Is the actual rotation the worst in the last 10 Y?

[iortiz]

Tigers, NYY and Boston following very close Cueto: ESPNdeportes. While I love the idea of landinding Cueto, I think it's already too late.

[a700hitter]

Tigers, NYY and Boston following very close Cueto: ESPNdeportes. While I love the idea of landinding Cueto, I think it's already too late.

 

I think we could still turn it around. An ace pitcher helps prevent prolonged losing streaks. ER is a nice addition too. Also, Farrell should institute some fielding practice into the pregame routine. That had been the standard for decades. The hitting is starting to produce. The culture and expectation of losing needs to change.

[cp176]

While I can agree with about Hanley especially since he is DH in waiting, the Sandoval deal then and now makes little sense. Sandoval defensive skills were sliding before the trade hence SF's reluctance to sign him.

His size and weight means that his defensive skills as a third baseman will likely deteriorate more rapidly then someone with a different height and weight. Given his likely poor future conditioning he is a poor candidate for 1st once his 3rd base skills deteriorate. His future DH role is unlikely if one envisions Ramirez in that position in 2016 and beyond.

 

Furthermore there was ample reporting about Sandoval being well known for having relative poor regular season hitting numbers. Where he really shines is in the playoffs. The Sandoval signing only is rational if Cherrington believed he was an essential piece for success in the playoffs.

 

Given the current total dysfunction that is this club, such thinking can best be described as delusional on Cherrington's part. Which is perhaps why so many now question Cherrington competence to be a Major League GM.

 

I think that you must have had some information about Sandooval that I guess I was too lazy to look up. I guess I assume that they did their homework before they signed him. We needed a third baseman. Even though he is fat I still think that he looked like a definite upgrade. The signing of Hanley Ramirez came with many more question marks for me. When healthy, he can hit. That is good for sure but his track record has said that he has had some injury issues. We knew we weren't signing a fielder but nobody thought I think that it is safe to say that his fielding would be this bad. It is scary bad. His attitude has been questionable at every stop he has made. I was always a Johnny Gomes fan. I can't tell you how much i miss players like him now. Accept your role - show up to play hard everyday - have the character it takes to be a leader in the clubhouse. Also - I have asked this question before - why did we sign Castillo? He plays with Ramirez in our outfield while JBJ sits in Pawtucket.

[sk7326]

Tigers, NYY and Boston following very close Cueto: ESPNdeportes. While I love the idea of landinding Cueto, I think it's already too late.

 

1. It might be

2. The Red Sox have the prospect muscle to shock the Reds now with an offer and drive Cueto off the lot. Question is whether you do that. Right now this team has not shown enough to earn that sort of outlay.

[SoxnCycles]

1. It might be

2. The Red Sox have the prospect muscle to shock the Reds now with an offer and drive Cueto off the lot. Question is whether you do that. Right now this team has not shown enough to earn that sort of outlay.

 

Nope.

Unless they make some sort of stunning turnaround in the next week or two, they should be selling for decent prospects in July.

[cp176]

1. It might be

2. The Red Sox have the prospect muscle to shock the Reds now with an offer and drive Cueto off the lot. Question is whether you do that. Right now this team has not shown enough to earn that sort of outlay.

 

What prospect muscle are you talking about? i'm assuming you want them to keep Rodriguez.

[sk7326]

What prospect muscle are you talking about? i'm assuming you want them to keep Rodriguez.

 

Yes. I wouldn't do it - but the Red Sox have a stacked system (especially if the Reds don't mind Greenville) and can do an overpay. But yes, the Red Sox could make an overpay to get Cueto now. Yes, the Reds say they are holding him til the break - but that is only because they want a bidding war which the Red Sox could pre-empt. Note that I would not do it - both on principle and because the Sox are not good enough right now to deserve that sort of plunge.

 

For instance, the Orioles made a crappy baseball trade last year with the Red Sox to get a key bullpen cog. It was a poor baseball valuation, but an overpay driven by a team need and a club that could win it all with a key move here. They went all in. The Red Sox have the tools to make that sort of all-in trade but this team is not worth going all-in for. Not yet anyway.

[cp176]

Yes. I wouldn't do it - but the Red Sox have a stacked system (especially if the Reds don't mind Greenville) and can do an overpay. But yes, the Red Sox could make an overpay to get Cueto now. Yes, the Reds say they are holding him til the break - but that is only because they want a bidding war which the Red Sox could pre-empt. Note that I would not do it - both on principle and because the Sox are not good enough right now to deserve that sort of plunge.

 

For instance, the Orioles made a crappy baseball trade last year with the Red Sox to get a key bullpen cog. It was a poor baseball valuation, but an overpay driven by a team need and a club that could win it all with a key move here. They went all in. The Red Sox have the tools to make that sort of all-in trade but this team is not worth going all-in for. Not yet anyway.

 

If the Reds cannot afford to keep Cuerto, it makes sense to deal. With respect to the rest of our young prospects, you might be right - they may be good someday. Maybe not. Any team dealing would have to consider the risk involved. I have gotten to excited about our current group of prospects. I think that most teams would demand much more than the Red Sox would be willing to give up to get anyone of significance.

[sk7326]

If the Reds cannot afford to keep Cuerto, it makes sense to deal. With respect to the rest of our young prospects, you might be right - they may be good someday. Maybe not. Any team dealing would have to consider the risk involved. I have gotten to excited about our current group of prospects. I think that most teams would demand much more than the Red Sox would be willing to give up to get anyone of significance.

 

Both Jon Lester and David Price moved last year in deals with a grand total of two players with any sort of potential big league impact. (Smyly and Cespedes) If Cueto could secure two Top 100 prospects, that would be a massive haul. Note I wouldn't do it - but what it would take for the Reds to budge when you look at how much of a buyers market it is, it not a heck of a lot.

[Kimmi]

I am not sure what you mean by this. I am pretty sure that we could have topped a package of Brett Lawrie and Graveman. Toronto fleeced the hugely overrated Billy Beane.

 

First off, the Jays' package was Lawrie, Graveman, Sean Nolin, and Franklin Barreto. The Jays did not want to give up that much for Donaldson, but Beane insisted. It looks like the Jays still got the better of the deal, but I would not go so far as to say that Beane was fleeced.

 

Secondly, the timing of events is not known. Supposedly, Anthoupolos had called Beane earlier and asked about the availability of Donaldson, and Beane said no way. It was only about 2-3 days before the trade actually occurred that AA called Beane again and the talks got serious. After the Sox already signed Sandoval.

 

If Beane had planned to trade Donaldson all along, do you really think that Ben would be unaware of his availability? Beane, knowing that the Sox were in need of a 3rd baseman, surely would have contacted the Sox if Ben had not already contacted Beane.

[a700hitter]

First off, the Jays' package was Lawrie, Graveman, Sean Nolin, and Franklin Barreto. The Jays did not want to give up that much for Donaldson, but Beane insisted. It looks like the Jays still got the better of the deal, but I would not go so far as to say that Beane was fleeced.

 

Secondly, the timing of events is not known. Supposedly, Anthoupolos had called Beane earlier and asked about the availability of Donaldson, and Beane said no way. It was only about 2-3 days before the trade actually occurred that AA called Beane again and the talks got serious. After the Sox already signed Sandoval.

 

If Beane had planned to trade Donaldson all along, do you really think that Ben would be unaware of his availability? Beane, knowing that the Sox were in need of a 3rd baseman, surely would have contacted the Sox if Ben had not already contacted Beane.

I also don't think Beane would be stupid enough not to shop him to multiple teams.

[Kimmi]

While I can agree with about Hanley especially since he is DH in waiting, the Sandoval deal then and now makes little sense. Sandoval defensive skills were sliding before the trade hence SF's reluctance to sign him. His size and weight means that his defensive skills as a third baseman will likely deteriorate more rapidly then someone with a different height and weight. Given his likely poor future conditioning he is a poor candidate for 1st once his 3rd base skills deteriorate. His future DH role is unlikely if one envisions Ramirez in that position in 2016 and beyond.

 

Furthermore there was ample reporting about Sandoval being well known for having relative poor regular season hitting numbers. Where he really shines is in the playoffs. The Sandoval signing only is rational if Cherrington believed he was an essential piece for success in the playoffs.

 

Given the current total dysfunction that is this club, such thinking can best be described as delusional on Cherrington's part. Which is perhaps why so many now question Cherrington competence to be a Major League GM.

 

SF was not reluctant to re-sign Sandoval. They offered him $95 million and indicted that they were willing to go up to $100 million. SF wanted him back. Sandoval chose to come to the Sox rather than returning to SF.

[iortiz]

Kelly sucks, send him to BP already.

[iortiz]

We have to rebuild this rotation. I'm done with this crap.

 

Try to trade Miley and Porcello. Send Kelly to Pen. See what happens with Buch the res t of the season. Give to Masterson a couple starts, if he shits the bed, DFA. Call some arms from the farm and start making the diligences for possible 2016 FAs/trades.

[Elktonnick]

SF was not reluctant to re-sign Sandoval. They offered him $95 million and indicted that they were willing to go up to $100 million. SF wanted him back. Sandoval chose to come to the Sox rather than returning to SF.

 

SF had the same reluctant attitude toward Sandoval that Boston had toward Lester but for different reasons. If one reads the sports reporting out of SF at the time you will see their reluctance. They were concerned about his physical conditioning. In any case he is playing for the Red Sox now. The question for Boston is how to best utilize his talents. If he continues to make game costing errors at third the Red Sox will be forced to face some hard choices and third base won't be an option.

[SoxnCycles]

SF had the same reluctant attitude toward Sandoval that Boston had toward Lester but for different reasons. If one reads the sports reporting out of SF at the time you will see their reluctance. They were concerned about his physical conditioning. In any case he is playing for the Red Sox now. The question for Boston is how to best utilize his talents. If he continues to make game costing errors at third the Red Sox will be forced to face some hard choices and third base won't be an option.

 

The stuff I read said that Sandoval was unhappy with the physical regiment the Giants insisted on.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/pablo-sandoval-says-weight-regimen-contributed-to-him-leaving-giants-181734301.html

 

Pablo left money on the table from SF to sign with the Sox.

 

Doesn't sound like the same situation as Lester at all.

[Elktonnick]

Here is one of the reports I was referring to. Judge for yourself the similarities to the Lester situation. Boston had issues with Lester's age SF with Sandoval's physical conditioning,:

 

"After speaking with two sources, here’s what I’ve been able to put together:

The Giants offered Pablo the same contract given to Hunter Pence, five years at $90 million. Sandoval wanted that deal last Spring when Giants were justifiably suspicious about Pablo’s physical condition. But when that offer came after the World Series, Sandoval countered by asking for a seven year deal.

 

Sandoval was in Boston yesterday where I am told there is a 90 percent chance that he will sign with the Red Sox. The other 10 percent goes to the Toronto Blue Jays.

 

So what happened with the Giants? I’m told they were never his first choice, which is why he asked for seven years — a request the Giants were highly unlikely to accommodate. If the Giants want to get back in the race, they will have to up the ante, which team officials are considering."

Dennis O' Donnell CBS sports anchor in San Francisco.

 

Like a I said SF had similar concerns that Boston had with respect to Lester. SF's reluctance led to Sandoval moving on just like Lester only Lester is a classier guy than Panda whose later comments were seen as dissing his Giants team mates as he left.

[SoxnCycles]

Here is one of the reports I was referring to. Judge for yourself the similarities to the Lester situation. Boston had issues with Lester's age SF with Sandoval's physical conditioning,:

 

"After speaking with two sources, here’s what I’ve been able to put together:

The Giants offered Pablo the same contract given to Hunter Pence, five years at $90 million. Sandoval wanted that deal last Spring when Giants were justifiably suspicious about Pablo’s physical condition. But when that offer came after the World Series, Sandoval countered by asking for a seven year deal.

 

Sandoval was in Boston yesterday where I am told there is a 90 percent chance that he will sign with the Red Sox. The other 10 percent goes to the Toronto Blue Jays.

 

So what happened with the Giants? I’m told they were never his first choice, which is why he asked for seven years — a request the Giants were highly unlikely to accommodate. If the Giants want to get back in the race, they will have to up the ante, which team officials are considering."

Dennis O' Donnell CBS sports anchor in San Francisco.

 

Like a I said SF had similar concerns that Boston had with respect to Lester. SF's reluctance led to Sandoval moving on just like Lester only Lester is a classier guy than Panda whose later comments were seen as dissing his Giants team mates as he left.

 

Now you're reaching.

The Sox didn't want to give Lester a 6-7 year contract because he'd be 36 or 37 years old.

It had nothing to do with well or badly Lester took care of himself.

 

The Giants were never Sandoval's first choice because, among other things, they were on him about his weight and he didn't like it.

[Elktonnick]

Now you're reaching.

The Sox didn't want to give Lester a 6-7 year contract because he'd be 36 or 37 years old.

It had nothing to do with well or badly Lester took care of himself.

 

The Giants were never Sandoval's first choice because, among other things, they were on him about his weight and he didn't like it.

 

I never said that what I said was both the Sox and San Francisco were reluctant to sign these two guys for different reasons, one age the other physical conditioning. Sandoval had a similar reaction to SF's demands as Lester had to Boston's lowball offer. The fact that both got irritated with their former teams doesn't alter the fact that both teams had a reluctance to sign these guys when they had the opportunity to do so.

 

Some folks on this board just like to quibble for quibble sake.

[SoxnCycles]

I never said that what I said was both the Sox and San Francisco were reluctant to sign these two guys for different reasons, one age the other physical conditioning. Sandoval had a similar reaction to SF's demands as Lester had to Boston's lowball offer. The fact that both got irritated with their former teams doesn't alter the fact that both teams had a reluctance to sign these guys when they had the opportunity to do so.

 

Some folks on this board just like to quibble for quibble sake.

 

 

You can say that about any free agent, but what's the point?

And if you consider it quibbling, don't reply.

 

No one is forcing you to continue.

[Elktonnick]

You can say that about any free agent, but what's the point?

And if you consider it quibbling, don't reply.

 

No one is forcing you to continue.

 

What's the point indeed you would just misconstrue, misquote or misinterpret it anyway. "Vaya con dios"

[SoxnCycles]

What's the point indeed you would just misconstrue, misquote or misinterpret it anyway. "Vaya con dios"

 

Here's a tissue...

[sk7326]

SF was not reluctant to re-sign Sandoval. They offered him $95 million and indicted that they were willing to go up to $100 million. SF wanted him back. Sandoval chose to come to the Sox rather than returning to SF.

 

I still think Boston should look to deal Sandoval back to the Giants - Giants could use him, and the Sox' org muscle is at 3B.

[mvp 78]

I still think Boston should look to deal Sandoval back to the Giants - Giants could use him, and the Sox' org muscle is at 3B.

 

None of those guus would be ready until 2019 when you'd move Pablo off third anyway.

 

The move is to put Hanley at DH, retire Papi, sign 1b or LF bopper in offseason.

[Palodios]

How is Joe Kelly still in this rotation? I haven't been following the team so much, so maybe I missed it, but he's been terrible all year.

 

Its time to accept the Lackey trade was a failure and move him to the bullpen.

[User Name]

How is Joe Kelly still in this rotation? I haven't been following the team so much, so maybe I missed it, but he's been terrible all year.

 

Its time to accept the Lackey trade was a failure and move him to the bullpen.

 

The funny thing is that if he turns into a lights-out BP piece (a possibility with his velocity) the trade looks that much better. The Sox org is making some head-scratching decisions right now.

[User Name]

None of those guus would be ready until 2019 when you'd move Pablo off third anyway.

 

The move is to put Hanley at DH, retire Papi, sign 1b or LF bopper in offseason.

 

I'd move Panda to SF and Hanley to 3rd. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts he'd be way better there than in LF.

[wyo-sox]

I'm always amazed at how everyone would simply move and trade our players that are massively under performing. News flash, you can't trade players playing like garbage.

[User Name]

In Panda's case though, it may be possible. The Giants are getting nothing out of 3B, and it may realisticallly be the best-case scenario for all three parties involved.

[iortiz]

I'm always amazed at how everyone would simply move and trade our players that are massively under performing. News flash, you can't trade players playing like garbage.

 

Probably Panda. Porcello and Miley have zero value but if some team is willing eat their contract, do not hesitate. Vic, Papi, Masterson, Craig, Napoli are done.