Spring training

[Kimmi]

The problem with giving Sandoval " a chance" is that by doing so you are denying a chance to ballplayers who demonstrated a positive attitude by coming into camp in shape. In my view Sandoval gave the proverbial finger to every pitcher on the team by reporting to camp in a condition that he was unable to pickup slow rollers because of his gut.

 

If it were up to me he'd be put on waivers and spend the year in Pawtucket until he was in the physical condition I wanted him to be in.

 

Pablo have the finger to every player on the team the same way that Lackey gave the finger to all of his teammates by his show of frustration on the mound when a play was not made? Or the way he gave the finger to his manager when he didn't want to be taken out of the game?

 

Lackey took all kinds of flak for those things. It turns out that he's just a competitive player who, by all accounts from his fellow players, is a great teammate.

[Elktonnick]

Wanting to give him a chance is not enabling anything. I just think people deserve a chance to make amends. If he doesn't improve, I'll be leading the charge to have Shaw start in his place.

 

As far as the evidence that you see with your eyes, you eyes will see what you want to see.

Yes a fat out of shape ballplayer who is 20 lbs heavier than last year when he was out of shape and the worst defensive 3rd baseman in the game who is slow lethargic and too big to pick up a slow roller.

[Kimmi]

We have exactly zero players right now that are definitely ready to take over as the starting third baseman of a contending team. Shaw is not anyone's first choice as a starting third sacker. The bench role he's playing now is acutally more or less ideal for him unless he keeps hitting over his head, which I honestly don't think he will. Beyond him we have a bunch of nobodies and maybes.

 

There's good reason to see what Panda can give us before we panic and throw our flock of maybes into the lineup every day.

 

Two well stated posts.

 

Thank you for being a voice of reason.

[Elktonnick]

We have exactly zero players right now that are definitely ready to take over as the starting third baseman of a contending team. Shaw is not anyone's first choice as a starting third sacker. The bench role he's playing now is acutally more or less ideal for him unless he keeps hitting over his head, which I honestly don't think he will. Beyond him we have a bunch of nobodies and maybes.

 

There's good reason to see what Panda can give us before we panic and throw our flock of maybes into the lineup every day.

 

Sandoval was the worst defensive 3rd baseman in the game last year. So far this spring he looks worse at third than he did last year. Shaw or Holt can play a better third then Sandoval who is an embarrassment at third.

[Elktonnick]

Two well stated posts.

 

Thank you for being a voice of reason.

 

If you had attended any of the games and watched Sandoval embarrass himself at third you'd hardly call him the voice of reason.

[Kimmi]

Yes a fat out of shape ballplayer who is 20 lbs heavier than last year when he was out of shape and the worst defensive 3rd baseman in the game who is slow lethargic and too big to pick up a slow roller.

 

You have no way of knowing that he is 20 pounds heavier than last year. You don't like him because he's fat, and you are making a lot of assumptions about his character based on your dislike of him.

[Kimmi]

Sandoval was the worst defensive 3rd baseman in the game last year. So far this spring he looks worse at third than he did last year. Shaw or Holt can play a better third then Sandoval who is an embarrassment at third.

 

I understand all of that. I understand that he has to play much better. I'm willing to give him that chance.

[Kimmi]

If you had attended any of the games and watched Sandoval embarrass himself at third you'd hardly call him the voice of reason.

 

No one is saying that Pablo has turned into a Gold Glover.

 

It is in the team's best interest to give Pablo a fair shot and hope that he can play at the level that he did in SF.

[Bellhorn04]

Pablo needs to string together some good defensive games. That's the position he's put himself in.

[Elktonnick]

It is all over the ball park that he came in 20 lbs over last year. As I said it was common knowledge among the crew working the games, guys who have been there for ten years working every game. Plus I was no more than ten yards from the man and he was clearly heavier than last year. He was also noticeably slower and had trouble recovering his balance to make a decent throw to first.

 

It is you who are making the assumptions since I presume you aren't in Ft Myers nor have you seen any games in person.

[Elktonnick]

No one is saying that Pablo has turned into a Gold Glover.

 

It is in the team's best interest to give Pablo a fair shot and hope that he can play at the level that he did in SF.

 

He is getting a fair shot and looking bad.

[Spudboy]

My understanding is that the Sox are "revamping" Pablo's defense to help combat the declining range. Hence, the "work in progress" comment.

 

I agree that there's a sense that the Sox are at least preparing for the possibility of Pablo not showing any improvement. Farrell's comments today about Shaw possibly getting regular at bats was kind of telling.

 

That said, I still believe that most people are not giving Pablo a fair chance to bounce back this season.

 

Lol. Now that is a funny choice of words.

[Spudboy]

Thank you.

 

Someone is paying attention.

 

Jung was not around for your class on bating order, I believe.

 

Which was pretty good. Sure routed the old pre-conceptions of where certain types should bat.

 

Go back and read it all Jung.

[a700hitter]

Wanting to give him a chance is not enabling anything. I just think people deserve a chance to make amends. If he doesn't improve, I'll be leading the charge to have Shaw start in his place.

 

As far as the evidence that you see with your eyes, you eyes will see what you want to see.

I wanted to see a thinner more athletic Pablo when I got to Fort Myers, but what I saw was a guy that was as heavy as he was at the end of last year, maybe bigger, who can't bend over, can't charge balls and throw on the run, and who waddles like a fat duck. I didn't want to see any of that, but that is the reality.

[a700hitter]

 

That said, I still believe that most people are not giving Pablo a fair chance to bounce back this season.

I am confident that Pablo will bounce this season.

[mvp 78]

Jung was not around for your class on bating order, I believe.

 

Which was pretty good. Sure routed the old pre-conceptions of where certain types should bat.

 

Go back and read it all Jung.

 

All the evidence in the world couldn't cool jung's takes.

[Elktonnick]

I wanted to see a thinner more athletic Pablo when I got to Fort Myers, but what I saw was a guy that was as heavy as he was at the end of last year, maybe bigger, who can't bend over, can't charge balls and throw on the run, and who waddles like a fat duck. I didn't want to see any of that, but that is the reality.

 

He DOES WADDLE!

[Dojji]

There have been fat baseball players before.

[cp176]

There have been fat baseball players before.

 

True Dojji but if he is expected to be a little athletic on the field, his current fitness level does leave a bit to be desired.

[cp176]

He DOES WADDLE!

 

 

John Farrell is fighting for his job. His recent comments with respect to the third base job being up in the air represent quite a change in attitude with respect to the way he has always viewed veteran players. This spring training does have some significance. It looks like maybe the Red Sox in general feel a small sense of urgency. It really has nothing to do whether or not people like or do not like Sandoval. It has everything to do with who gives them the best chance to win. That is a good thing. It isn't about what have you done for me lately. If Sandoval's fitness level contributes to him not being the best man for the job, he has no one to blame but himself. He will be just another well paid big boy. I don't think that he gets months to prove himself. Maybe Farrell got the memo - put the best players on the field or watch the games from home.

[Dojji]

True Dojji but if he is expected to be a little athletic on the field, his current fitness level does leave a bit to be desired.

 

Absolutely, but the problem is about his athleticism, not "he's fat lol." The problem is that as he's gotten older it's harder to be both fat and athletic.

[a700hitter]

John Farrell is fighting for his job. His recent comments with respect to the third base job being up in the air represent quite a change in attitude with respect to the way he has always viewed veteran players. This spring training does have some significance. It looks like maybe the Red Sox in general feel a small sense of urgency. It really has nothing to do whether or not people like or do not like Sandoval. It has everything to do with who gives them the best chance to win. That is a good thing. It isn't about what have you done for me lately. If Sandoval's fitness level contributes to him not being the best man for the job, he has no one to blame but himself. He will be just another well paid big boy. I don't think that he gets months to prove himself. Maybe Farrell got the memo - put the best players on the field or watch the games from home.

The statement coming from Farrell during Spring Training was startling and it definitely reveals a deep concern whether the team is better off with Sandoval. IMO, it is not. He came to camp without doing the appropriate preparation to play at a major league level. He looks like a hot pile of garbage in the field. His offense has been declining steadily. I think they need to cut their losses with him. I just don't see his upside being worth holding down Shaw and Travis. If Sandoval works his tail off and turns the clock back a couple of years, he was just not a great player. He was above average at best -- and that is his upside. I don't see the value waiting hand hoping for his upside. Better players are waiting in the wings. DD needs to move on from him. I doubt that Farrell's comments will have the desired effect of lighting a fire under Pablo.

[Elktonnick]

The statement coming from Farrell during Spring Training was startling and it definitely reveals a deep concern whether the team is better off with Sandoval. IMO, it is not. He came to camp without doing the appropriate preparation to play at a major league level. He looks like a hot pile of garbage in the field. His offense has been declining steadily. I think they need to cut their losses with him. I just don't see his upside being worth holding down Shaw and Travis. If Sandoval works his tail off and turns the clock back a couple of years, he was just not a great player. He was above average at best -- and that is his upside. I don't see the value waiting hand hoping for his upside. Better players are waiting in the wings. DD needs to move on from him. I doubt that Farrell's comments will have the desired effect of lighting a fire under Pablo.

 

You and I have had the benefit of seeing him in person. I don't know if the others have had the same view. To put it bluntly I was surprised how much he has slipped from the ballplayer I saw last year. His is bigger, slower and clearly less agile. Last year he was the worst defensive 3rd baseman in baseball. His current physical condition doesn't help him get any better.

As for Farrell, didn't he say a couple of weeks before everyone reported that Sandoval had lost weight? We all know that wasn't true. So as far Farrell is concerned I don't trust anything he says especially that crap about Sandoval working hard. The proof will be what happens on the field not what comes out of Farrell's mouth.

[Kimmi]

It is all over the ball park that he came in 20 lbs over last year. As I said it was common knowledge among the crew working the games, guys who have been there for ten years working every game. Plus I was no more than ten yards from the man and he was clearly heavier than last year. He was also noticeably slower and had trouble recovering his balance to make a decent throw to first.

 

It is you who are making the assumptions since I presume you aren't in Ft Myers nor have you seen any games in person.

 

I am not making any assumptions. I have no idea what he weighs, or whether he is heavier or lighter than when he left last season.

 

It's interesting that it's all over the ball park that Pablo is 20 pounds heavier than last year, but somehow this news has not made its way into the media. Could it simply be more speculation?

 

I agree that Pablo's defense has not been good.

 

All I am saying, is give him a chance.

[Kimmi]

He is getting a fair shot and looking bad.

 

No, he is not getting a fair shot. He has been scrutinized for every little thing he has done, and he has yet to play in a regular season game.

[Kimmi]

Jung was not around for your class on bating order, I believe.

 

Which was pretty good. Sure routed the old pre-conceptions of where certain types should bat.

 

Go back and read it all Jung.

 

Thank you.

 

This post makes me happy.

[a700hitter]

I am not making any assumptions. I have no idea what he weighs, or whether he is heavier or lighter than when he left last season.

 

It's interesting that it's all over the ball park that Pablo is 20 pounds heavier than last year, but somehow this news has not made its way into the media. Could it simply be more speculation?

 

I agree that Pablo's defense has not been good.

 

All I am saying, is give him a chance.

Apparently, the media cannot even write about him making errors or he gets upset. Sportswriters have to live with these guys for the next 6 months. I can understand their reluctance to write too much about his weight, although there is plenty out there about his weight. Fans of other teams know about the issue. I assume they are getting the information about the media. Also, they don't need to write about something that we can all clearly see.

[Dojji]

That, a700, is 100% speculation and you know it.

[a700hitter]

No, he is not getting a fair shot. He has been scrutinized for every little thing he has done, and he has yet to play in a regular season game.

It is up to the FO, the manager and the coaching staff to give him a fair shot. If he proves himself to them, he will play. If he produces, the fans will be on his side. Sports is very fair like that.

[Kimmi]

I wanted to see a thinner more athletic Pablo when I got to Fort Myers, but what I saw was a guy that was as heavy as he was at the end of last year, maybe bigger, who can't bend over, can't charge balls and throw on the run, and who waddles like a fat duck. I didn't want to see any of that, but that is the reality.

 

I wanted to see Pablo in better condition than he is too.

 

The difference is, I am being open-minded about it. I want to see him play in regular season games before I decide if he deserves the starting position. If he stinks, he gets benched, no problem.

 

Most people immediately assumed the worst about Pablo as a player and as a person, and wrote him off, based on his appearance. The criticism and the fat jokes have been brutal and down right mean.