2015 Prospect Mega Thread

[jacksonianmarch]

I think the Moncada SR coming out of Cuba was that he likely profiled as a CFer. Had the range for middle infield, but there were questions about the glove.

[sk7326]

I think the Moncada SR coming out of Cuba was that he likely profiled as a CFer. Had the range for middle infield, but there were questions about the glove.

 

And that he was already enormous for a 19 year old ... just physical growth might have voted him off the island

[sk7326]

it's all good - you can hit me with the thread jacking stuff if you like. I just couldn't help it. I agree with you on much of this. I would say that in some cases a player's first exposure to the teaching of good defensive technique may be at the professional level. Some not a lot. Pretty sad! Not the way it is where I come from. On my high school and college teams, the instruction was quite good. I have always been a believer in drafting your best athletes. Normally it is foolish not to. I think implying that I called the Red Sox overuse of repositioning players a fetish is a little harsh though.

 

The instruction I think in high school and college is okay, but you are also at levels where often guys can get away with just being better athletically. In the pros the craft I suspect becomes more important. Anyway, I was being silly also.

[cp176]

The instruction I think in high school and college is okay, but you are also at levels where often guys can get away with just being better athletically. In the pros the craft I suspect becomes more important. Anyway, I was being silly also.

 

I think you are right. You are a good one. I like the banter. I am just your typical disturbed fan right now.

[cp176]

Maybe Moncada - there is no member of the current Red Sox organization that should be considered safe from a possible trade. the only question would be who is doing the trading. Hate to see something wasted. Maybe Moncada

[sk7326]

Maybe Moncada - there is no member of the current Red Sox organization that should be considered safe from a possible trade. the only question would be who is doing the trading. Hate to see something wasted. Maybe Moncada

 

I think everybody has a price. With dudes like Devers on Moncada, the question becomes - do you care if a guy blows up in 3 years if you can be much better next year? That is a reasonable question. Even more reasonable question for an Anderson Espinoza.

[Spudboy]

Depends on what they were. Errors by themselves don't say a lot about fielding.

 

Errors are errors.

[User Name]

Have you seen the scoring on some of these "errors"? I have to heartily disagree here.

[cp176]

Errors are errors.

 

Moncada has a lot going for him for sure - youth - great speed - instincts - a little pop. He might be on the untradeable list with E-Rod and Bogaerts. Fielding wise not so much - 19 errors in 63 games at second base means work needs to be done no matter who does the scoring.

[Kimmi]

Have you seen the scoring on some of these "errors"? I have to heartily disagree here.

 

I would have to heartily disagree as well. Not all "errors" are created equally. As SK said, errors by themselves don't say much about fielding.

[Bellhorn04]

I would have to heartily disagree as well. Not all "errors" are created equally. As SK said, errors by themselves don't say much about fielding.

 

Not all errors are created equally, I agree 100%.

 

Of course there are errors that fall in the no-doubt category.

[Kimmi]

Not all errors are created equally, I agree 100%.

 

Of course there are errors that fall in the no-doubt category.

 

Yes, there are. Not having watched Moncada, I can't really comment on the validity of those errors (the exact reason why we need advanced stats!). I think what is even more deceiving than the player with a lot of errors is the player with a relatively small number of errors because he just doesn't get to many balls.

 

Fielding percentage - phhht!

[a700hitter]

We also don't know if he butchered other balls that were scored as hits. I think it is safe to say that he needs to work on his defense.

[cp176]

No one has even come close to suggesting that all errors are created equally. Most of us actually know from experience all about the guys who get to more balls than the others. Kimmi - come on - the player who doesn't get to many balls is no player who gets to the next level unless he just tears the cover off of it and doesn't play a particularly taxing position. 19 errors i n 63 games at second base tells us that he needs work on his fielding, throwing, or whatever.

[cp176]

We also don't know if he butchered other balls that were scored as hits. I think it is safe to say that he needs to work on his defense.

 

 

When did people start complicating the game more than it already is? 19 errors at second base means the lad has work to do if he is going to be an infielder. People can spin it any way they want to. If they don't like fielding % as a stat,that is fine. Garciaparra got to a pant load more balls than many other shortstops but he screwed up the routine play way too often. Moncada needs work on his fielding - maybe throwing - I don't, know but anybody trying to argue that one just likes to argue.

[Kimmi]

No one has even come close to suggesting that all errors are created equally. Most of us actually know from experience all about the guys who get to more balls than the others. Kimmi - come on - the player who doesn't get to many balls is no player who gets to the next level unless he just tears the cover off of it and doesn't play a particularly taxing position. 19 errors i n 63 games at second base tells us that he needs work on his fielding, throwing, or whatever.

 

I was just responding to Spud's comment that errors are errors.

 

There are some virtual statues (Jeter) out there that people think are good defenders because they commit so few errors. It's likely that Moncada does have to work on defense, but giving me his number of errors tells me virtually nothing.

[cp176]

really - ok - It does tell you that he likely needs to work on his defense though?

[sk7326]

Errors are errors.

 

Errors are opinions too - which makes it tricky

[sk7326]

really - ok - It does tell you that he likely needs to work on his defense though?

 

Yes. Or at least it requires some detective work. If it's a function of chances, then the level of crisis is much less.

[Bellhorn04]

Errors are opinions too - which makes it tricky

 

True of course. But don't you think that a high % of errors are no-doubters - maybe 20% at most fall into the subjective category?

[Kimmi]

When did people start complicating the game more than it already is? 19 errors at second base means the lad has work to do if he is going to be an infielder. People can spin it any way they want to. If they don't like fielding % as a stat,that is fine. Garciaparra got to a pant load more balls than many other shortstops but he screwed up the routine play way too often. Moncada needs work on his fielding - maybe throwing - I don't, know but anybody trying to argue that one just likes to argue.

 

It's not complicating the game. It's enhancing the game by getting a better understanding of what is really taking place on the field.

[Kimmi]

really - ok - It does tell you that he likely needs to work on his defense though?

 

Yes, it does tell me that he most likely needs to work on his defense. However, his defense might not be nearly as bad as the 19 errors in 63 games suggests.

 

Edit: I really am not trying to argue whether Moncada needs to work on his defense or not. I have not see him play at all, and I have nothing to go by other than what I've read here. My argument is against the use of the stat "error" as a good measure of a player's defense.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Kimmi

[Kimmi]

Errors are opinions too - which makes it tricky

 

Not only that, but errors are also to some extent a function of the other players on the team. Who an infielder has as a double play partner can make a difference. Who an infielder has as their first baseman can make a difference. How many "errors" does a good first baseman save the rest of his infield?

 

This wouldn't apply as much to a 2nd baseman, but let's say that 2 different shortstops both make 10 low throws in the dirt to first base. One first baseman picks 8 of those throws, while another first baseman picks 3 of them. There's a difference of 5 errors for two shortstops who have virtually done the same thing.

[cp176]

Yes, it does tell me that he most likely needs to work on his defense. However, his defense might not be nearly as bad as the 19 errors in 63 games suggests.

 

I agree (how about that) . When I originally posted that, it was only to point out what could be a weakness in a potential very good players wide array of tools. It was not mentioned to make anybody overreact and think that he can't get it done defensively. We can all think what we wish, but to many that number of errors in that many games would be cause to think that he needs a little work before moving on if they think he is going to be playing second base in the future. Personally, I think that he is going to be a very good player.

[Kimmi]

True of course. But don't you think that a high % of errors are no-doubters - maybe 20% at most fall into the subjective category?

 

I really don't know what the percentage is, but my impression is that the subjective calls are higher than 20%.

[cp176]

It's not complicating the game. It's enhancing the game by getting a better understanding of what is really taking place on the field.

 

 

It depends on who you ask and who you are talking to.

[Kimmi]

I agree (how about that) . When I originally posted that, it was only to point out what could be a weakness in a potential very good players wide array of tools. It was not mentioned to make anybody overreact and think that he can't get it done defensively. We can all think what we wish, but to many that number of errors in that many games would be cause to think that he needs a little work before moving on if they think he is going to be playing second base in the future. Personally, I think that he is going to be a very good player.

 

I don't know if you saw the edit that I added to the post that you are responding to, but I'm really not arguing the fact that Moncada might need work on his defense. After all, he's what, all of 19? He's still likely at least another year away from sniffing the bigs.

[Kimmi]

It depends on who you ask and who you are talking to.

 

Well, you know that I strongly disagree with that opinion, but I'll leave it at that.

[Bellhorn04]

I really don't know what the percentage is, but my impression is that the subjective calls are higher than 20%.

 

That could be, and it may also depend on which position is involved. It seems to me that most errors committed by the left side of the infield are either obvious boots or bad throws.

 

Also it seems that where there is doubt, such as on a bad hop or an extremely hard hit ball, scorers will tend strongly toward calling those hits.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Bellhorn04

[Kimmi]

That could be, and it may also depend on which position is involved. It seems to me that most errors committed by the left side of the infield are either obvious boots or bad throws.

 

Also it seems that where there is doubt, such as on a bad hop or an extremely hard hit ball, scorers will tend strongly toward calling those hits.

 

I don't disagree. Then there is also the judgment call on whether the batter would have been safe anyway if the defender did not have a slight bobble.

 

Another thing about the subjectivity of the error call, which doesn't really have anything to do with this conversation but it irks me, is that an error call not only affects the defenders stats, but it affects the batter's stats in more ways than just BA, and it affects the pitcher's stats.