 

I played baseball for over 20 years. I played 2B, CF and pitched. Then, I switched to softball. It was never close to a "grind".

 

Obviously you don't know the meaning of the word "grind".

 

Look, I'm fine with Papi deciding to retire. I never once even implied otherwise. My point was that the Sox should bend over backwards to try and make him feel welcome to return, even at a diminished part-time role, if needed. Of course, Papi might decide playing every other day is not desirable, and say no, but what's the harm in asking? In trying?

 

It's a grind if you have ongoing health issues with your feet and you are periodically fouling baseballs off them.

[User Name]

Did you spend essentially six months of your life being held hostage by an MLB team's schedule? And if you have chronic pain anywhere, life in general is a grind, let alone playing baseball. Just because you played baseball as a pastime doesn't mean you understand what it's like doing it for a living, and it certainly does not invalidate others' opinions on the subject.

[Kimmi]

Yes, a DH. They sit on a bench all day and get up 4-5 times to walk to the plate, swing a piece of wood and, for Papi, jog to 1B every now and then. Yes, he takes a lot of batting practice, but it's not like even that is a "grind".

 

I played baseball for over 20 years. I played 2B, CF and pitched. Then, I switched to softball. It was never close to a "grind".

 

Obviously you don't know the meaning of the word "grind".

 

Look, I'm fine with Papi deciding to retire. I never once even implied otherwise. My point was that the Sox should bend over backwards to try and make him feel welcome to return, even at a diminished part-time role, if needed. Of course, Papi might decide playing every other day is not desirable, and say no, but what's the harm in asking? In trying?

 

You can't seriously be comparing the "grind" of your softball schedule to the grind of an MLB schedule.

 

I would venture to say that it is you that doesn't understand the meaning of the word "grind".

[moonslav59]

One writer suggested convincing Papi to return for one more season @$25M. Does he deserve it? In my mind yes. Would that put a serious dent on the budget? I think that would also be a yes.

 

Replacing him in kind will be costly as well.

 

I know Moncada and Benintendi might be very cheap options by next year, but why pressure them to fill Big Papi's shoes. One (or both) can play LF (Benintendi) after we trade Swihart. One can split time at DH, 1B and 3B (Moncada).

 

The timing works out perfectly, if Papi retires after 2017.

 

Ultimately, it's his call. I hear the talk of foot pain, so I totally understand the notion of him choosing to go out on top of his game, but the guy is currently 100 points above his career high OPS, so maybe he's thinking he loves the game too much to retire with so much production still left in his tank. It's clear he loves playing, so maybe the love will out weigh the pain, and he'll change his mind. Maybe not.

 

Why not roll out a red carpet and make Papi feel like he's never been more appreciated than now. Come back, if you want. We'll reward you with $20+M and days off whenever you want. Free massages and foot treatments. Anything. We love you Papi and we don't want to end the ride just yet.

[moonslav59]

You can't seriously be comparing the "grind" of your softball schedule to the grind of an MLB schedule.

 

I would venture to say that it is you that doesn't understand the meaning of the word "grind".

 

I think your missing my point. Of course 162 games of MLB is more than any rec league baseball schedule, but the guy is a DH. Compared to any other sport, a DH is cush. I'm not saying what a DH does can't inflame foot issues, and I totally would understand if his foot pain and prognosis overrides his will to keep playing the game he so loves and excels at.

 

I'm sorry, but being a DH for 324 games a year is less of a grind than 324 long walks in a park with a few small hills.

 

I have said it's up to him.

 

I don't get why so many here seem to feel rolling out the red carpet for him to return- IF HE WANTS- is such a bad idea.

[moonslav59]

Did you spend essentially six months of your life being held hostage by an MLB team's schedule? And if you have chronic pain anywhere, life in general is a grind, let alone playing baseball. Just because you played baseball as a pastime doesn't mean you understand what it's like doing it for a living, and it certainly does not invalidate others' opinions on the subject.

 

I was just using his words back at him. It was he who invalidated my opinion.

 

Being a DH is a cakewalk. I've played enough baseball to know that's a valid opinion.

 

Yes, the long road trips and practices and workout sessions are time consuming, but Papi is never forced to be on his feet longer than working as a check-out clerk at Walmart. Sorry, I'm not buying the "grind" argument.

 

I'm not calling anyone a clown for thinking it's way more difficult and for thinking it's a hard and physical demanding job, but I strongly disagree with anyone who thinks such.

 

It's more mentally challenging to be a DH than Physical. Papi seems to have mastered that aspect of the game.

[Bellhorn04]

I think your missing my point. Of course 162 games of MLB is more than any rec league baseball schedule, but the guy is a DH. Compared to any other sport, a DH is cush. I'm not saying what a DH does can't inflame foot issues, and I totally would understand if his foot pain and prognosis overrides his will to keep playing the game he so loves and excels at.

 

I'm sorry, but being a DH for 324 games a year is less of a grind than 324 long walks in a park with a few small hills.

 

You might as well say being an outfielder isn't a grind either. They just run around a little and make catches and throws.

[moonslav59]

It's a grind if you have ongoing health issues with your feet and you are periodically fouling baseballs off them.

 

Then walking to the kitchen and dropping a large can of Cream of Mushroom soup on your foot is going to be rough for Papi once he retires.

 

LOL

 

[User Name]

I'm speaking from a physical perspective too. I compete in powerlifting meets, but I have a bursa issue in both my elbows. Now I don't do it for a living, so when it hurts not only can I just stop lifting, I can take whatever supplement I can to ease the pain. Chronic issues hurt even if you're not actively engaging the damaged area. Sometimes my left elbow won't let me sleep even if I haven't been lifting.

 

Imagine that being a job, where you have a responsibility to a fanbase as furious as this one to produce, while being away from your family and dealing with the hectic schedule of a MLB'er.

 

I'd take him back with open arms ( no one would not) but minimizing the guy's plight seems unfair to me.

[moonslav59]

Guess you travelled 9 months out of the year, played 150+ games at a high level and kept in shape 24/7?

 

Bet that softball schedule was a real grind!

 

I was talking more about the 20 years of playing baseball, but yeah, 45 games playing 2B, CF or P is harder than 324 playing DH.

 

No, I never had to go on long road trips and walk to the airport gate and hotel room before and after each game. That must be very tiring.

 

Yeah, you guys are right, being a DH is tough these days.

[User Name]

Then walking to the kitchen and dropping a large can of Cream of Mushroom soup on your foot is going to be rough for Papi once he retires.

 

LOL

 

 

He has people to do that for him.

[moonslav59]

I'm speaking from a physical perspective too. I compete in powerlifting meets, but I have a bursa issue in both my elbows. Now I don't do it for a living, so when it hurts not only can I just stop lifting, I can take whatever supplement I can to ease the pain. Chronic issues hurt even if you're not actively engaging the damaged area. Sometimes my left elbow won't let me sleep even if I haven't been lifting.

 

Imagine that being a job, where you have a responsibility to a fanbase as furious as this one to produce, while being away from your family and dealing with the hectic schedule of a MLB'er.

 

I'd take him back with open arms ( no one would not) but minimizing the guy's plight seems unfair to me.

 

Where have I ever said that if Papi is in that much pain, he still shouldn't retire?

 

You guys are constructing arguments against a position I do not even hold.

 

All I'm saying is that we should roll out a hundred mile red carpet for this legend and let him decide.

 

It's shocking to me, so many here think that's a bad position to have.

[Bellhorn04]

So what's so hard about being in the outfield running, catching and throwing? It's a game little boys can play, after all.

[User Name]

Where have I ever said that if Papi is in that much pain, he still shouldn't retire?

 

You guys are constructing arguments against a position I do not even hold.

 

All I'm saying is that we should roll out a hundred mile red carpet for this legend and let him decide.

 

It's shocking to me, so many here think that's a bad position to have.

 

The irony is palpable. You're the one saying people wouldn't welcome him back, which literally no one has said, what has been said (and is what I said above) that you're minimizing how hard being a baseball player (DH or otherwise) really is.

[moonslav59]

He has people to do that for him.

 

All the more reason to think he may have another year in him. He can get a limo ride right to the plane door, right to the hotel door, and right to the stadium gate. He takes some batting practice, takes a whirlpool, gets a massage, sits on the bench for 3 hours a day surrounding 4-5 times he has to walk to the plate and swing a pice of wood a few times. Every now and then he may have to choose to hustle and run fast for 90 or 180 feet.

 

I get that this may be extremely painful for him and reason enough to retire, but where's the harm is giving him a very strong incentive to return for another year- even if at part time.

[mvp 78]

So what's so hard about being in the outfield running, catching and throwing? It's a game little boys can play, after all.

 

Hey, little girls can play too!

[Bellhorn04]

All the more reason to think he may have another year in him. He can get a limo ride right to the plane door, right to the hotel door, and right to the stadium gate. He takes some batting practice, takes a whirlpool, gets a massage, sits on the bench for 3 hours a day surrounding 4-5 times he has to walk to the plate and swing a pice of wood a few times. Every now and then he may have to choose to hustle and run fast for 90 or 180 feet.

 

He may not always hustle to first, but when he's on base he hustles as much as anyone.

[Emp9]

Replacing him in kind will be costly as well.

 

I know Moncada and Benintendi might be very cheap options by next year, but why pressure them to fill Big Papi's shoes. One (or both) can play LF (Benintendi) after we trade Swihart. One can split time at DH, 1B and 3B (Moncada).

 

The timing works out perfectly, if Papi retires after 2017.

 

Ultimately, it's his call. I hear the talk of foot pain, so I totally understand the notion of him choosing to go out on top of his game, but the guy is currently 100 points above his career high OPS, so maybe he's thinking he loves the game too much to retire with so much production still left in his tank. It's clear he loves playing, so maybe the love will out weigh the pain, and he'll change his mind. Maybe not.

 

Why not roll out a red carpet and make Papi feel like he's never been more appreciated than now. Come back, if you want. We'll reward you with $20+M and days off whenever you want. Free massages and foot treatments. Anything. We love you Papi and we don't want to end the ride just yet.

 

Well, say it took $25M... Its for 1 yr not 10 yrs or 7 yrs. Its hard to tell how bad his feet are, only he knows for sure. I think he also said preparing for the season keeps getting more difficult, although he's notorious for his lack of urgency in many of his off-seasons/Spring trainings and starts the season off slow. Obviously this season was not a slow start for him, but he didn't have a great spring and took a lot of time off as i remember.

 

I respect his decision to retire. I'd also respect the Red Sox organization to try like hell to get one more year out of him. I doubt the second he retires he sits down in a wheelchair (except maybe as a gag?). I just hope we're as prepared as possible as a team when he does indeed decide to walk away.

[Bellhorn04]

Hey, little girls can play too!

 

Sorry, should have said little kids. Dumb.

[moonslav59]

The irony is palpable. You're the one saying people wouldn't welcome him back, which literally no one has said, what has been said (and is what I said above) that you're minimizing how hard being a baseball player (DH or otherwise) really is.

 

I'm responding to those who are saying...

 

...he's doing the right thing, IMO

 

...I hope he retires.

 

...I say let Ortiz retire on top. Regression is not always linear....players like Papi aren't always going to give you exactly 1-.5 less WAR per year, rather he's just going to fall off a cliff one year. It could have been this year, maybe it would be next, or maybe it would be in 3 years but at 40 years old it would be coming sooner rather than later.

 

I hate seeing players get pushed out of the game because they stink, and I think the offense will survive without him. Invest in pitching and let Ortiz ride into the sunset on top of his game. He deserves that.

 

...i Dont think you will even get close to his production hes having this year, next year. Sox fans need to just let this guy ride into the sunset at the end of the year and move on.

 

Nobody is saying we should try to force him not to retire, but it seems like several posters here don't even want us to try to entice him to come back. It's like the want him to retire rather than maybe give us an .850 OPS over 100 games next year.

 

I'd take him back with open arms ( no one would not) but minimizing the guy's plight seems unfair to me.

 

That's a fair argument, and like I said, if his pain is too great (greater than I imagine it is), then of course I have no issues with him going off into the sunset without us even trying to bring him back. I'm thinking the Sox have a good idea what he's going through, pain-wise, and will act accordingly. My position is that I feel Papi still has a lot in his tank, and we should offer- not force- a cushy deal for him to return.

 

If he says no, then so be it.

 

If being a DH is too much for his feet to withstand, I'm more than fine with him retiring, but nobody is ever going to convince me that being a DH is a "grind".