Dombrowski in Cherington Out

[SoxHop]

The team has an elite farm system - amateur and pro scouting have been among the league's best (and the staff has been kept together largely). The org is going to have at minimum four Top 50 prospects (Margot, Devers, Moncada, Espinoza) and at least three of them in the Top 20 or higher. And Johnson, Travis and Guerra will all be on somebody's Top 100. The scouting and development have produced four or five guys who'll be starting next season for this team.

 

I guess I was more thinking the "Masterson, Craig, Sandoval, ETC" kind of acquires.

 

Maybe I have this wrong, but wouldn't the scouts be a part of the decision making acquisitions.

[sk7326]

I guess I was more thinking the "Masterson, Craig, Sandoval, ETC" kind of acquires.

 

Maybe I have this wrong, but wouldn't the scouts be a part of the decision making acquisitions.

 

I think the scouts matter there, but it's a pretty small part of the overall scouting operation. And Hanley's issues have been A) medical and stuff you could have guessed. I had issues with the Sandoval acquisition from the beginning. Masterson and Craig are about speculation and medical evaluations largely (all are great prices if the guys could bounce back). But yeah that has not worked out and it is something Dombrowski needs to address.

 

But unlike most failed GM-ships, Cherington left a lot of good stuff. As I pointed out elsewhere, if you look at four years and see, "four years, one title, stacked development system", you'd wonder why he was ousted. (I am not questioning why he was ousted, there were too many losses) This is not the shambles that say the Mariners situation is.

[sk7326]

I wonder which of the deposed GMs will find new GM positions for next season.

 

If Cherington wants in, this is a perfect fit.

[sk7326]

Olney podcast yesterday flew through the openings - really the Boston one for GM is going to be a guy who can manage "other stuff". Clearly Dombrowski is making decisions about the big league club, and probably at his age and mandate does not intend to spend much time on the org (which is not actually broken). So Hazen would actually make sense in terms of assuring the continuity on the stuff which has worked.

[a700hitter]

There are so many GM jobs open that we should all submit resumes. LOL!! If Ben can't land one of the open spots, that will be very telling.

[sk7326]

There are so many GM jobs open that we should all submit resumes. LOL!! If Ben can't land one of the open spots, that will be very telling.

 

Maybe - or he just wants to go on vacation. What is clear is that not all the GM positions are equal - all have the same title, but clearly fundamentally different gigs.

 

SEA: Win now without trade assets

MIL: Classic rebuild

PHI: Clean up some of the infrastructure, get analytics to industry standards. Prez will be involved in beisbol, but not as much as say Dombrowski.

BOS: Prez is managing big league roster. GM keeping rest of org going, try to limit brain drain.

ANA: Meddling owner and no control over the field manager.

[a700hitter]

Maybe - or he just wants to go on vacation. What is clear is that not all the GM positions are equal - all have the same title, but clearly fundamentally different gigs.

 

SEA: Win now without trade assets

MIL: Classic rebuild

PHI: Clean up some of the infrastructure, get analytics to industry standards. Prez will be involved in beisbol, but not as much as say Dombrowski.

BOS: Prez is managing big league roster. GM keeping rest of org going, try to limit brain drain.

ANA: Meddling owner and no control over the field manager.

For which of these would Ben be a good candidate.

 

Take a vacation? Seriously? That is the excuse for unemployed people.

[Kimmi]

For which of these would Ben be a good candidate.

 

Take a vacation? Seriously? That is the excuse for unemployed people.

 

No, it's not an excuse. You think everything is an excuse for something. It is quite possible that Ben wants to take some time off from baseball.

[a700hitter]

No, it's not an excuse. You think everything is an excuse for something. It is quite possible that Ben wants to take some time off from baseball.

 

If he decides to take a vacation, the other possibility would be that he is stupid. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt that he is not stupid.

[iortiz]

Taking vacations instead of taking a new Job? Is he 65+ YO or something? He looks younger Haha. This is getting ridiculous.

 

Let's face it. He is a nobody. He was just the LL's puppet in Boston. I really really doubt that he becomes a GM in the near future.

Edited September 18, 2015 by iortiz

[a700hitter]

A

Taking vacations instead of taking a new Jonathan? Is he 65+ YO or something? He looks younger Haha. This is getting ridiculous.

 

Let's face it. He is a nobody. He was just the LL's puppet in Boston. I really really doubt that he becomes a GM in the near future.

He was Theo's coffee boy and gopher. I don't see him being offered anyone of the many open positions. I don't even read that he is being interviewed or under consideration. And if he can't land a spot this year with an unusually large number of job openings, his "vacation" will be a long one.

[Bellhorn04]

Cherington will get a job. The way the Sox are looking now is making him look better.

[a700hitter]

Cherington will get a job. The way the Sox are looking now is making him look better.

I am down a case of beer to iortiz on my Porcello bet. I would like to recoup my losses. Would you like to wage a case of beer that he gets another GM position?

 

Edit: We are still in last place, and we just lost a series to the floundering O's How in the world does that look good?

Edited September 18, 2015 by a700hitter

[sk7326]

Taking vacations instead of taking a new Jonathan? Is he 65+ YO or something? He looks younger Haha. This is getting ridiculous.

 

Let's face it. He is a nobody. He was just the LL's puppet in Boston. I really really doubt that he becomes a GM in the near future.

 

Was he? He predated the ownership!

 

Let's look at the basics here. He was an exemplary scouting and development head before he got to assistant GM. He was a guy smart people wanted to work for ... notice how little turnover there was in the development machine even after Epstein and McLeod left. (by contrast, SEA went through them like infant diapers) He did not do a great job with the major league roster - which is why he is out, and why they brought in Dombrowski. But he left the system loaded - not as loaded with pitching, but plenty of currency that Dombrowski kind of HAS to trade anyway. It's a system that is going to spit out half of our starting lineup next season.

 

It will be curious how much house cleaning Dombrowski does - a new guy will always do some of that ... but realistically, the team he inherited is largely very good and only needs a couple of things (the things Dombrowski himself is best equipped to do). The GM position in Boston is a de facto assistant position now - but it will still require a lot of work, keeping the machine going, which Dombrowski himself doesn't really have the interest to do at this point. Dombrowski's job is to identify who is untouchable - and Cherington has fortunately made that a tricky question.

[sk7326]

If he decides to take a vacation, the other possibility would be that he is stupid. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt that he is not stupid.

 

Why would you say that? High pressure gig, somewhat thankless. Probably has a lot of money. GM gigs out there do not look that awesome (and there will be others). Take some time off. If it were 1980, I'd say follow the Dead for a summer. You have the rest of your life to punch the clock. Most people don't have the luxury to take some time away.

 

It's a loser's mentality I suppose if winning means just acquiring and consuming ...

[a700hitter]

Why would you say that? High pressure gig, somewhat thankless. Probably has a lot of money. GM gigs out there do not look that awesome (and there will be others). Take some time off. If it were 1980, I'd say follow the Dead for a summer. You have the rest of your life to punch the clock. Most people don't have the luxury to take some time away.

 

It's a loser's mentality I suppose if winning means just acquiring and consuming ...

Once you are out of that environment, it is a lot harder to get back in. Whether he is good or bad at his job, he had to work like hell to get to that level. 41 year olds who are high achievers don't take a vacation. They just don't, or they get forgotten. LOL!!

[sk7326]

Once you are out of that environment, it is a lot harder to get back in. Whether he is good or bad at his job, he had to work like hell to get to that level. 41 year olds who are high achievers don't take a vacation. They just don't, or they get forgotten. LOL!!

 

A five year break yes, a one year one not so much. Coaches do that all the time - often taking TV gigs to say things that everybody knows.

[iortiz]

I am down a case of beer to iortiz on my Porcello bet. I would like to recoup my losses. Would you like to wage a case of beer that he gets another GM position?

 

Edit: We are still in last place, and we just lost a series to the floundering O's How in the world does that look good?

 

We need a GM who knows how to assemble a team that can be competitive for 162+ games, not only a month. Even s***** teams (like us) have a good month.

 

Let's not fool ourselves, This team has been a disaster for a while (3/4 years), reason why Cherington is out. He had to go.

 

I feel confident now, at least DD has a superior profile by far as GM. Hopefully he can clean BC's mess.

Edited September 18, 2015 by iortiz

[a700hitter]

A five year break yes, a one year one not so much. Coaches do that all the time - often taking TV gigs to say things that everybody knows.

GMs that do it don't get GM gigs again. Steve Phillips went to broadcasting, never to return to a FO. We will just have to disagree on this one.

[sk7326]

We need a GM who knows how to assembles a team that can be competitive for 162+ games, not only a month. Even s***** teams (like us) have a good month.

 

Let's not fool ourselves, This team has been a disaster for a while (3/4 years), reason why Cherington is out. He had to go.

 

I feel confident now, at least DD has a superior profile by far as GM. Hopefully he can clean BC's mess.

 

They'll be in the mix next season - Dombrowski will figure out the pitching. Doesn't have to do a lot with the lineup. Ramirez' shoulder heals, and he'll be fine - a bad defender wherever they put him, but a good player in sum.

 

Funny thing is if you flip your statement around while maintaining all the facts ... won a championship in four seasons, leaves behind the game's best farm system and a starting lineup full of young, cheap star level talent ...

[a700hitter]

They'll be in the mix next season - Dombrowski will figure out the pitching. Doesn't have to do a lot with the lineup. Ramirez' shoulder heals, and he'll be fine - a bad defender wherever they put him, but a good player in sum.

 

Funny thing is if you flip your statement around while maintaining all the facts ... won a championship in four seasons, leaves behind the game's best farm system and a starting lineup full of young, cheap star level talent ...

... and was replaced by the owners.

[sk7326]

GMs that do it don't get GM gigs again. Steve Phillips went to broadcasting, never to return to a FO. We will just have to disagree on this one.

 

Helps to avoid a cheating scandal while you are on sabbatical.

[a700hitter]

Helps to avoid a cheating scandal while you are on sabbatical.

He was already out of the FO gig for 6 years before the affair scandal hit.

[iortiz]

A five year break yes, a one year one not so much. Coaches do that all the time - often taking TV gigs to say things that everybody knows.

 

Probably he will be fine on tv. As a GM? He needs to get more experience. I do not think he wants vacations, he wants a new job. As a GM is going to be tough right now (unless he becomes a puppet again). Probably he will develop his professional career in other positions very well, and someday become a GM again.

[sk7326]

... and was replaced by the owners.

 

It makes his reign really odd - I never said he shouldn't have been ousted. The major league record was fair game. But it's also noteworthy that he left a ton behind. There are posters who talk of the disaster left in his wake - and that is not supported by much of anything. What happened in Seattle (as a counterexample) was an actual disaster. Milwaukee also is in a situation which will take a few years to dig out of. Dombrowski's job is clear - and he has an unusually good number of tools to do his job. The concern I have is a housecleaning that is largely not necessary - because so much of what exists currently is like league best level. If he keeps the infrastructure around mostly - this has a chance to work out really well. We know a lot of the stupid things which he did in Detroit were at the behest of the pizza guy.

[Bellhorn04]

I am down a case of beer to iortiz on my Porcello bet. I would like to recoup my losses. Would you like to wage a case of beer that he gets another GM position?

 

No. I'm not sure it'll be another GM job.

[iortiz]

They'll be in the mix next season - Dombrowski will figure out the pitching. Doesn't have to do a lot with the lineup. Ramirez' shoulder heals, and he'll be fine - a bad defender wherever they put him, but a good player in sum.

 

Funny thing is if you flip your statement around while maintaining all the facts ... won a championship in four seasons, leaves behind the game's best farm system and a starting lineup full of young, cheap star level talent ...

2013 was a fluke year. I already rest my case. If you want to think that it is was because a good strategy, it is up to you.

 

The funny thing is that BC had the opportunity to assamble a competitive pitching staff, and he preferred to go with a bunch of No. 5s. Even a 5 YO boy knew that this was going to be a very unbalanced team. It is going to take time to assamble a good pitching staff. Build a roster with a bunch of No.4-5s is easy, mostly when you overpay.

[a700hitter]

2013 was a fluke year. I already rest my case. If you want to think that it is was because a good strategy, it is up to you.

 

The funny thing is that BC had the opportunity to assamble a competitive pitching staff, and he preferred to go with a bunch of No. 5s. Even a 5 YO boy knew that this was going to be a very unbalanced team. It is going to take time to assamble a good pitching staff. Build a roster with a bunch of No.4-5s is easy, mostly when you overpay.

You don't win without pitching and Ben left DD with a total rebulid job -- both starting and bullpen.

 

Edit: He also left him with a potential hole at first. Is Shaw really the answer? He left him with a long contract fat third baseman that can't hit lefties (OPS .478). They have one power hitter and he will turn 40 next season. There are no power sticks in the OF. There is plenty of work for DD to do.

Edited September 18, 2015 by a700hitter

[sk7326]

You don't win without pitching and Ben left DD with a total rebulid job -- both starting and bullpen.

 

Edit: He also left him with a potential hole at first. Is Shaw really the answer? He left him with a long contract fat third baseman that can't hit lefties (OPS .478). They have one power hitter and he will turn 40 next season. There are no power sticks in the OF. There is plenty of work for DD to do.

 

The team mashed since the all-star break, and that's without their 2nd best hitter providing any real contribution. (and if you wanted to go get Jason Heyward or Justin Upton, I wouldn't argue at all) But the lineup is a relative nonissue.

[a700hitter]

The team mashed since the all-star break, and that's without their 2nd best hitter providing any real contribution. (and if you wanted to go get Jason Heyward or Justin Upton, I wouldn't argue at all) But the lineup is a relative nonissue.

Compared to the enormous challenges on the pitching side, the offense is relatively a non-issue, but there is an issue at first . If Hanley can't hack it there, he has to be moved. I like Shaw, but not everyone is convinced that he is the answer. Sandoval against lefties is a huge issue. Who is the real Jackie Bradley-- the 2014 version or the August/September 2015 version. These are small issues compared to the wreckage that Ben left on the pitching side. It is not smoothe running machine that DD has inherited.