Red Sox Bullpen

[SeanJohn93]

Happy Easter everyone

[mvp 78]

Ruin? What? Most of the guys you see headlining starting rotations right now got their start by acclimating in the big leagues from the BP. It's a philosophy that has paid huge dividends to teams like Tampa and the Chicago White Sox.

 

Aside from Chris Sale, most of the other aces in MLB had relatively little experience in the bullpen (Hamels, Kershaw, Price, Lester, Bumgarner and Verlander have less than 10 relief appearances combined). Unless you're using a different definition of "headlining?"

[User Name]

Aside from Chris Sale, most of the other aces in MLB had relatively little experience in the bullpen (Hamels, Kershaw, Price, Lester, Bumgarner and Verlander have less than 10 relief appearances combined). Unless you're using a different definition of "headlining?"

 

Remember Johan Santana? Phil Hughes? Matt Moore? (now injured), Price didn't have that much BP time, but he pitched in the BP for Tampa's 2008 playoff drive, Adam Wainwright, Fausto Carmona (before he became Roberto Hernandez and sucked) along with, of course, Sale and Max Scherzer, who was also used in relief for about half his rookie appearances.

 

Even if you don't use the "rotation headliner" tag, a bunch of succesful starting pitchers pitched out of the BP before moving to the rotation with no ill effects, which was the point of the post.

[Kimmi]

Happy Easter everyone

 

 

Happy Easter Sean. And Happy Easter to all!

[Kimmi]

Remember Johan Santana? Phil Hughes? Matt Moore? (now injured), Price didn't have that much BP time, but he pitched in the BP for Tampa's 2008 playoff drive, Adam Wainwright, Fausto Carmona (before he became Roberto Hernandez and sucked) along with, of course, Sale and Max Scherzer, who was also used in relief for about half his rookie appearances.

 

Even if you don't use the "rotation headliner" tag, a bunch of succesful starting pitchers pitched out of the BP before moving to the rotation with no ill effects, which was the point of the post.

 

 

I don't think that moving a starter to the pen or vice versa messes pitchers up or ruins them, if it is done correctly. Joba's attempted conversion to a SP was handled incorrectly, IMO. Bard's was not. Bard was having some issues at the end of the previous season before the Sox attempted to convert him to a SP.

 

I think Barnes will be fine if he is used as a reliever, and he may even be more effective in that role. That said, I would like to see the Sox keep him stretched out as a starter for the time being because, as of now, I think that's where our greatest need will be.

[cp176]

I don't think that moving a starter to the pen or vice versa messes pitchers up or ruins them, if it is done correctly. Joba's attempted conversion to a SP was handled incorrectly, IMO. Bard's was not. Bard was having some issues at the end of the previous season before the Sox attempted to convert him to a SP.

 

I think Barnes will be fine if he is used as a reliever, and he may even be more effective in that role. That said, I would like to see the Sox keep him stretched out as a starter for the time being because, as of now, I think that's where our greatest need will be.

 

 

I'll apologize for not looking this up first. Just a guess on my part that the majority of pitchers started off a starters. I think that that is safe to say. Many get moved to a relief role not necessarily based on team needs but based on where they are going to most successful. At some point in time maybe Barnes will be moved to the bullpen but hopefully only after there is an upgrade with respect to our 5 starters or the time comes when he appears ineffective as a starter. Moving him now would make no sense to him or the team's future. Eventually it might b right where he belongs.

[sk7326]

The idea that starters can be broken in via the bullpen has been around since Earl Weaver. In a case like Barnes, to me it is less about what is good for him than how can he be maximized. If Barnes has 3 pitches already and is not going to be learning a lot at AAA then he can make a big league contribution. If there is not an opening to start now, the bullpen makes sense - especially with the severe lack of multi-inning guys in the league generally.

 

An innovative idea that I think would make sense these days would be to put a guy like Barnes in your bullpen for semi-planned 40-50 pitch outings. Doing that you could get 100 innings of good relief pitching maybe.

[sk7326]

I'll apologize for not looking this up first. Just a guess on my part that the majority of pitchers started off a starters. I think that that is safe to say. Many get moved to a relief role not necessarily based on team needs but based on where they are going to most successful. At some point in time maybe Barnes will be moved to the bullpen but hopefully only after there is an upgrade with respect to our 5 starters or the time comes when he appears ineffective as a starter. Moving him now would make no sense to him or the team's future. Eventually it might b right where he belongs.

 

I don't even think you have to look it up much. As a general rule, every pitcher is at least tried as a starter. There are the odd Craig Hansens or Josh Fields who are drafted to close right away, but those have not turned out well. I think it's just common sense - you try them as starter, but once you conclude the guy doesn't have a third pitch (for instance), then they move to the reliever pile.

[cp176]

I'll apologize for not looking this up first. Just a guess on my part that the majority of pitchers started off a starters. I think that that is safe to say. Many get moved to a relief role not necessarily based on team needs but based on where they are going to most successful. At some point in time maybe Barnes will be moved to the bullpen but hopefully only after there is an upgrade with respect to our 5 starters or the time comes when he appears ineffective as a starter. Moving him now would make no sense to him or the team's future. Eventually it might b right where he belongs.

 

I could not find where anyone said that it would ruin him to move him to a relief role. I don't think that it would ruin him but I think that they need to determine who are likely to be their next couple of starters up before making a decision about him. If he looks like he has the potential to start early, it would seem odd that they would decide to use him in relief.

[cp176]

I don't even think you have to look it up much. As a general rule, every pitcher is at least tried as a starter. There are the odd Craig Hansens or Josh Fields who are drafted to close right away, but those have not turned out well. I think it's just common sense - you try them as starter, but once you conclude the guy doesn't have a third pitch (for instance), then they move to the reliever pile.

 

 

This I agree with. I guess my point would be that they don't really know yet what they have in Barnes and they are obviously concerned about their starting pitching. They know more than we do but a move to the pen for him now would be puzzling. Just another guess on my part but that's probably one of the reasons he was sent down.

[Kimmi]

I'll apologize for not looking this up first. Just a guess on my part that the majority of pitchers started off a starters. I think that that is safe to say. Many get moved to a relief role not necessarily based on team needs but based on where they are going to most successful. At some point in time maybe Barnes will be moved to the bullpen but hopefully only after there is an upgrade with respect to our 5 starters or the time comes when he appears ineffective as a starter. Moving him now would make no sense to him or the team's future. Eventually it might b right where he belongs.

 

I agree with this. I don't see any need to put Barnes in the pen right now. As it is, when Koji and Kelly return, two relievers are going to have to be sent down. Keep Barnes stretched out for now in case we need him as a starter.

[Spudboy]

I think that we all would like to see Barnes as a starter. Most likely because we are all afraid, at least to some extent, about the current rotation. And we certainly would like to see a Sox farm hand step up and be a productive starter.

 

But I see no reason to fear bringing him up to throw from the pen. He will likely be needed there as well. Almost any big league experience will help him to continue to develop and he can always be stretched out later if or when he is needed as a starter. Until then he could be either short relief or long as in 3-4 innings.

 

I assume that he knows how to pitch from the stretch? I wonder how much difference there is in stuff from set to stretch?