2016 Red Sox Hot Stove Discussion Thread

[Kimmi]

I love the team and the players, but the GM did a terrible job and suffered the consequences. Good luck to him getting a GM job in the future. He didn't exactly cover himself in glory. It is very unusual for the Red Sox to fire its GM. Duke got fired as part of a regime change. Other than ownership changes, I can't remember when the Red Sox fired its GM. Criticism of the GM is not criticism of the team in my view.

 

Jerry Crasnick ‏@jcrasnick 5m5 minutes ago

 

The #Phillies are planning to decide on their GM hire by start of organizational meetings early next week, says a BB source.

 

A person familiar with #Phillies search disputed a report that #Royals assistant GM JJ Picollo is the frontrunner for job.

 

Hearing John Middleton's favored choice is Ben Cherington. But Cherington has indicated he doesn't want to dive back into GM job.

 

 

So, that is two GM jobs that Cherington could likely have had, Mariners and Phillies, if he were interested. Just sayin'.

[a700hitter]

So, that is two GM jobs that Cherington could likely have had, Mariners and Phillies, if he were interested. Just sayin'.

If he isn't pursuing one of the open GM jobs, he's a fool. just sayin.

[Spudboy]

If he isn't pursuing one of the open GM jobs, he's a fool. just sayin.

 

I agree. There are only a handful of these GM job available each year. I can understand that he may want some time off and that he may want to be selective.

 

BUT, he has to be careful to not disqualify himself from future consideration for these jobs. Strike while the coal is hot . Or whatever.

[a700hitter]

I agree. There are only a handful of these GM job available each year. I can understand that he may want some time off and that he may want to be selective.

 

BUT, he has to be careful to not disqualify himself from future consideration for these jobs. Strike while the coal is hot . Or whatever.

There are an unusually large number of GM jobs available this year. Once those positions are filled, those individuals will be in those jobs for several years. Next year, I would not expect there to be as much turnover at the GM level. He could be missing the boat.

[cp176]

It is also possible that he has realized that being the GM is just not a job for him. There isn't much worse during your working life than doing a job you just don't enjoy doing.

[Bellhorn04]

It is also possible that he has realized that being the GM is just not a job for him. There isn't much worse during your working life than doing a job you just don't enjoy doing.

 

Duquette was out of the game a long time and was still able to procure a pretty decent job on returning.

[a700hitter]

It is also possible that he has realized that being the GM is just not a job for him. There isn't much worse during your working life than doing a job you just don't enjoy doing.

Yep, especially if you are not good at it.

[a700hitter]

Duquette was out of the game a long time and was still able to procure a pretty decent job on returning.

I don't think a 10 year hiatus was his choice.

[SoxnCycles]

I agree. There are only a handful of these GM job available each year. I can understand that he may want some time off and that he may want to be selective.

 

BUT, he has to be careful to not disqualify himself from future consideration for these jobs. Strike while the coal is hot . Or whatever.

 

 

How would not jumping at the first job offered "disqualify" him from future positions?

The guy is 41. It's not like club owner are going to think the game has passed him by, if he takes a year or two off.

 

Way too many people try to equate life in MLB with their own jobs.

It's a poor comparison.

[jacksonianmarch]

Ben should take a year off. He was in Boston, a notoriously unforgiving town and basically was ridden out 2 years after being the architect of a title run. Most GM's would get a 5 yr pass. He is getting paid, he is still a big name and he will end up in someone's FO when and if he is ready. He may not receive a GM spot, but most GM's who go down in flames usually go into an org as an assistant GM and then find their way back to the top again. Ben, I think, would be a very good GM for a small market team.

[a700hitter]

Ben should take a year off. He was in Boston, a notoriously unforgiving town and basically was ridden out 2 years after being the architect of a title run. Most GM's would get a 5 yr pass. He is getting paid, he is still a big name and he will end up in someone's FO when and if he is ready. He may not receive a GM spot, but most GM's who go down in flames usually go into an org as an assistant GM and then find their way back to the top again. Ben, I think, would be a very good GM for a small market team.

I hope he lands a job somewhere. He seems like a guy with good character, and I will not have to worry about any team that he heads sucking up all the good pitching prospects.

[jacksonianmarch]

The problem with Ben was the message. He knew he had a good team after 2012. He brought in a manager who would hold the players accountable yet wouldn't be a nightly comment on sports radio. He brought in aging vets who had one more year to give. 2013 was a phenomenal year for him. The problem with his message was the fact that the Boston ownership (him included) went out and got cocky instead of being realistic. They should have taken 2013 and lived it up while either reinforcing the team for 2014 or rebuilding in 2014. They didn't do anything in the offseason after the WS title and that limbo extended to Lester. Lackey hated how the Lester negotiations went down and just like that, you've lost your 1 and your 2 from the title winning team and basically got crap for them. Peavy was ho hum and went out the door as well. I know there are some firesale teams out there, but has a world series winning team ever dealt off 60% of its rotation from its title winning season during the following season by the ASB? There were a lot of fans willing to look at 2015 as a bridge year. But when you go out and deal for Porcello and sign him like an ace and sign Panda and Hanley to big money deals, you basically send the message that you're back and you're ready to contend. Except, they weren't ready. The message was that the team will hit enough and the pitching will be surprisingly good. Well, the pitching was expectedly bad and the offense didn't turn it on until July. This was the issue. Had Ben or the FO basically come out and said, like Theo did in Chicago, that 2014 was a wake up call and we need to re-load, then he'd still have a job. Instead, they shot their load on garbage, sold the fans a bill of goods and ended up with a pissed off fan base. The message, the roster construction/destruction, and the win loss record are the reason for his firing. Had he not tried to win the headlines last off season and just stayed the course, he'd still have a job

[sk7326]

If he isn't pursuing one of the open GM jobs, he's a fool. just sayin.

 

Seattle is a very shaky job. And besides a lot of these jobs involves interviewing owners - what are their priorities and what are they looking for? Gigs differ greatly. Philadelphia would have been a good fit - Cherington and McPhail would have made a lot of sense together.

[sk7326]

There are an unusually large number of GM jobs available this year. Once those positions are filled, those individuals will be in those jobs for several years. Next year, I would not expect there to be as much turnover at the GM level. He could be missing the boat.

 

There are openings every year. There will be an opening in Minnesota coming up for instance, and perhaps even Toronto (although that sure seems less likely). Seriously, you think that the Seattle and Anaheim positions are obvious plums, the same as Boston's in terms of plusses?

[a700hitter]

There are openings every year. There will be an opening in Minnesota coming up for instance, and perhaps even Toronto (although that sure seems less likely). Seriously, you think that the Seattle and Anaheim positions are obvious plums, the same as Boston's in terms of plusses?

No, but Boston is one of the top gigs. He is not going to get one of those again. The turnover was unusually large this year. There likely will be less openings next year.

[sk7326]

No, but Boston is one of the top gigs. He is not going to get one of those again. The turnover was unusually large this year. There likely will be less openings next year.

 

There will be fewer - and likely better openings than Seattle. (which has that combination of poor farm and ownership who does not want to tear down)

[reYoukilis]

The problem with Ben was the message. He knew he had a good team after 2012. He brought in a manager who would hold the players accountable yet wouldn't be a nightly comment on sports radio. He brought in aging vets who had one more year to give. 2013 was a phenomenal year for him. The problem with his message was the fact that the Boston ownership (him included) went out and got cocky instead of being realistic. They should have taken 2013 and lived it up while either reinforcing the team for 2014 or rebuilding in 2014. They didn't do anything in the offseason after the WS title and that limbo extended to Lester. Lackey hated how the Lester negotiations went down and just like that, you've lost your 1 and your 2 from the title winning team and basically got crap for them. Peavy was ho hum and went out the door as well. I know there are some firesale teams out there, but has a world series winning team ever dealt off 60% of its rotation from its title winning season during the following season by the ASB? There were a lot of fans willing to look at 2015 as a bridge year. But when you go out and deal for Porcello and sign him like an ace and sign Panda and Hanley to big money deals, you basically send the message that you're back and you're ready to contend. Except, they weren't ready. The message was that the team will hit enough and the pitching will be surprisingly good. Well, the pitching was expectedly bad and the offense didn't turn it on until July. This was the issue. Had Ben or the FO basically come out and said, like Theo did in Chicago, that 2014 was a wake up call and we need to re-load, then he'd still have a job. Instead, they shot their load on garbage, sold the fans a bill of goods and ended up with a pissed off fan base. The message, the roster construction/destruction, and the win loss record are the reason for his firing. Had he not tried to win the headlines last off season and just stayed the course, he'd still have a job

After 2014 the only thing I think they messed up with is not resigning Lester, everything else I don't blame them for not doing much. When you win a WS you have to try and see if you can do it again. If not then you're back where you started rebuilding through the farm and plugging holes with vets. You face the facts that winning might not happen right away. If we would have done that last off season wed still be in last place but our prospects would still look promising and we would have lot of flexibility and leverage going forward.

[Kimmi]

If he isn't pursuing one of the open GM jobs, he's a fool. just sayin.

 

There could be any number of reasons why he isn't pursuing a GM job, none of which mean he's a fool.

[Kimmi]

It is also possible that he has realized that being the GM is just not a job for him. There isn't much worse during your working life than doing a job you just don't enjoy doing.

 

Or it could be that he just wants to take some time to spend with his family, while the opportunity has presented itself. Maybe he just needs a break. Maybe he has another job lined up (in baseball or not) that we don't know about. The idea that he is a fool for not immediately jumping into another GM job has no merit.

[cp176]

Or it could be that he just wants to take some time to spend with his family, while the opportunity has presented itself. Maybe he just needs a break. Maybe he has another job lined up (in baseball or not) that we don't know about. The idea that he is a fool for not immediately jumping into another GM job has no merit.

 

He really might not want to be a GM. It is also possible that even though he is young, he knows what his limitations are. He has a lot to offer with respect to the game, maybe not as a general manager. Nothing wrong with that. It is kind of like someone who thinks that they want to be a principal and then finds out that education is really about being in the classroom and working directly with the kids. Being General Manager sounds great - maybe it is not so much.

[Kimmi]

He really might not want to be a GM. It is also possible that even though he is young, he knows what his limitations are. He has a lot to offer with respect to the game, maybe not as a general manager. Nothing wrong with that. It is kind of like someone who thinks that they want to be a principal and then finds out that education is really about being in the classroom and working directly with the kids. Being General Manager sounds great - maybe it is not so much.

 

I don't disagree with any of that. I am just disagreeing with the notion that he is a fool for not immediately jumping into another GM job.

[a700hitter]

There could be any number of reasons why he isn't pursuing a GM job, none of which mean he's a fool.

 

Just my opinion.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

Ben should take a year off. He was in Boston, a notoriously unforgiving town and basically was ridden out 2 years after being the architect of a title run. Most GM's would get a 5 yr pass. He is getting paid, he is still a big name and he will end up in someone's FO when and if he is ready. He may not receive a GM spot, but most GM's who go down in flames usually go into an org as an assistant GM and then find their way back to the top again. Ben, I think, would be a very good GM for a small market team.

 

Still don't understand posters claiming Ben was the architect of that last title team when virtually all the key players were in place when he took charge. He made some key additions but Lester was the horse, Ortiz had a slow pitch softball average in the WS, Pedroia, Elsbury etc were already there.

[mvp 78]

They don't win that year without Koji, Napoli, Ross and Victorino. Prob don't even make playoffs. Napoli saved their butts in April while Ortiz was injured. Koji was the second best player on that team. Victorino played the best RF defense since Dewey and had a bunch of clutch hits in the postseason. Ross had to play in WS over Salty due to Salty throwing the ball around the infield like it was a hot potato.

[Bellhorn04]

Still don't understand posters claiming Ben was the architect of that last title team when virtually all the key players were in place when he took charge. He made some key additions but Lester was the horse' date=' Ortiz had a slow pitch softball average in the WS, Pedroia, Elsbury etc were already there.[/quote']

 

Ben placed some bets in the 2012-2013 offseason and virtually nailed them all.

 

He placed some bets in the 2014-2015 offseason and virtually lost them all.

[jacksonianmarch]

The sox had their core. Just like they did in 2004 with Theo. It was the additions to the core that put them over the top. His managerial selection for that team was top notch. Farrell may not be what you want now, but he was exactly what was needed after Valentine's garbage in 2012

[jacksonianmarch]

After 2014 the only thing I think they messed up with is not resigning Lester, everything else I don't blame them for not doing much. When you win a WS you have to try and see if you can do it again. If not then you're back where you started rebuilding through the farm and plugging holes with vets. You face the facts that winning might not happen right away. If we would have done that last off season wed still be in last place but our prospects would still look promising and we would have lot of flexibility and leverage going forward.

 

I disagree entirely. Lester's trade was reasonable when you consider what Cespedes has turned into. But dealing Cespedes for Porcello was a tough move in retrospect. The high dollar contract for a guy who hadn't thrown a pitch in a sox jersey was dumb. Dealing Lackey for a pile of crap was dumb. Going out and signing a chronically injured malcontent to change positions and pay him $90 mil was dumb. I was all over the Panda move. The guy has declined since getting into the league and has inflated physically as well. 5 years was as stupid as could be.

[reYoukilis]

I disagree entirely. Lester's trade was reasonable when you consider what Cespedes has turned into. But dealing Cespedes for Porcello was a tough move in retrospect. The high dollar contract for a guy who hadn't thrown a pitch in a sox jersey was dumb. Dealing Lackey for a pile of crap was dumb. Going out and signing a chronically injured malcontent to change positions and pay him $90 mil was dumb. I was all over the Panda move. The guy has declined since getting into the league and has inflated physically as well. 5 years was as stupid as could be.

Yes Cespedes is doing well but Lester is still good too, won multiple rings WITH US, doesn't get hurt, is still young enough and is a pitcher. Lester is harder to find than a Cespedes IMO. Is he a Price or Greinki? No but unlike them he knows how to win in the postseason. Also the Lackey move was made because how poorly handled the Lester situation was. Stats and dollars are all good but chemistry and what already worked is important too.

 

So in retrospect its really Porcello vs Lester because eventually we had to replace Lester. We paid heavily for an unknown vs paying heavily for a known. That's mind boggling.

 

I also didn't like the Panda, Hanley moves from day one.

[Meh]

Just out of curiosity, would you guys deal Betts or Bogearts for Matt Harvey? Not sure if it was talked about but I don't feel like going throught 58 pages haha

[dupree]

Just out of curiosity, would you guys deal Betts or Bogearts for Matt Harvey? Not sure if it was talked about but I don't feel like going throught 58 pages haha

Yes this horse has been beaten to death.

 

Conclusion:

Some would some wouldn't... many arguments no true winner

 

What's gonna happen:

DD is gonna do whatever he wants to help this team to get the must needed ace. People will praise some people will bitch