Lucchino out

[jacksonianmarch]

Lucchino has been relieved of his post. His position will be filled internally by Sam Kennedy

[mvp 78]

Report is his contract was up at year end and they were worried about losing Sam Kennedy. Not sure it's indicative of larger changes to come (i.e. Werner stepping back). Edited August 2, 2015 by mvp 78

[Elktonnick]

In a strange way I believe this buys both Cherrington and Farrell more time to straighten out the ball club. Having read the Herald article it isn't clear to me whether Lucchino was relieved or resigned. It may be a distinction without difference, however. There will be claims that Lucchino's departure was planned due health but regardless he seems the one who is to take the fall for the disaster which is the current team. Because of this I believe it will placate some( not me) who are calling for Cherrington to go as well.

[Thunder]

Well, I don't know what to say just yet.

[mvp 78]

@PeteAbe: Globe reported before spring training that Lucchino was being eased out. #RedSox denied it at time. But now Sam Kennedy to move up.

 

What dis SoxFanForsyth know and when did he know it?!?

[mvp 78]

@OverTheMonster: One wonders if the end of Lucchino represents the loss of an obstacle to success, or of a regular scapegoat for failure.

 

Great point.

[Elktonnick]

@OverTheMonster: One wonders if the end of Lucchino represents the loss of an obstacle to success, or of a regular scapegoat for failure.

 

Great point.

 

No excuses for Ben now.

[sk7326]

They'll miss him - but not surprised.

[Kimmi]

It will be interesting to see what, if any, big changes will be coming.

 

From what I've read, it does not seem like Ben is going anywhere. It seems like he is going to be given the chance to clean up this mess, but he will be on notice.

 

I may come to regret it, but I am personally glad to see that Lucchino is stepping down, though it is my understanding that he will still have some role with the franchise.

[SoxHop]

That's a huge cut at the top right away..............

 

Henry might be cutting the fat.................

[Elktonnick]

I recommend Dan Shaughnessy's column. Lucchino was a master at working the political landscape. Neither Henry nor Werner have those skills. I think the club will suffer in the short run but as Charles DeGaulle said "The cemetery is full of indispensable men"

[Kimmi]

I recommend Dan Shaughnessy's column. Lucchino was a master at working the political landscape. Neither Henry nor Werner have those skills. I think the club will suffer in the short run but as Charles DeGaulle said "The cemetery is full of indispensable men"

 

Larry is a good businessman. He is good at a lot of things. My problem with him has always been that his top priority is making a profit, which is fine, but that kind of thinking does not belong in baseball ops. I think he too often exerted his influence in baseball ops decisions for the wrong reasons.

 

I read this morning that Kennedy says he plans to more or less stay out of the baseball ops side of things and let the baseball ops team take care of that. We shall see.

[jacksonianmarch]

Lucchino made the owners a TON of money. He also meddled with baseball ops so you could bring in marketable players rather than the best players. He was behind the 2011 signing debacle and if it wasn't for LA willing to eat the sins of the past, you'd be stuck with awful contracts.... Oh wait! He probably also meddled with the whole Panda and Hanley signing as well. You needed pizzazz on the field. All you got was piss. Larry was good for the owners until he torched the product on the field. I think sox fans will be happier with the product after he's gone

[sk7326]

Lucchino made the owners a TON of money. He also meddled with baseball ops so you could bring in marketable players rather than the best players. He was behind the 2011 signing debacle and if it wasn't for LA willing to eat the sins of the past, you'd be stuck with awful contracts.... Oh wait! He probably also meddled with the whole Panda and Hanley signing as well. You needed pizzazz on the field. All you got was piss. Larry was good for the owners until he torched the product on the field. I think sox fans will be happier with the product after he's gone

 

Maybe, maybe not. Like any other person who has been in the game for a very long time, Lucchino had plusses and minuses. He was behind some of the dicier contracts (and to be honest the 2011 debacle really was "Carl Crawford - end of list") and cared more about making his owners a lot of money than the baseball operation specifically. At the same time, he had a terrific eye for executive talent - the Red Sox did not skimp at all on the baseball operation (like say some team in a different borough of New York than the Yankees) and ultimately brought in pieces that led the team to a historically great era. All of it is true. If his ouster will make a better product than what we've seen the last 2 years - lovely. If his ouster will make a better product than what we've seen the last 14 - not so much.

[sk7326]

Larry is a good businessman. He is good at a lot of things. My problem with him has always been that his top priority is making a profit, which is fine, but that kind of thinking does not belong in baseball ops. I think he too often exerted his influence in baseball ops decisions for the wrong reasons.

 

I read this morning that Kennedy says he plans to more or less stay out of the baseball ops side of things and let the baseball ops team take care of that. We shall see.

 

Yes and no - for the most part winning is the best mousetrap for the $$. At the same time (as someone who lived in Atlanta in 2003-4 I can attest to this), winning a lot also creates drag - especially if the titles don't come with it (obviously moreso in the Braves case). The immediate success trend seems to be better for $$ than success alone.

 

But you are right about the larger point. The Red Sox need a cohesive approach to the baseball operation. Without knowledge of the inside baseball - I think Cherington's powers in that area have not been consistent. That said, the team has a high caliber infrastructure - and if they did not overreact to every WEEI phone call or every Shaugnessy column things would probably be much more sound. Certainly the hyper-reactionary movements of the front office relative to immediate fan/media pressure has been much worse since 2012 than before then - caring about perception instead of what actually matters. This has been particularly striking in how the org has handled playing young guys - an unfortunate departure from what they did in the mid 2000s.

[mvp 78]

He sure built purrty baseball stadiums!

 

I just want one person in charge. Have JH decide the budget, but let a GM be able to spend it how he/she wants and manage all rosterdecisions. It seems obvious that there are either too many cooks or Ben doesn't have a clear methodology.

[Elktonnick]

He sure built purrty baseball stadiums!

 

I just want one person in charge. Have JH decide the budget, but let a GM be able to spend it how he/she wants and manage all rosterdecisions. It seems obvious that there are either too many cooks or Ben doesn't have a clear methodology.

 

Actually both could true, too many cooks and no clear methodology.

[sk7326]

[/b]

 

Actually both could true, too many cooks and no clear methodology.

 

It is tempting, although Cherington has been in the gig much too long for the latter to seem likely ... that side of the house has never really been a clown show since the new ownership took over. Personnel has been pretty first rate (evidence includes how many other teams have poached)

[InfernoOrangeSS]

If nothing else, our Red Sox did win 3 wonderful championships under his tenure. I give him that.

[Elktonnick]

If nothing else, our Red Sox did win 3 wonderful championships under his tenure. I give him that.

 

While that is his best on the field accomplishment, his bigger accomplishments were saving the franchise and Fenway Park. Those of us who remember the nineties know the terrible shape both the franchise and the park were in. The Hayward Sullivan Buddy LaRue and Jean Yawkey years were the lowest point. The owners wanted a new ball park because Fenway Park was a dump and the city and state weren't interested in building it. I know it is hard to believe now but there was a real possibility that the team would leave down town Boston.

 

The new owners and Larry Lucchino saw a way to keep the team in the downtown and save Fenway Park. Because of Lucchino's expertise and political skills he was the ideal person to make that happen. Remembering Massachusetts politics from my time in state government years ago, it takes a unique individual to work the corridors of city hall and Beacon Hill to get things done and Lucchino did it.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Elktonnick

[reYoukilis]

I read an article talking about how Tom Werner, more than Lucchino may be the one more interested in getting splashy players than I at first thought. And now Werner may have more power. So I retract anything negative I said.

[SoxnCycles]

I read an article talking about how Tom Werner, more than Lucchino may be the one more interested in getting splashy players than I at first thought. And now Werner may have more power. So I retract anything negative I said.

 

Oh, that's just great!

[mvp 78]

24 hour Sox Appeal marathons!!!!

[sk7326]

While that is his best on the field accomplishment, his bigger accomplishments were saving the franchise and Fenway Park. Those of us who remember the nineties know the terrible shape both the franchise and the park were in. The Hayward Sullivan Buddy LaRue and Jean Yawkey years were the lowest point. The owners wanted a new ball park because Fenway Park was a dump and the city and state weren't interested in building it. I know it is hard to believe now but there was a real possibility that the team would leave down town Boston.

 

The new owners and Larry Lucchino saw a way to keep the team in the downtown and save Fenway Park. Because of Lucchino's expertise and political skills he was the ideal person to make that happen. Remembering Massachusetts politics from my time in state government years ago, it takes a unique individual to work the corridors of city hall and Beacon Hill to get things done and Lucchino did it.

 

Also the front office talent and whatnot. A lot of guys coming through Boston got gigs elsewhere in baseball. The Sox and Cards have been go-to franchises for teams with job openings and that reflects well, and does bode well for the Sox future too.

[sk7326]

I read an article talking about how Tom Werner, more than Lucchino may be the one more interested in getting splashy players than I at first thought. And now Werner may have more power. So I retract anything negative I said.

 

I had a hunch. We'll know how much power Werner has if there is a Bill Cosby day at Fenway next season.

[a700hitter]

Also the front office talent and whatnot. A lot of guys coming through Boston got gigs elsewhere in baseball. The Sox and Cards have been go-to franchises for teams with job openings and that reflects well, and does bode well for the Sox future too.

It is a very close community. These guys usually land on their feet in some capacity at another organization.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I read an article talking about how Tom Werner, more than Lucchino may be the one more interested in getting splashy players than I at first thought. And now Werner may have more power. So I retract anything negative I said.

Burn it. Burn it all.

[jacksonianmarch]

In the offseason last year, we heard how Larry was being eased out and that he didn't have a lot of influence on baseball ops. Or at least that's how it was sold to the masses. Then you saw literally no move work in the offseason. So what is it? Is it Larry? Is it Ben? Is it Tom? Is it all 3 or some combination? Who knows, but your house at the top needs renovation. If I were JH, I'd fire Ben, have Werner work on non baseball ops rather than influencing day to day baseball decisions and bring in Dombrowski as the next president. Have him decide the next GM and manager and allow him to work. He was not afraid to take the Tigers through a few dead years to build and when the ashes settled, he had a team that was in the playoffs for the better part of a decade. That's what you need

[a700hitter]

In the offseason last year, we heard how Larry was being eased out and that he didn't have a lot of influence on baseball ops. Or at least that's how it was sold to the masses. Then you saw literally no move work in the offseason. So what is it? Is it Larry? Is it Ben? Is it Tom? Is it all 3 or some combination? Who knows, but your house at the top needs renovation. If I were JH, I'd fire Ben, have Werner work on non baseball ops rather than influencing day to day baseball decisions and bring in Dombrowski as the next president. Have him decide the next GM and manager and allow him to work. He was not afraid to take the Tigers through a few dead years to build and when the ashes settled, he had a team that was in the playoffs for the better part of a decade. That's what you need

Dan has a good track record. Compared to him Ben is an understudy. Ben is clearly and completely incompetent. I keep hearing about our highly rated farm system, but did Ben bring in any of those guys. Also, I still think that there is a lack of depth of good arms in the system. This organization is just terrible at finding and developing pitchers.

[sk7326]

Dan has a good track record. Compared to him Ben is an understudy. Ben is clearly and completely incompetent. I keep hearing about our highly rated farm system, but did Ben bring in any of those guys. Also, I still think that there is a lack of depth of good arms in the system. This organization is just terrible at finding and developing pitchers.

 

There is some nature vs nurture here. Clearly the Cardinals and Marlins have some sort of fairy dust competitive advantage in the pitching area which is worth looking at. Otherwise it's mostly about being bad enough to draft them.