Retire Jason Varitek's number?

[SoxnCycles]

I don't think homer is a derogatory term. A homer is defined as "someone who shows blind loyalty to a team or organization, typically ignoring any shortcomings or faults they have." There is nothing wrong with rooting for your home team. It is less derogatory than the definition of "traditionalist" which is defined as "someone who is stubbornly conservative and narrow-minded."

 

Sounds like definitions you made up.

Seeing as there are no references cited, I'm betting you did.

[a700hitter]

I never made that argument. Your reading comprehension is terrible.

You must be kidding. I couldn't have been more clear in this thread about my position being that speed disrupts defense. If you didn't disagree with this, then you have been making a completely irrelevant argument.

[User Name]

I never made that argument. Your reading comprehension is terrible.

 

Just now you realize this?

[mvp 78]

I don't think homer is a derogatory term. A homer is defined as "someone who shows blind loyalty to a team or organization, typically ignoring any shortcomings or faults they have." There is nothing wrong with rooting for your home team. It is less derogatory than the definition of "traditionalist" which is defined as "someone who is stubbornly conservative and narrow-minded."

Being stubborn or narrow minded is worse than being called blindly loyal?

 

It's the same thing. Both are centered around ignoring other opinions that may contradict with yours.

[mvp 78]

Just now you realize this?

 

He just used to take a more traditionalist approach to message boards by ignoring all other opinions. He's now clearly just a homer because he's actually reading the posts but actively disagreeing with them.

[mvp 78]

Sounds like definitions you made up.

Seeing as there are no references cited, I'm betting you did.

 

I googled the homer definition and it was close enough. Couldn't find anything to corroborate that "traditionalist" stuff though.

 

Don't worry, OP will deliver...

[a700hitter]

I googled the homer definition and it was close enough. Couldn't find anything to corroborate that "traditionalist" stuff though.

 

Don't worry, OP will deliver...

A definition of "traditionalist":

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/traditionalist

[a700hitter]

Wrong again, s*** for Brains. If you want to criticize me, try being right some of the time. Douche.

 

Edit-- This is not @ you MVP-- just to be clear.

Edited January 12, 2016 by a700hitter

[mvp 78]

A definition of "traditionalist":

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/traditionalist

 

Doesn't resemble what you wrote, no mention of "narrow minded"

[a700hitter]

Doesn't resemble what you wrote, no mention of "narrow minded"

Did you scroll down to the adjective?

 

adj

"stubbornly conservative and narrow-minded"

Edited January 12, 2016 by a700hitter

[mvp 78]

"The noun traditionalist describes a person who believes the old ways are best, like a traditionalist who favors writing letters over sending emails. Sometimes, though, traditionalist describes someone so rigid that any new idea sounds like a bad one, like the traditionalist attitude that kept some American colonists from joining the Revolution."

 

I don't think anyone on here was using the "sometimes so rigid" definition when talking about baseball views. Not sure anyone here has advocated for the Sox to wear wool unis and to fill a full team of white guys. Unless that's how you really see yourself? Honestly, thought you were better than that though.

 

[a700hitter]

"The noun traditionalist describes a person who believes the old ways are best, like a traditionalist who favors writing letters over sending emails. Sometimes, though, traditionalist describes someone so rigid that any new idea sounds like a bad one, like the traditionalist attitude that kept some American colonists from joining the Revolution."

 

I don't think anyone on here was using the "sometimes so rigid" definition when talking about baseball views. Not sure anyone here has advocated for the Sox to wear wool unis and to fill a full team of white guys. Unless that's how you really see yourself? Honestly, thought you were better than that though.

 

LOL!! I am, and I don't find the term "Homer" to be derogatory and don't use it in that manner.

[mvp 78]

Homer Jay Simpson > homer the baseball play > Homer the poet > homer baseball fans > Homer, AK

[a700hitter]

Homer Jay Simpson > homer the baseball play > Homer the poet > homer baseball fans > Homer, AK

There you go. None of it is derogatory.

[mvp 78]

Wrong again, s*** for Brains. If you want to criticize me, try being right some of the time. Douche.

 

Edit-- This is not @ you MVP-- just to be clear.

 

I knew it wasn't meant for me. Obviously, I'm right at least some of the time...

[Bellhorn04]

You must be kidding. I couldn't have been more clear in this thread about my position being that speed disrupts defense. If you didn't disagree with this, then you have been making a completely irrelevant argument.

 

My statements probably were irrelevant to your simplistic and obvious statement that speed disrupts defense. It just so happens that I'm interested in all the pros and cons and nuances of the running game, not just that one simplistic and obvious concept. Hopefully that clears up any further misunderstandings.

[a700hitter]

My statements probably were irrelevant to your simplistic and obvious statement that speed disrupts defense. It just so happens that I'm interested in all the pros and cons and nuances of the running game, not just that one simplistic and obvious concept. Hopefully that clears up any further misunderstandings.

It is a very simple and obvious truth in baseball that disruption to defense caused by speed is not a positive for the defense. Yet, you have contributed to pages of discussion attempting to challenge that and when the absurdity of the challenge became apparent there has been an effort to misstate my position and to steer the discussion into other directions that are irrelevant, and now you are claiming that you have been just examining the pros and cons of the situation. While there is nothing in baseball (no skill or attribute) that guarantees success, there are certain skills and abilities that are clearly advantageous -- arm strength and speed are on that list. You say that you were just examining the pros and cons and nuances of the situation, but you were presenting it as a challenge to the position that I put forth. Anyway, I guess that you have tired of this pointless endeavor. It has been a slow few weeks with regard to Red Sox news, so we had to discuss something. No hard feelings.

[cp176]

Actually, it's just having a runner on first base that does that.

 

A fat slow guy on first base probably won't be of much concern to anyone. Athletic fast guys draw a little more attention.

[Kimmi]

The issue was about disrupting the defense, not about helping the guy at the plate, so don't keep trying to steer the argument to that narrow issue. Speed causes errors, misplays and encourages hitters to move the runner along by making productive outs (thus hurting the batter's stats while helping their team). Speed disrupts defense in many ways, and disruption to the defense is not good for the defense.

 

No, the initial argument was actually about whether the batter at the plate had an advantage when a speedy runner was on first base, due to the "disruption" that the speedy runner caused. The studies that I linked to you addressed that issue - the effect on the batter. It was even argued how the batter would see more fast balls and would thereby hit better.

 

In terms of disrupting the defense to the extent that it gives the hitter any advantage, the hitter's advantage does not exist. In fact, the hitter is at a disadvantage. In that sense, "disrupting the defense" is actually hurting the offense.

 

No one is denying that speed is a valuable weapon. Most of the team's advantage comes from the actual stolen bases, staying out of double plays, advancing an extra base, etc.

 

There does tend to be more balks with a speedy runner on first, so there's that. But the whole notion of a speedy runner disrupting the defense is largely overstated.

[a700hitter]

No, the initial argument was actually about whether the batter at the plate had an advantage when a speedy runner was on first base, due to the "disruption" that the speedy runner caused. The studies that I linked to you addressed that issue - the effect on the batter. It was even argued how the batter would see more fast balls and would thereby hit better.

 

In terms of disrupting the defense to the extent that it gives the hitter any advantage, the hitter's advantage does not exist. In fact, the hitter is at a disadvantage. In that sense, "disrupting the defense" is actually hurting the offense.

 

No one is denying that speed is a valuable weapon. Most of the team's advantage comes from the actual stolen bases, staying out of double plays, advancing an extra base, etc.

 

There does tend to be more balks with a speedy runner on first, so there's that. But the whole notion of a speedy runner disrupting the defense is largely overstated.

That was not the discussion in this thread, and I stated several times in this thread that I have no strong opinion on whether the batter has an advantage. Despite the fact that I don't have a strong opinion on that issue, I don't think those studies that you cited months ago present enough evidence to make a reliable case either way. The discussion in this thread has been centered on speed disrupting defense.

[Kimmi]

I don't think homer is a derogatory term. A homer is defined as "someone who shows blind loyalty to a team or organization, typically ignoring any shortcomings or faults they have." There is nothing wrong with rooting for your home team. It is less derogatory than the definition of "traditionalist" which is defined as "someone who is stubbornly conservative and narrow-minded."

 

Homer is most definitely a derogatory term. Don't try to state otherwise. It has a negative connotation attached to it, and you know it.

 

Having traditional baseball views or being old school does not have any negative connotation. Think of all of the players/managers that are traditional or old school. There is nothing but respect for those guys.

[Kimmi]

That was not the discussion in this thread, and I stated several times in this thread that I have no strong opinion on whether the batter has an advantage. Despite the fact that I don't have a strong opinion on that issue, I don't think those studies that you cited months ago present enough evidence to make a reliable case either way. The discussion in this thread has been centered on speed disrupting defense.

 

No it wasn't. Read my point #1 to you several pages back.

 

Perhaps you took it on a different tangent, but my posts have been in regards to whether disrupting the defense helps the batter.

[a700hitter]

Homer is most definitely a derogatory term. Don't try to state otherwise. It has a negative connotation attached to it, and you know it.

 

Having traditional baseball views or being old school does not have any negative connotation. Think of all of the players/managers that are traditional or old school. There is nothing but respect for those guys.

Maybe I have worked with Employment Lawyers for too long, your intent doesn't matter when using a term that is derogatory. Calling someone a traditionalist is an insult in my opinion. Most labels are offensive, no matter how subtle you intend them to be.

[Kimmi]

A fat slow guy on first base probably won't be of much concern to anyone. Athletic fast guys draw a little more attention.

 

A slow guy on first is not as much of a concern to steal a base, but the defense still plays differently when there is a runner on first versus when there is not a runner on first, whether that runner is speedy or not. Having the defense out of its "typical" position is what creates an advantage for the hitter.

[a700hitter]

No it wasn't. Read my point #1 to you several pages back.

 

Perhaps you took it on a different tangent, but my posts have been in regards to whether disrupting the defense helps the batter.

And read my reply to that post, where I stated that I had no strong opinion on that issue and didn't find the studies convincing despite not having any strong opinion on the issue. This was to correct your claim that I rejected the studies because the conflicted with my traditionalist views.

[Kimmi]

Maybe I have worked with Employment Lawyers for too long, your intent doesn't matter when using a term that is derogatory. Calling someone a traditionalist is an insult in my opinion. Most labels are offensive, no matter how subtle you intend them to be.

 

Well if you think calling someone a traditionalist is an insult, I think that is rather telling of your opinion of traditionalist views, not mine. I've said many times that my father is very traditional in his baseball thinking, and he is the last person I would ever insult.

[Kimmi]

And read my reply to that post, where I stated that I had no strong opinion on that issue and didn't find the studies convincing despite not having any strong opinion on the issue. This was to correct your claim that I rejected the studies because the conflicted with my traditionalist views.

 

When we first debated this, that is not the opinion that you gave.

[a700hitter]

Well if you think calling someone a traditionalist is an insult, I think that is rather telling of your opinion of traditionalist views, not mine. I've said many times that my father is very traditional in his baseball thinking, and he is the last person I would ever insult.

If your father doesn't mind the label, that is his business.

[Kimmi]

If your father doesn't mind the label, that is his business.

 

He is proud of his traditionalist views, and why shouldn't he be? Some of them are very wrong, but he has no reason to be ashamed of what he believes. Those beliefs are shaped from years and years of experience.

[a700hitter]

He is proud of his traditionalist views, and why shouldn't he be? Some of them are very wrong, but he has no reason to be ashamed of what he believes. Those beliefs are shaped from years and years of experience.

I am proud of my views too, but I don't like being labeled.