2016 Red Sox Hot Stove Discussion Thread

[SoxHop]

If there's one thing we can all agree on, it's that Farrell is a terrible manager. He's been given a BP full of weapons, yet I can't help but think he'll cost the team a handful of games by using the wrong reliever at the wrong spot.

 

You know..... one thing I liked about DD was that he saw H-Ram in left and put an end to that massacre right away. I don't know if I should really give him credit for that........ but as an outsider I guess it was easier to say.......... .WHOA........ this is a massive F..... up......... and let's not do that any more.........

 

Which I think didn't take guts to do............. it was more along the lines of realizing and stating that the monkey on meth was actually controlling the space ship housing the human astronauts hurtling in the trajectory of that massive destructive comet and that the path of the spaceship needs to be changed immediately........

[Spudboy]

We are trying to shift the discussion to Farrell.

 

Well if Ben is a dead horse, Farrell must be Limping Ox ( credit George Carlin ).

[a700hitter]

Well if Ben is a dead horse, Farrell must be Limping Ox ( credit George Carlin ).

Carlin was the best.

[jacksonianmarch]

Farrell Joe Torre'd your bullpen. When all of your starters suck, you cannot wear out the same pen guys or else they won't be available to you by seasons end either due to injury or ineffectiveness

[Bellhorn04]

Farrell Joe Torre'd your bullpen. When all of your starters suck, you cannot wear out the same pen guys or else they won't be available to you by seasons end either due to injury or ineffectiveness

 

The bullpen also all sucked, outside of Koji and Tazawa. Well, Ross was mediocre.

[SoxnCycles]

Gee, I thought the Sox finishing last was all BCs fault...

 

As for whining about what topics are beaten to death, you guys should be thankful posters like Kimmi and Pal are willing to put with the abuse and buck the "We're miserable so we have to blame someone" crowd.

This place would a f***ing morgue without them.

You'd have A700 constantly posting "(fill in the blank) sucks" to no one in particular and the suck ups posting "You're absolutely right!"

 

MVP, if you're tired of the Cherrington talk, quit bitching and start a new conversation.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Gee, I thought the Sox finishing last was all BCs fault...

 

As for whining about what topics are beaten to death, you guys should be thankful posters like Kimmi and Pal are willing to put with the abuse and buck the "We're miserable so we have to blame someone" crowd.

This place would a f***ing morgue without them.

You'd have A700 constantly posting "(fill in the blank) sucks" to no one in particular and the suck ups posting "You're absolutely right!"

 

MVP, if you're tired of the Cherrington talk, quit bitching and start a new conversation.

 

There is a reason why the same topics are getting beat to death. We can never move on and keep bringing it back up lol. I personally get annoyed of it too, but I just don't say anything. I have read every single page in this thread. When we talk baseball, I love it. If we can get back to just that and not worry what other posters do, that'd be great.

[cp176]

There is a reason why the same topics are getting beat to death. We can never move on and keep bringing it back up lol. I personally get annoyed of it too, but I just don't say anything. I have read every single page in this thread. When we talk baseball, I love it. If we can get back to just that and not worry what other posters do, that'd be great.

 

 

It's all Dombrowski's fault.

[mvp 78]

So back on topic... The Sox seem to be done with their offseason. However, if you were the GM, what is one move you'd make?

 

I'd send a package of prospects for a solid #2, unless the asking price is in the Shelby Miller (oh god what is that gm thinking?!?!?) range. Fall back plan is to just sign Mike Leake (no draft pick comp) and take a nap.

[Palodios]

I'm not convinced the Red Sox are done. They've spent too much to have so many holes in the rotation.

 

I'm hoping for Kazmir or Cashner but it is more likely they look at high end reclaimation projects like Fister and Lee.

[Elktonnick]

I don't think they are done also. I hope they make a move for more pitching. It would be nice , it fact it would be terrific, if they found some way to move Ramirez and possibly Sandoval. But I don't expect it.

[dupree]

I honestly thought a move of Pablo for Shields would be the best move and that both teams would get the deal done. Even if the Sox eat some of Pablo's salary and take on all of Sheilds it would still be a win in my book.

 

You get an innings eater who has experience in the AL east and it allows you to move Hanley to 3rd and put Shaw or another big bat at 1st. It solves so many problems and takes a lot of worries away about Hanley play 1B.

 

Price

Shields

E-rod

Bucholtz

Porcello

 

Owens, Kelly, & Johnson as depth

 

The young core stays together and move bad contract for bad contract it's a win win

[Elktonnick]

HR will do damage defensively wherever he plays. But you are correct I think HR would do less damage at third.

[Northern Star]

and take a nap.

 

Didn't he already sign with Cleveland?

[Northern Star]

HR will do damage defensively wherever he plays. But you are correct I think HR would do less damage at third.

 

even less at DH.

 

(I realize we already have that position filled).

[Kimmi]

First of all I think Jim Palmer is an awful analyst but not because he doesn't know baseball or pitching. He does know his stuff. He is awful on television because he talks too much and treats his audience like they are all watching their first baseball game. But if you can get by that he offers useful insight especially on the art and strategy of pitching. On that he isn't biased.

 

Palmer's criticism of Farrell was that he burns his relievers by warming them up needlessly and not bringing them into a game after they have warmed up. Now some of that is that may have been due to the weak starting rotation but Palmer maintained that Farrell and the Red Sox were not tracking how often the relievers were warming up nor how many warm up pitches they were throwing without entering the ballgame. Showalter and the Orioles have a very elaborate system on that regard.

 

Now that may seem incredible for a team which values every kind of statistic but Palmer maintained that was the case. After he said it a couple of times I began to notice how Farrell was doing exactly that, namely warming up pitchers then not bringing them into the game. Getting guys up then sitting them down only to get up again. Palmer thought this was one of the reasons Boston was burning so many relievers namely overworking them needlessly.

 

It will be one of the things I will be watching very closely this year.

 

First of all, I highly, highly doubt that the Sox are not keeping track of how many times relievers were warming up or how many warm up pitches they threw. That to me sounds extremely unlikely for any team.

 

It's quite possible that Farrell had pitchers warming in the pen more often than other teams. I think most of that was due to the weakness of our staff. It's a difficult call when your starter starts struggling early. You don't want warm up a reliever if you don't have to, yet if the starter is struggling, you pretty much have to get a reliever up before the game gets out of hand.

[Kimmi]

Gee, I thought the Sox finishing last was all BCs fault...

 

As for whining about what topics are beaten to death, you guys should be thankful posters like Kimmi and Pal are willing to put with the abuse and buck the "We're miserable so we have to blame someone" crowd.

This place would a f***ing morgue without them.

You'd have A700 constantly posting "(fill in the blank) sucks" to no one in particular and the suck ups posting "You're absolutely right!"

 

MVP, if you're tired of the Cherrington talk, quit bitching and start a new conversation.

 

I personally don't understand what the problem is if I and some others want to debate something baseball related, even if it's been debated before. That's the purpoe of a baseball forum, after all. At least it was something to talk about when not much else is going on.

[Kimmi]

So back on topic... The Sox seem to be done with their offseason. However, if you were the GM, what is one move you'd make?

 

I'd send a package of prospects for a solid #2, unless the asking price is in the Shelby Miller (oh god what is that gm thinking?!?!?) range. Fall back plan is to just sign Mike Leake (no draft pick comp) and take a nap.

 

I would sign a #2/3 starter, but I would be very hesitant to send a package of prospects for one.

[Kimmi]

I'm not convinced the Red Sox are done. They've spent too much to have so many holes in the rotation.

 

I'm hoping for Kazmir or Cashner but it is more likely they look at high end reclaimation projects like Fister and Lee.

 

I'm not convinced the Sox are done either. However, Dombrowski might very well wait until midseason to see how things shake out. He will not be shy about pulling the trigger on a big trade during the season once he has identified what the team's needs are.

[Kimmi]

I honestly thought a move of Pablo for Shields would be the best move and that both teams would get the deal done. Even if the Sox eat some of Pablo's salary and take on all of Sheilds it would still be a win in my book.

 

You get an innings eater who has experience in the AL east and it allows you to move Hanley to 3rd and put Shaw or another big bat at 1st. It solves so many problems and takes a lot of worries away about Hanley play 1B.

 

Price

Shields

E-rod

Bucholtz

Porcello

 

Owens, Kelly, & Johnson as depth

 

The young core stays together and move bad contract for bad contract it's a win win

 

The Pablo for Shields trade made all the sense in the world to me.

 

The word on Pablo is that he has worked extremely hard on his diet and conditioning this offseason. He will not be nearly as bad as he was last year.

[Elktonnick]

First of all, I highly, highly doubt that the Sox are not keeping track of how many times relievers were warming up or how many warm up pitches they threw. That to me sounds extremely unlikely for any team.

 

It's quite possible that Farrell had pitchers warming in the pen more often than other teams. I think most of that was due to the weakness of our staff. It's a difficult call when your starter starts struggling early. You don't want warm up a reliever if you don't have to, yet if the starter is struggling, you pretty much have to get a reliever up before the game gets out of hand.

 

Take it up with Mr Palmer who repeated the criticism over several broadcasts. I confess I too was skeptical until I saw how often Farrell burned relievers by warming them up and then not using them. Another possibility is the team is collecting the stats and Farrell is simply disregarding the data.

 

There has to be some failure on Farrell's part since except for 2013 he consistently is a sub 500 manager over 5 seasons. While I am not the biggest user of all the sabermetric measures Farrell's BMAR is below major league average.

[Elktonnick]

The Pablo for Shields trade made all the sense in the world to me.

 

The word on Pablo is that he has worked extremely hard on his diet and conditioning this offseason. He will not be nearly as bad as he was last year.

 

That's faint praise. He can't be any worse now can he?

[dupree]

The Pablo for Shields trade made all the sense in the world to me.

 

The word on Pablo is that he has worked extremely hard on his diet and conditioning this offseason. He will not be nearly as bad as he was last year.

Great so now he walks into Fenway at a slim & trim 300lbs. He also gains weigh during the season always has and probably always will. Josh Hamilton had a guy going around with him so he didn't get wasted and do a line of cocaine off a strippers tits, why can't we have a guy go around with Pablo and make sure he don't eat pizza, KFC, & Taco Bell all day everyday.

[mvp 78]

That's faint praise. He can't be any worse now can he?

 

It can always be worse. Pablo has a better chance of a bounce back season than Hanley imo.

[User Name]

I don't buy that. Hanley was wrecking s*** up until he screwed up his shoulder. If healthy, Hanley should be far and away the more productive hitter.

[mvp 78]

I'd make a sig bet, but you're probably already stuck with jacko sigs for the next few years.

[a700hitter]

Cardinals To Sign Mike Leake --Leake’s deal is for five years and worth $80MM, per Ken Rosenthal of FOX

 

Further evidence of the folly of the 4 year Extension of Porcello for $82.5 million.

[Palodios]

Cardinals To Sign Mike Leake --Leake’s deal is for five years and worth $80MM, per Ken Rosenthal of FOX

 

Further evidence of the folly of the 4 year Extension of Porcello for $82.5 million.

 

How is that evidence of folly? They're similar pitchers, and received similar contracts.

 

St Louis is a great fit for Leake. It is somewhat close to his home in Arizona. The Cardinals are arguably the best run organization in baseball, they have a NL pitcher park. Low income tax. Better weather.

 

It also takes more money to sign a player to a 60 win team than it does to sign a player to a 100 win team.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Palodios

[a700hitter]

How is that evidence of folly? They're similar pitchers, and received similar contracts.

 

St Louis is a great fit for Leake. It is somewhat close to his home in Arizona. The Cardinals are arguably the best run organization in baseball, they have a NL pitcher park. Low income tax. Better weather.

 

It also takes more money to sign a player to a 60 win team than it does to sign a player to a 100 win team.

Leake had a better year than Porcello. They are about the same age. On the open market, the Cards got an extra year for less total dollars than we will pay Porcello (under the rushed deal to wrap him up before he hit the open market). Leake gets $16 million/yr and Porcello gets $20.6 million/yr. Porcello would not have gotten as much as Leake on the open market.

 

Good weather doesn't add up to a 22% discount.

[Spudboy]

Oh Cool.

 

Now we can debate another dead horse subject.