Spring training

[Dojji]

We're trying to climb out of the basement. you don't accomplish that in a single offseason.

[Bellhorn04]

We're trying to climb out of the basement. you don't accomplish that in a single offseason.

 

Hey, this franchise has shown in recent years it can go from the basement to the penthouse and back in a flash.

[Dojji]

yes we got super lucky in 2013 but there was plenty of evidence that 2013 was not sustainable. We're trying for sustainable success here

[Spudboy]

We're trying to climb out of the basement. you don't accomplish that in a single offseason.

 

I do not agree. I'm not saying that the Sox should be in the hunt for a WS birth this year. But I do believe with prudent roster construction this team should be able to clime to 3rd or 2nd place.

[User Name]

They just need a starter, a healthy E-Rod, and a quick resolution at 3B really. Everything else should work itself out.

[mvp 78]

They just need a starter, a healthy E-Rod, and a quick resolution at 3B really. Everything else should work itself out.

 

Need a solid midrotation guy for sure.

[Dojji]

Could probably use a corner outfielder too

[jung]

So I had not seen Kelly throw a single pitch this spring before today...have no idea what he was throwing before today. But today it looked just like he finished last year...not overdependent of 2 seam or 4 seam. Putting hitters away with Curve or Change mostly instead of just hammering away with 2 or 4 seam. He looked good. Probably second to the Price start of a few days ago. The Cards ran into some stupid outs...but did not change the way Kelly threw or how good he looked.

 

Mookie made the OF throw of his OF career today from right....had another HR. Actually the wind was blowing out real hard just before a major storm and there were three wind blown HR's....one from Cards, two from us. I am still convinced that he should be deeper in the order and not leading off. His bat is just too valuable as an RBI source unless the middle of the order is much better this year than last and they are never going to use his speed to optimal effect from the top of the order IMO. That is just not the team this is in spite of Farrell and his wacky running stuff.

[Dojji]

the difference in construction between various lineups is so minescule as to be effectively a complete nonissue. It's the difference of a bare handful of runs a year.

[User Name]

Could probably use a corner outfielder too

 

They have options. They have Young and Holt as insurance, and they could form a very viable platoon.

[yankthis]

We're trying to climb out of the basement. you don't accomplish that in a single offseason.

 

This is not a crappy team that is trying to rebuild from the ground up. A few very minor tweaks and a few different small strokes of luck throughout the season can make the difference between finishing in first place or last.

[jung]

the difference in construction between various lineups is so minescule as to be effectively a complete nonissue. It's the difference of a bare handful of runs a year.

 

That depends on who you move where. If we are stuck unable to keep up scoring runs in the AL East as we were last year then sticking a guy that had as many RBI as Mookie had hitting from the 1 hole in a spot where he gets much more opportunity could have a much larger impact than minuscule. Remember a goodly number of Mookies RBI came during JBJ's run late in the year when those two players were just about in the middle of every rally the Sox had. If JBJ is not getting on as he was Mookie does not get those RBI. I think JBJ has a great chance to finally meet the expectations we have set for him all these years...but not more than that.

 

We are not the Jays offense and all the Yankees have to do to compete is have decent, not great but pitching and keep their LH power upright for most of a season. That is one of the things that irritates me about Yankee fans beating their breasts about not finishing last. In that shoe box as long as they can keep their LH power upright not finishing last is nothing to write home about. They will be competitive by virtue of that dumb park.

 

Most of our pitching improvement is in the pen and this sort of pen only becomes a game winning tool if you hand it leads. At this point even if Kelly is real, starting pitching is still an issue here. So far nobody else is real other than Price and Kelly has not done anything over a full season yet.

 

Plus the potential for minor improvement with lineup changes cuts both ways. What is the advantage to keeping Mookie at the top for this team? This is the, "we don't run because we are the power hitting team that does not want to run out of innings team". So what good does Mookie really do up there? We run ala' Farrell and Butters wacky running moves which generally blow up in their faces. So we do run ourselves into outs but not because we run als' the traditional running team. We don't run ala' a KC nor should we IMO. We run ala' Butter and Farrell and we all know what that looks like.

[User Name]

The advantage is having your top OBP guys (Betts, Pedroia, Bogaerts) hitting in front of your best power guys (Ortiz, a hopefully healthy Hanley). In the end, what Dojji says is correct, and what you're saying is anecdotal dribble.

[mvp 78]

Sox scored the 4th most runs in MLB. The trouble was their pitching...

[Kimmi]

Unfortunately Pablo has given the fans every reason to doubt him. He's made 4 errors in what looks like the equivalent of about 6 games. John Farrell will only say Pablo's defense is a 'work in progress'. What kind of comment is that to make about a veteran third baseman?

 

With all the reps Shaw has been getting at third it's hard to escape the sense that the Sox are just about ready to pack it in with Pablo.

 

My understanding is that the Sox are "revamping" Pablo's defense to help combat the declining range. Hence, the "work in progress" comment.

 

I agree that there's a sense that the Sox are at least preparing for the possibility of Pablo not showing any improvement. Farrell's comments today about Shaw possibly getting regular at bats was kind of telling.

 

That said, I still believe that most people are not giving Pablo a fair chance to bounce back this season.

[Kimmi]

Why should anyone give him a chance when he hasn't given himself one? Farrell said he was losing weight when in fact he gained 20lbs. What does that say about his respect for himself, his team mates or the fans. Okay he has an eating problem then admit it and do something about it. Step up and be responsible. He hasn't and probably won't. So the fans, the media, his team mates and ownership have every right to get on his case until he does or is shipped out of town.

 

How do you know he hasn't given himself a chance? You don't. The fans and the media are making assumptions about his character and his attitude based on nothing but speculation and the fact that he's fat. It's the same thing that people did with Hanley, who has so far proved his naysayers wrong. And it's the same thing that people, yourself included, did with Lackey when he pitched poorly, and he proved his naysayers wrong.

 

Pablo may or may not prove his naysayers wrong. He deserves the chance to do so before being crucified though.

[Kimmi]

For me, the cutoff point is Memorial Day. Sink or Swim.

 

That sounds reasonable.

 

Personally, I would give him until ASB, but that also depends on how dire his and the team's situation is after a couple of months.

[Kimmi]

the difference in construction between various lineups is so minescule as to be effectively a complete nonissue. It's the difference of a bare handful of runs a year.

 

Thank you.

 

Someone is paying attention.

[Kimmi]

That depends on who you move where.

 

If you move a pitcher into the clean up spot, you are talking about a difference of 15 runs (1-2 wins) over the entire season. If you switch the #6 and #8 hitters, you are talking about 2 runs over the entire season.

 

The difference is so small that it is more important to:

 

1) Put batters in a line up position where they feel comfortable hitting, and

 

2) Separate your lefties to avoid the opposing team being able to use a LOOGY for two batters in a row.

[Kimmi]

Kelly looked good today. He appears to have stepped it up.

 

If he can continue to pitch like he did today and at the end of last season, the rotation behind Price should be okay.

[mvp 78]

That sounds reasonable.

 

Personally, I would give him until ASB, but that also depends on how dire his and the team's situation is after a couple of months.

 

If he stinks for half the season, you've just dug yourself into a giant hole. They can't wait that long after back to back last place finishes.

[Elktonnick]

How do you know he hasn't given himself a chance? You don't. The fans and the media are making assumptions about his character and his attitude based on nothing but speculation and the fact that he's fat. It's the same thing that people did with Hanley, who has so far proved his naysayers wrong. And it's the same thing that people, yourself included, did with Lackey when he pitched poorly, and he proved his naysayers wrong.

 

Pablo may or may not prove his naysayers wrong. He deserves the chance to do so before being crucified though.

 

I am not making assumptions about anything but I am evaluating the evidence that I see with my own eyes. By the fact he came in 20 lbs heavier and by published reports of his behavior and his own statements. Your attitude is typical of an "enabler" who makes excuses for people.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Elktonnick

[jacksonianmarch]

I am starting to hear on talk radio that Shaw has a chance to be the opening day 3b

[Elktonnick]

The problem with giving Sandoval " a chance" is that by doing so you are denying a chance to ballplayers who demonstrated a positive attitude by coming into camp in shape. In my view Sandoval gave the proverbial finger to every pitcher on the team by reporting to camp in a condition that he was unable to pickup slow rollers because of his gut.

 

If it were up to me he'd be put on waivers and spend the year in Pawtucket until he was in the physical condition I wanted him to be in.

[Dojji]

If he stinks for half the season, you've just dug yourself into a giant hole. They can't wait that long after back to back last place finishes.

 

They can't if the team is otherwise competitive. If they're well out of it, that changes things. it also changes things if they're dominant. So it does still depend on the overall situation. If Panda is doing meh but not terrible and the team is a few games out, that might be enough to bench him, but if the team can carry Panda over the first couple months, or the team is already irrelevant, he should probably get a longer chance to see if we can at least give him some value in trade.

[User Name]

Attitude does not mean jack, in reality. What matters is production, and Panda ain't producing. That's the real problem. "Attitude" problems tend to lose importance when a ballplayer is producing.

[Dojji]

The problem with giving Sandoval " a chance" is that by doing so you are denying a chance to ballplayers who demonstrated a positive attitude by coming into camp in shape. In my view Sandoval gave the proverbial finger to every pitcher on the team by reporting to camp in a condition that he was unable to pickup slow rollers because of his gut.

 

If it were up to me he'd be put on waivers and spend the year in Pawtucket until he was in the physical condition I wanted him to be in.

 

We have exactly zero players right now that are definitely ready to take over as the starting third baseman of a contending team. Shaw is not anyone's first choice as a starting third sacker. The bench role he's playing now is acutally more or less ideal for him unless he keeps hitting over his head, which I honestly don't think he will. Beyond him we have a bunch of nobodies and maybes.

 

There's good reason to see what Panda can give us before we panic and throw our flock of maybes into the lineup every day.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Dojji

[Kimmi]

I am starting to hear on talk radio that Shaw has a chance to be the opening day 3b

 

Straight from the horse's mouth:

 

If $95 million man Pablo Sandoval is going to be the Red Sox's starting third baseman, he'll have to earn it, according to John Farrell. "As he's aware, the work has to translate to performance," Farrell said. "He understands this is about putting the best team on the field from Day 1."

 

There is officially a competition for third base.

[Kimmi]

If he stinks for half the season, you've just dug yourself into a giant hole. They can't wait that long after back to back last place finishes.

 

Well that's why I said it depends on how dire the situation is.

 

It's possible that Panda could be mildly struggling, but the team could still be winning despite that.

 

Anyway, it's a moot point how long I would give him.

[Kimmi]

I am not making assumptions about anything but I am evaluating the evidence that I see with my own eyes. By the fact he came in 20 lbs heavier and by published reports of his behavior and his own statements. Your attitude is typical of an "enabler" who makes excuses for people.

 

Wanting to give him a chance is not enabling anything. I just think people deserve a chance to make amends. If he doesn't improve, I'll be leading the charge to have Shaw start in his place.

 

As far as the evidence that you see with your eyes, you eyes will see what you want to see.