The Official Dead Horse Topics Thread

[cp176]

Not convinced that Bard was destined for greatness in any role. Would have had to have traded Middlebrows early in his first burst. They weren't that good.

[mvp 78]

I personally think Bard was a lost cause before he was ever converted to a starter. Remember he fell apart not in 2012 but in the last month of 2011.

 

Yes, he wasn't ready to be a closer. His career wasn't ruined by Ben/Bobby V.

[mvp 78]

Signing Stephen Drew midseason was the beginning of Ben's downfall.

 

Lies, signing Drew ruined Xander's rookie campaignfirst and foremost. He was an unnecessary transaction that was only good for pissing off SBF.

[Kimmi]

Disturbing? Not at all. It is just evidence that no one was beating down his door to give him a GM job.

 

DD was released from his contract to pursue other opportunities. I realize that this could be a save face explanation provided by the Tigers, but the Red Sox hired Ben's replacement while he was still with the Red Sox. There is no plausible cover story for that. He'd been displaced (if you don't like the word "fired").

 

OK then, why do you find it so hard to believe that Cherington would rather teach than be a GM.

 

FTR, I do not disagree that Cherington was 'fired'. I am not one of the people who were arguing otherwise. I just don't think that being 'fired' necessarily means that he was a bad GM. It just means that the Sox were ready to go in another direction.

 

And if you insist on arguing that Ben was fired because he was a bad GM, then that must hold true for Dombrowski as well. "For those who insist on arguing that Dombrowski was a good GM, my blanket response is that the Detroit owners did not fire him for doing a good job. It doesn't work that way."

[Kimmi]

Duquette was not a bad GM, he procured some great players, we had some good years under him. But ultimately he failed us. He couldn't finish the job.

 

So, do you think Ben was a good GM or a bad GM? Couldn't you make a very similar statement about Ben that you made about Duquette? Except that in 2013, Ben was able to finish the job.

[Kimmi]

In fairness to the Duke, ownership was very dysfunctional in those days.

 

It could be argued that ownership, aka Lucchino and Werner, were rather dysfunctional in Cherington's days.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I will not be relegated to discussing topics in this thread. If the mood strikes me to bring up Wily Mo Pena for Bronson Arroyo, I will do it in one of the other threads. This will be my first and last post in this thread. Down with censorship.

 

This is a user-created thread for discussions pertaining to a multitude of subjects, and in no way bars you from posting about them in other threads. This is literally the exact opposite of censorship. The only censorship on Talksox is the lack of fight-inciting political discussions and pornography. The internet is not the place for sexual content.

[Kimmi]

If you read most of the reporting on Seattle it was a major shakeup and Dipoto was the number 1 candidate. He of course got the job. There is every indication that Ben probably knew he wasn't a real contender for that job. Moreover Seattle had already committed to their manager.

 

Ben could have had the Ass't GM's job reportedly in LA and there was of course Cashman's comments.

 

I think that the only reason why Ben was not a real contender for the job is because he was not interested in the job. A major shakeup in Seattle has nothing to do with Ben being a serious candidate, had he shown interest.

[Kimmi]

Rick Porcello exists!

 

I think Porcello will pleasantly surprise you this season.

[Kimmi]

Really reaching on that one, jacko.

 

I don't even understand what he's trying to say on that one.

[Kimmi]

I have thoughts concerning JD Drew taking called third strikes!!!

 

JD Drew was so underappreciated and so misunderstood.

 

His contract was one year too long, but otherwise, that was a very good signing by Theo.

[Kimmi]

I personally think Bard was a lost cause before he was ever converted to a starter. Remember he fell apart not in 2012 but in the last month of 2011.

 

You speak the truth Dojji. People want to blame Bard's demise on Cherington trying to make him a starter. He was showing signs of having lost it in 2011. He likely wouldn't have been any more successful had he remained in the BP.

[Kimmi]

I will not be relegated to discussing topics in this thread. If the mood strikes me to bring up Wily Mo Pena for Bronson Arroyo, I will do it in one of the other threads. This will be my first and last post in this thread. Down with censorship.

 

Too late. This is already your second post in this thread.

 

I am not being relegated to discussing topics in this thread only. If the mood strikes me in another thread, I will post about Wily Mo, Cherington, or anyone else I want to post about.

[Kimmi]

Signing Stephen Drew midseason was the beginning of Ben's downfall.

 

Signing Stephen Drew was another good (and necessary) move at the time it happened. Obviously, it didn't work out, but it was the right thing to do.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I have some serious concerns about Frazee's big trade, I think it will come back to bite the team in the ass. Anyone who thinks it will pan out is a moron.

[Kimmi]

This is a user-created thread for discussions pertaining to a multitude of subjects, and in no way bars you from posting about them in other threads. This is literally the exact opposite of censorship. The only censorship on Talksox is the lack of fight-inciting political discussions and pornography. The internet is not the place for sexual content.

 

Well said Youk. Might I add that I think you are an awesome moderator, or if you prefer, a super, duper moderator. Coming from a forum that was overmoderated in a very inconsistent and biased fashion (IMO), I say that with utmost sincerity.

[Youk Of The Nation]

For the last time, no, I will not send you naked pictures.

[Kimmi]

For the last time, no, I will not send you naked pictures.

 

You can't blame a gal for trying, can you?

[Youk Of The Nation]

I suppose not, it wouldn't be fair to expect.

 

Anyways, back on one of this thread's topics, I agree that JD Drew was not nearly as bad of a signing as a lot of people seem to think. I guess I can see Kimmi's point that perhaps it would have worked out better if it was shorter, but he certainly brought something to the team, especially in 2007.

[Kimmi]

I suppose not, it wouldn't be fair to expect.

 

Anyways, back on one of this thread's topics, I agree that JD Drew was not nearly as bad of a signing as a lot of people seem to think. I guess I can see Kimmi's point that perhaps it would have worked out better if it was shorter, but he certainly brought something to the team, especially in 2007.

 

Like this year's market for pitching, the market for corner outfielders was ripe the offseason in which JD was signed. Look at some of the other contracts that were handed out to other corner OFs. I think the contract was a year too long, but otherwise, it was a good deal.

 

Because I never miss an opportunity to post my favorite scouting quote about JD's defense, I'll post it again. "JD will easily get to balls that Trot had to dive for, and he will be criticized for it." Truer words were never spoken.

[a700hitter]

Too late. This is already your second post in this thread.

 

I am not being relegated to discussing topics in this thread only. If the mood strikes me in another thread, I will post about Wily Mo, Cherington, or anyone else I want to post about.

Ooops! LOL!! And now this is my 3rd post in this thread. Damn it!

[a700hitter]

For the last time, no, I will not send you naked pictures.

Uh, but you are blowing up everyone else's inbox with those photos.

[a700hitter]

OK then, why do you find it so hard to believe that Cherington would rather teach than be a GM.

 

FTR, I do not disagree that Cherington was 'fired'. I am not one of the people who were arguing otherwise. I just don't think that being 'fired' necessarily means that he was a bad GM. It just means that the Sox were ready to go in another direction.

 

And if you insist on arguing that Ben was fired because he was a bad GM, then that must hold true for Dombrowski as well. "For those who insist on arguing that Dombrowski was a good GM, my blanket response is that the Detroit owners did not fire him for doing a good job. It doesn't work that way."

DD wasn't doing a good job in Detroit at the time he parted ways with the Tigers. I don't disagree.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Uh, but you are blowing up everyone else's inbox with those photos.

 

I feel it is a gift I am lucky...no, make that obligated, ​to share with the world.

[a700hitter]

I feel it is a gift I am lucky...no, make that obligated, ​to share with the world.

If you've got it, flaunt it.

[jd98]

I have some serious concerns about Frazee's big trade, I think it will come back to bite the team in the ass. Anyone who thinks it will pan out is a moron.

 

Frazee deserves some leeway since he just won a World Series. One bad move is no big deal. Ruth is fat lazy bum with attitude problems anyway.

[Bellhorn04]

So, do you think Ben was a good GM or a bad GM? Couldn't you make a very similar statement about Ben that you made about Duquette? Except that in 2013, Ben was able to finish the job.

 

Kimmi, I was a Ben supporter up until 2015. And I do agree with you that he did a lot of good things.

 

The short version of why I think Ben had to be replaced comes down to this:

 

When you're the GM of the Boston Red Sox and blessed with one of the highest payrolls in the game, you can't finish last two years in a row. No matter what the underlying reasons and explanations are, that is a crushing failure.

[Bellhorn04]

Frazee deserves some leeway since he just won a World Series. One bad move is no big deal. Ruth is fat lazy bum with attitude problems anyway.

 

A body like Ruth's will decline rapidly. The guy lives on beer and hot dogs, for God's sakes.

[Kimmi]

DD wasn't doing a good job in Detroit at the time he parted ways with the Tigers. I don't disagree.

 

But does that make him a bad GM?

[Kimmi]

I feel it is a gift I am lucky...no, make that obligated, ​to share with the world.

 

Umm, and so I am apparently not part of this world?